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Old 23rd November 2016, 09:35   #1201
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
@hemanth.anand; Thanks for the full set. I am still to see the 500 note. I did manage to get a nice poster for the new currency. No writing / marking else the note ceases to be legal tender.
This "notification", its not there on the RBI website.

https://rbi.org.in/Scripts/BS_ViewCu...ification.aspx
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post

So it is not only clear that the distribution is going much slower than anyone told us it would, but the resultant chaos is not evenly distributed. Is that just a random thing? Bad planning? Or some sinister method behind the apparent madness? Your guess is as good as mine.
?
Pretty plain, actually. My office is located in an industrial part of noida. There are thousands of labourers and industrial workers here. In my immediate proximity, there are 3 atms, and one BOI branch. The Atms are sporadically crowded, of course. There are 10-15 people sitting at its steps perpetually, and when news comes of the cash van, the line starts following the curvature of the earth.
The branch is constantly crowded with 50 odd people at its gates. I'll try and get a pic.
In the meantime, one of my previous organizations has an atm on its premises. Those guys are withdrawing as per convenience. It was only the first few days where the ATM ran dry, but it is back to regular refills for now.

Last edited by mayankk : 23rd November 2016 at 09:44.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 09:35   #1202
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I live in one part of Bangalore, work in another and have colleagues all over the place, and there's a wide variance within the city.


Going by RBI's data that only a small fraction of withdrawn currency has been replaced in circulation, I wouldn't be quick to pass judgment one way or another based on a small sample size anywhere.

It's akin to saying world hunger doesn't exist because I'm well-fed and nobody I know is starving.
Good points; all of us are making observations that are isolated anecdotal ones. I could just as well say that there is no easing of the situation in Pune. When I went to HDFC to deposit half of my 500/1000 notes on hand that I estimated that I would not spend till Dec 20th, the bank had just 6 people in the deposits queue. The bank manager said, no one is here because I have no cash; the line starts at 7 am, the cash is over by noon, and many people in the line go home unserved. ATMs are shuttered for the same reason, no cash left in them.

So it is not only clear that the distribution is going much slower than anyone told us it would, but the resultant chaos is not evenly distributed. Is that just a random thing? Bad planning? Or some sinister method behind the apparent madness? Your guess is as good as mine.

The report that only 10% of the needed replacement has happened is indicative of no end visible yet to the tunnel the country is in. Allied to the reported fact: 600 million Indians have no bank account today, and most of them live in about 600,000 villages across the length and breadth of India. If anyone wants to dispute these facts, it merits doing that with counter facts.

I hear that soon to come is clampdown on rupee conversion to dollars, to prevent even what today is legitimate move of capital from the country. Probably only by private citizens; GOI will not dare to prevent FIIs from doing this. But who knows?
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Old 23rd November 2016, 09:41   #1203
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
Finally completed the set of the current valid currency notes in India! ₹2686 in total-All 2015 printed crisp notes
The ₹500 was nowhere to be seen in Bangalore but a colleague got it in an ATM in Delhi. He was looking for change and I gave him. I'm now left with only one note of ₹100 which is enough for me for at least another week

Attachment 1577797

Attachment 1577795

Attachment 1577796
Wow... though I had decided posting against anything in the thread, this collage of notes really excited me.
Any ideas on the best looking note now in circulation? I think the new 500 Rs note is high on aesthetics along with the evergreen 100 and one.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:08   #1204
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
Well, how about this. If there was a horse, this is from his mouth
Anyone with reasonable intelligence will realise that banning or rather replacing notes cannot stop "black" money, yes I'm using quotes because "black" is a much maligned aspect of money where people don't realise that yesterday's white is today's black and vice versa. A significant population of blue collar workers rely on pure cash for income. In order to curb "black" money, the only 2 ways to do it have already been mentioned by politician and statistician Subramaniyan Swamy and famous economist and finance guru Raghuram Rajan who left the RBI recently - decrease income tax to a bare minimum if not outright stop it.

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Originally Posted by sukhoi30 View Post
Yes, the more Rs. 500 notes in circulation, the more easy it will become. Infact, it will also help bring out more Rs 100 notes into the market given that many are hoarding these notes.
Hoarding is inevitable, seeing that an Orwellianesque situation is developing, I'm not against the government directive, and have been hardly affected by it.. but to the majority when a situation should suddenly arise when ATM's, banks and credit cards (for whatever reasons) are temporarily not accepted as has been the case 2 weeks ago, many people have suddenly realised the need to stockpile out of shock.. and its getting worse.

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Now thats a generalization if I have ever seen one. Sounds like an editorial.Whats your basis for this claim? The lines are still here. There is no true spirit being shown, its resignation to fate. I still have not been able to get cash even once since the "implementation". I am salaried, and this has been a hair pulling exercise from the start.
Absolutely, glad you had the courage to call this one out.. I'm just agreeing with you on this. Whenever a disaster or hardship is put forth the editorial will always say "people are bold", "people are resilient" and "the phoenix shall rise from the ashes". Makes for a good read but what choice do the people have other than to bear the brunt of what is basically, not in their hands?

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Marriages stalling, people dying at hospitals, people dying in queues! Terribly sad to see people suffer!

Heartbreaking to see people indifferent to the problems of rest of the country. Just because YOU get your money or stuff easily, doesn't mean others do too.
Agree with the first part, people are suffering. I feel though that sacrifices should've been made to avoid standing in line during rush hours as much as possible. I felt equally disturbed that things came to such a point that people felt the need to stand in line out of sheer desperation just to get money for necessities. I cant claim to understand the exact situation they were in, but for their own good maybe they should not have joined the line when it was at its worst, a meal or two lost would've been better. What the hospitals have done have only reinforced my hate for them, absolutely conscienceless, irresponsible and against the law.

The 2nd para, well is it in our control? We haven't created the problem.. it just affects each family differently. We're not "aam aadmi" or "common folk" as the government calls us or we ourselves like to be known as.. we're all different contributors to society, be it as employers, employees, tax payers, builders of the nation (the blue collar) and the most important - food banks of the nation (the famers), we should call ourselves "khaas aadmi" or "special people" for this very reason. We've all been affected by it in various ways and even in a move which was targeted directly at the uber-rich. We each survive in the way best known to us and the poor as usual gets the short end of the stick.

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Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
We in Chennai were discussing just today that last year we were battling a natural calamity and this year a man made one.
I was deeply disturbed by a whatsapp video of a police lathicharge outside a bank where a cop is indiscriminately hitting people and one of the folks receiving his blows was an elderly man in his 70s or so.
Orwellian State is here, and its cannot be more obvious than in crises. Iron-handed treatments shall be handed in the guise of controlling chaos and upkeep of equality.

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
A long time ago, after some reasonable success in a career in corporate finance and tax, I got bored of this non value adding activity. I was lucky to be able to make a lateral move that allowed me to be actively engaged in Indian operations of a machine tool manufacturer, on the shop floor.

Aim and shoot. No shoot and aim. Over and over, this was hammered in. What he was trying to get into our thick heads was: Any fool can shoot and aim, and claim a master archer's 10/10, and complete victory every time. All he has to do is run to where ever the arrow has landed and draw a perfect circle around it!!!
Feels a lot like my career moves so far, learnt everything that has become a compulsion these days.. like I.T in business (which I hated with every fibre of my being) and the mother-lode of one dimensional ideas - finance and accounting. Somehow the creative part of me which is pretty much who I am wanted to run from these aspects of business and play a more direct role in value-addition, marketing and macro-management.

I'm an operations guy as well, the thing is according to me it boils down to a very simple, intuitive, holistic approach.. stuff like TQM and zero-error approaches only lead to manipulation sooner or later in order to show that it "works" or that it's being done. What matters is that everyone tries their best and doesn't lie and just does what makes sense rather than work counter-intuitively to fulfil an agenda or just because it's written in the paper.

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I live in one part of Bangalore, work in another and have colleagues all over the place, and there's a wide variance within the city.

It's akin to saying world hunger doesn't exist because I'm well-fed and nobody I know is starving.
Wide variance indeed, personal banks and those having personal bankers did not suffer one bit and I know that for a fact. Its the same life repeating itself, those who possess paper money value subject to inflation/deflation/demonetisation erstwhile called promissory-notes subject to inflation/deflation/NOT subjected to demonetisation erstwhile called gold NOT subjected to inflation deflation OR demonetisation are at an advantage while the poor are.. as usual helpless.

As for your final statement, yes it does exist.. money is an imperfect concept, if everyone is rich then there'd be no resources left on this earth and if everyone is poor there wont be any control or incentive to work hard. Everyone being middle-class will lead to the unhappiest bunch of people since the stone-ages and is an impossible situation for the government to rig.

Lets just say I wish there were more equality on earth but there cannot be.. hence there'll be crimes, unethical businesses, drugs and the whole circus. Plastic money will lead to better control of people, but will not lead to perfect equality.

Last edited by dark.knight : 23rd November 2016 at 10:23.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:19   #1205
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I don't always agree with Yashwant Sinha but that doesn't stop me from reading what he has written here:
http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/indias-b...-lateststories
Essentially he says that we are going to face three big uncertainties and challenges caused by:
1. Jobless growth of the Indian economy, a ticking social time bomb for sure
2. Trump and his policies
3. Interest rate hikes by the US Fed that could suck out FII and direct investment in India; a subset of 2, actually.

He misses another one that has just again surfaced with the Indian army's attacks today: possible war with Pakistan.

So his point is, gently made, given that he is still a ruling party member: was there a need to add another challenge, and are you sure you are well prepared to meet all of these together at the same time?

Food for thought.

PS: oops, I missed mentioning here the other big challenge that he has identified: GST implementation

Last edited by Sawyer : 23rd November 2016 at 10:25. Reason: PS
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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:38   #1206
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I have a very different query.
My shippie (few Captains & one Engineer) friends had joined ships few days or few weeks before the implementation came in force.
Six of them have about 10k-15K with them in old currency notes. Two of these colleagues are on ships with foreign nationalities or else they could have arranged to send the cash back with people signing-off from their ships. Others are also stuck as there is no crew sign-off planned before next year.

Many shippie's (mostly who live inland's) keep certain amount of cash so that immediate requirements, upon landing in India, are taken care of.

Will the banks accept EXCHANGE post 30th December knowing well that this kind of situation was beyond control of these NRE's?
They can show Departure & Arrival stamps on Passports to substantiate their claim.

I have suggested them to look for SBI branches in the foreign port countries that they may be visiting or approach local Indian consulates/Embassies in respective port countries.

More suggestions are welcome.

Regards-Sonu

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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:48   #1207
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Will the banks accept EXCHANGE post 30th December knowing well that this kind of situation was beyond control of these NRE's?
They can show Departure & Arrival stamps on Passports to substantiate their claim.
My understanding is yes. And they can even deposit the money with the RBI, by filing a detailed affidavit. Genuine people who can show proof for them having the now valueless currency can always approach the banks. For such people RBI has given time till March 31st, 2017.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 10:59   #1208
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post

I don't always agree with Yashwant Sinha but that doesn't stop me from reading what he has written here:
http://www.ndtv.com/opinion/indias-b...-lateststories

So his point is, gently made, given that he is still a ruling party member: was there a need to add another challenge, and are you sure you are well prepared to meet all of these together at the same time?
I'm not sure if Mr.Sinha/NDTV changed the article content since the time you posted, because I couldn't find a direct relation to the "gently made point" mentioned in your post.

I have my own doubts if Mr.Sinha will agree to the inference made out of his article.

Selective reporting (err and quoting ) is the favourite past time now.

Last edited by kiku007 : 23rd November 2016 at 11:00.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:20   #1209
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Selective reporting (err and quoting ) is the favourite past time now.
Lol; I have not quoted him at all, that inference was drawn by me from reading between the lines and knowing what he has been saying in the last two years. And I did leave a link to the full report.

It is quite possibly my inference was wrong; I will leave it now to all interested to judge for themselves - by now, for the first time, exactly quoting the report via a cut/paste:

"Since these disruptions could be anticipated, one would like to assume that government would have prepared for them and would take appropriate steps at the appropriate time. But the massive disruption, entirely unexpected, which will be caused to the economy in the short term as a result of demonetization and the question mark which hangs on its long-term benefits is the fourth disruption with which the Indian economy is faced today. Only the future will tell how we shall cope with this disruption. It is also difficult to tell how many out of the four will be creative disruptions with a beneficial impact, and how many will be destructive with adverse impact."

For clarification, the disruption he refers to in the first sentence are the other ones before demonetisation; the massive one he refers to in the second sentence, is demonetisation. Ditto the one he calls the fourth disruption later in the same sentence. Ditto the one in the following sentence.

I stand by what I read between his lines; anyone else is free to make whatever inference they choose to from his words. Sometimes, silence speaks louder than words, to me at any rate.

Fair enough? Of course, I can't speak to whether NDTV has misreported him; I doubt that, it is an article he has written under his name.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:46   #1210
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

I just noticed that all notes are issued by RBI except for the one Rupee note. That has been issued by the Government of india.

I went back and checked through the history of currency notes in India - all of them have the One Rupee issued by the govt. and not by the RBI.

Interesting tidbit. Need to use my google-fu to see why this is.

Cheers
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Old 23rd November 2016, 11:52   #1211
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I just noticed that al---------snip-----ee why this is.

Cheers
I think its the one rupee note that you buy with all other notes. Concept.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:22   #1212
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. No writing / marking else the note ceases to be legal tender.
Sir, Is this some latest update ?

Last time in Dec 2015, RBI had denied this and confirmed it to be social media rumor.


PR140021A3C502AFEE4F4AAEE73E850E048343.pdf

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Old 23rd November 2016, 12:25   #1213
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I don't know, why Gandhiji suddenly decided to smile by turning to his left on the new ₹ 500 and ₹ 2 k notes, when he was smiling by turning to his right on the other denomination notes. There must be some reason for this! Similarly, while the images of the national flower, the Indian lotus - also the election symbol of the ruling party, which may be just a coincidence! - and the national bird, the Indian peacock are printed below the Mangalyaan image on the ₹ 2 k notes, the national animal, the Royal Bengal tiger is left out to accommodate the elephant. Again, there must be a reason for this. Mamata Banerjee has already questioned the omission of the Royal Bengal tiger on the new notes: http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/why-n...nerjee-1628332. The Roayl Bengal tiger has already become extinct on the new currency notes.

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Old 23rd November 2016, 13:24   #1214
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Default Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

If you are talking about the same video which was all over on TV then you would have noticed that the laṭhi with which the cop was hitting was a weak one which was broken at the end, so it was just to put a fear rather than to break bones. You also get disturbed when a person breaking traffic signal being caught and challaned for merely trying to drive his own vehicle on his own road.
At the same time your blood also might have boiled when you were in queue and seeing any irresponsible person breaking it or bypassing it happening again and again and you would be cursing the security and management for not controlling it. All in all the purpose of the video is served, that is to create sensationalism.

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We in Chennai were discussing just today that last year we were battling a natural calamity and this year a man made one.
I was deeply disturbed by a whatsapp video of a police lathicharge outside a bank where a cop is indiscriminately hitting people and one of the folks receiving his blows was an elderly man in his 70s or so.
I have read lacs of post all through my life complaining uneducated politicians, so given a choice I would prefer an selected but educated rather than vice versa. Even our previous PM was selected one.

Coming to BTT I want to know in detail the 18 month transition process suggested for removing all the notes of higher denominations than Rs 50/- as I couldn't find as of yet.

Also isn't the BTT is on presumption that entire country would be depending on digital technology by way of all the transaction above 2000 be done by way of bank which is a very bold move.

Also if one interprets the current Govt has not followed the steps suggested by Arthakranti but kind of adopted it in the reverse way ie 18 month process of transition after announcement but Govt started almost 18 months of transition before announcement by way of opening Jan Dhan accounts, granting licences to payment banks, etc. Considering the over-smartness of our public and double over-smartness of the black money hoarders and their consultants I think the Govts method seems appropriate. Only thing where Govt faltered is by announcing it before the planned date (if that's true). But think and tell if the Govt trusted its people blindly and allowed them to exchange and people started making that as a profession until the indelible ink was used, who is to be blamed Govt or Public who allowed themselves to be used when given an honest chance by the Govt.

All said and done if the Govt doesn't follows it up with Judicial and Police reforms and makes strict mechanism to deals with complaints on bribes, corruption, etc by Govt employees, then the sacrifice of public will go down the drain.

Last edited by carwatcher : 23rd November 2016 at 13:30.
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Old 23rd November 2016, 13:52   #1215
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So after creating a havoc for more than two weeks, the honorable minister realized the inconvenience when it was dished out to him.

Please see the link below.
http://www.ndtv.com/karnataka-news/h...karnataka-news
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