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Old 25th November 2016, 16:00   #1336
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by sachinpk View Post
From what I hear, next in line would be the Real Estate segment.
.
.

You may never know, Gold could be another area which the current government has in its target.
Well, there are a few areas that need tightening. Work has already begun on the real estate segment. The Real Estate Regulatory Bill has already been passed. Many states have ratified it and maybe in the next few months each state will have to form a Regulatory Authority to address the concerns of buyers. This law has several provisions that protect the buyers from several situations.
The Benami Property Bill has come into effect from Nov 1st. No one noticed this announcement closely since the demonetization. This gives the Govt. absolute powers to confiscate benami properties without any compensation. I think this will be the next in line as there are several flats/properties held by many people in benami.
Regarding gold, one thought going around is a freeze on "gold import" at least for some time. Or maybe increase customs duty in such a way that the import will be less attractive.
Govt. already have made it mandatory for jewelers to take the PAN card details of customers who are buying jewellery above a certain value. Govt. has also introduced certain schemes like Gold monetisation scheme, sovereign gold bonds etc. so that households can be encouraged to take the gold out for circulation rather than hold it.
If things go as planned or as I can see being planned, you will see India as one of the countries with less or nominal tax and more progress.
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Old 25th November 2016, 16:13   #1337
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
........
Precedent 1: A much more honest government that does not cheat us by squandering our taxes by the enormous waste it is today guilty of. And of dishonestly building infrastructure that is always inadequate, and always breaking down. Today, I hate paying my taxes, because the larger part of it is eaten by parasites in government, that feed on us like leeches. I pay in full, because I have no choice, or because I am a coward.
...........
Sir, I have seen you repeating this argument in few posts on this thread.
I have a few questions:
1. How much time one should expect to give to a new government to clean up the dis-honest mess
2. What in your opinion is more prominent cause of dis-honest government/governance - politicians, officers and bureaucracy, slow and in-effective judiciary, ineffective and inadequate police force, expenditure we end up making for defense?
3. What country can you offer as example, that can boast of an honest government on all counts - like purposefully using tax money, not favoring specific community/region, not violating human rights, and also not having significant income from sources other than taxes.

[OT] whenever I see this point being made against taxation, I remember famous book by Ayn Rand - 'Atlas Shrugged'. Though with slightly different context, that novel also made argument against taxes - in dramatic and idealist manner.

Last edited by JLS : 25th November 2016 at 16:23.
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Old 25th November 2016, 16:37   #1338
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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There has been really huge deposits in the Jan Dhan accounts which were meant to be used by the poor. Ideally only their subsidies (and basic savings if any) could have landed up there. Now black money hoarders had used these poor people to put black money on these accounts. ...
Hmm! Really huge? It seems Rs 21000 crores have been deposited in 24 crores Jan Dhan account [1].

Deposit per account = 21000 / 24 = Rs 875 per account

Even if we discount 50% Jan Dhan accounts as dormant that will make the deposit to be Rs 1750 per account. Apparently, the taxmen are already training their guns for Jan Dhan account holders [2]. Let God save this country from misplaced (or intentional?) priority of the taxmen!

Although, I would agree that there have been some misuses of these accounts. However, as a whole, this seems to be a classic example of the adage: "penny wise pound foolish".


[1] http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/55582633.cms

[2] http://www.hindustantimes.com/busine...Cg1iZRdBP.html

Last edited by gmhossain : 25th November 2016 at 16:42.
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Old 25th November 2016, 16:48   #1339
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by JLS View Post
1. How much time one should expect to give to a new government to clean up the dis-honest mess
2. What in your opinion is more prominent cause of dis-honest government/governance - politicians, officers and bureaucracy, slow and in-effective judiciary, ineffective and inadequate police force, expenditure we end up making for defense?
3. What country can you offer as example, that can boast of an honest government on all counts - like purposefully using tax money, not favoring specific community/region, not violating human rights, and also not having significant income from sources other than taxes.
Excellent questions:
1. As much time as any government till now has received? Even the ruling party, in addition to over 2 years this time has had a 5 years spell earlier? The point is - make a sincere start - that doesn't take time surely. Indians are patient if that is done and progress is made every day. Well, Indians are patient anyway, that is another story.
2. No idea, I could very well say all of them equally so. But in any company, the buck always starts and stops with the CEO. And the first person in politics to say this publicly was a US President many years ago. Always, the leadership sets the tone; be it company or country.
3. That one is very easy. Singapore and Switzerland, top of my head, so an Asian country can also do it, and in 1960, Singapore was a hot, humid, mosquito infested backwater, and little more than a village, with racial conflict issues. Sweden? Take the UN compiled list of the ten most honest countries in the world for ten names of what you want to know, because in the long run an honest country cannot have a dishonest government and vice versa. Denmark tops that list, by the way.
PS: I have read all of Ayn Rand books decades ago, including her non fiction books; very clear thinker, but her recommendations are not suitable for places that has as many structural and historical inequalities as we do. If I remember my Rand correctly.

Last edited by Sawyer : 25th November 2016 at 16:53. Reason: PS
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Old 25th November 2016, 17:14   #1340
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by gmhossain View Post
Apparently, the taxmen are already training their guns for Jan Dhan account holders [2]. Let God save this country from misplaced (or intentional?) priority of the taxmen!
Das said the legitimate Jan Dhan account holders would not be put to any kind of difficulty. However, the source of deposits of above Rs 50,000 into these accounts will be verified, he added. - seems fair to me.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-...WE4ZHUrgP.html

In the HT link you gave, it states
"A third of these accounts have received deposits of ₹50,000 in the last few days — the maximum permissible limit for such accounts without quoting the Permanent Account Number (PAN)."

Thats not a small number by any means. Good to see IT dept is not sleeping.

Last edited by heavenlybull : 25th November 2016 at 17:22.
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Old 25th November 2016, 17:48   #1341
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My sister stays in US and has about 1.5L worth of demonetised currency denominations.
She wont be able to travel to India before 31st for getting this exchange done.
Are there any options for NRIs - I couldn't find any information in this regards

And also, you can bring back only Rs. 25,000 cash per person. So, getting Rs. 1.5 lac on one person could be be risk. You may have to split between 6 people to minimize the risk. You can exchange the demonetised currency in RBI branches till 31st Mar 2017 ( at least that's the deal as of now).
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Old 25th November 2016, 18:19   #1342
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

NITI Ayog member Bibek Debroy's take on de-monetization

http://www.openthemagazine.com/artic...on-demythified

To quote from the article:
Quote:
It is only one of various steps, not the only one, and it isn’t meant to resolve all ‘black’ problems under the sun. The stock of ‘black’ wealth isn’t necessarily in the form of cash. It can be in the form of gold, real estate and other property. That kind of non-cash ‘black’ will also be addressed through other measures.
Its a very good article. The author is a top economist and policy guy. It is a good read.
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Old 25th November 2016, 19:15   #1343
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

A bit of humor from Faking News - Friday Faking Release: Gayab

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Old 25th November 2016, 20:41   #1344
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Slow down son. You just gave me a heart attack. My current (pre Nov 8th) method.

1. Ask my accountant to make check for cash we need for the month (usually 20-40K)
2. Sign check
3. Accountant sends someone to bank and draws cash and gives me cash and takes signature that I have received cash.
4. I distribute half to wife and keep half and then spend cash.
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I envy the younger crowd who are already "credit literate". So to the younger set here, if you see any grey haired people struggling with this "new universe" please assist them. Thanks.
navin, delighted to hear I am not alone!!! Thank you for bringing some lightness to this thread of gloom and doom. Now let me go learn PayTM, VPA, UPI and other exciting digital age exoticas.
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Old 25th November 2016, 20:50   #1345
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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You have a knack of answering your own questions
Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I don't blame govt for being dishonest. They didn't drop out of the sky, they're citizens just like us so we the citizens are the govt. ultimately and the corruption is ours too.
Then the black trade and dishonesty of India is an infinite loop. We will never break out of it. Leaders are corrupt --> So can I. When will it end? Can we as a nation not hard reset our whole system. I think that is what BJP is trying. But as I mentioned, these are mechanical metrics, how to change us mentally?

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Trying to take the path of least resistance/difficulty is a natural tendency that isn't limited to humans alone, just look around and there's an example of that pretty much anywhere you look.
Understandable. What makes Taxes painful? Greed. Anything else. Do people refrain from giving taxes because, they know they will be gobbled by others OR it is pure desire for more. Now, I am not telling India to go out and become 'Nam era hippies, but India has become nothing less than naughty devils.

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What would we rather have? Simple comprehensive laws diligently enforced, or complex laws that are neither practically understandable nor diligently enforceable?
The former of course. I agree. The taxation system, should be streamlined. But again, I doubt this is the reason for people refraining.

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
I keep thinking back to the golden rule of writing user manuals. The best user manual is the one the dumbest of customers can follow to achieve the intended end result. Something I believe is applicable to every organised endeavour, including governance.
Perfectly, said sir!
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Old 25th November 2016, 21:44   #1346
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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... In the HT link you gave, it states
"A third of these accounts have received deposits of ₹50,000 in the last few days — the maximum permissible limit for such accounts without quoting the Permanent Account Number (PAN)."

Thats not a small number by any means. Good to see IT dept is not sleeping.
Sorry Sir! please check the basic math before quoting from our media.

A third of 24 crores = 8 crores

If 8 crores Jan Dhan accounts have received Rs 50000 each then the total deposit would be = 400000 crore = 4 lakh crores AND NOT 21000 crores!

Secondly, unless current Income-Tax Act is amended, income below 2.5 lakh in a FY won't require one to file IT return nor one needs to disclose their source income. And if I-T act is amended retrospectively, then it would be applicable to every citizen of the country not just Jan Dhan account holders. In the court of Law, a Jan Dhan account holder has same legal standing as you or me.
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Old 25th November 2016, 22:22   #1347
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Sorry Sir! please check the basic math before quoting from our media.
They have given out the figures today:
Quote:

Uttar Pradesh has the highest number of account holders to the tune of 3.79 crore and therefore highest deposits of Rs 10,670.62 crore. It is followed by West Bengal with 2.44 accounts and deposits of Rs 7,826.44 crore. Rajasthan comes at the third spot with 1.89 crore accounts and the deposit in these accounts totals to Rs 5,345.57 crore while Bihar with 2.62 crore accounts have deposits of Rs 4,912.79 crore as of November 16.

Out of 25.58 crore accounts, 5.98 crore (23.02 per cent) are zero balance accounts
source
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Old 25th November 2016, 22:59   #1348
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Sorry Sir! please check the basic math before quoting from our media.
Haha yup that was a blunder.

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Originally Posted by gmhossain View Post
Secondly, unless current Income-Tax Act is amended, income below 2.5 lakh in a FY won't require one to file IT return nor one needs to disclose their source income.
Yes, probably why gov has capped jan dhan deposits at 50k, instead.
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Old 25th November 2016, 23:01   #1349
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And now this Defects in new Rs 500 notes, RBI blames it on rush

Quote:
In one case, a resident of Delhi told the newspaper that the note had visible shadows of every object, including the image of Gandhi and the national emblem. Some of the items on the note were also placed differently.

In another case, a resident of Gurugram noticed that the size of borders were unequal in two notes. In a third case, a Mumbai resident was given two notes in which the colour of one note was lighter than the other.

Commenting on the discrepancies, RBI spokesperson Alpana Killawala told TOI, “It is likely that notes with printing defect has got released due to the current rush. However, people can freely accept such a note in transaction or return it to RBI.”
So now counterfeiters can make mistakes and blame it on RBI

This is the beginning of bad times for RBI
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Old 26th November 2016, 06:52   #1350
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I read the news that Govt is going have a 60% one time penalty now to make the cash white. Let's see how many opt for the same.
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