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Old 5th December 2016, 17:34   #1471
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

On a related note, I actually appreciate that my bank (ICICI, Jayanagar 7th block) has been consistently refusing favors to 'privilege banking' customers for cash-related transactions since the demonetization drive began. Unsure if it's bank policy or individual branch managers' call.

I've only been to the bank once since Nov 8th (called in advance to know what to expect) and don't plan to visit again anytime soon, but it's disheartening to see people use their 'privileged customer' status to avoid inconvenience when they're probably among the least affected, and then preach 'do it for the greater good' sermons from their assumed moral high horses.

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Old 5th December 2016, 17:45   #1472
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
On a related note,........ it's disheartening to see people use their 'privileged customer' status to avoid inconvenience when they're probably among the least affected, and then preach 'do it for the greater good' sermons from their assumed moral high horses.
+1

Nothing worse than armchair experts/critics and their hypocritical attitude.

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Unsure if it's bank policy or individual branch managers' call.
Not a bank policy but most probably a fair individual at work as Manager.

Last edited by Puneet.S : 5th December 2016 at 17:51.
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Old 5th December 2016, 18:52   #1473
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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How does 2 lakh crore remain benami? With that kind of amount declared, IT department will camp in your home and would want to know the source of every income.
Of course the 2 lakh crore is crazy stunt, totally insane. I cannot fathom what the motive was behind such declaration. No doubt the identities provided in the declaration are not traceable anywhere. The address is fake, so must be the identities.

The other one i.e. the 13k crores was more in line with sanity.
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Old 5th December 2016, 19:38   #1474
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

So it looks like what started off as a black money unearthing scheme has become a currency digitization scheme. And the ones benefiting from this move are the payment wallets, credit card companies and banks. What is funnier is that some people (whom I know) who used to think that credit cards are evil have suddenly realized that plastic money is the answer to the nation's ills.

Have anybody realized that suddenly you have brought another entity or two in your purchases? What used to be a transaction between the shopkeeper and me ,when I bought a kilo of onions, is not the same anymore. PayTM/JioMoney/VISA now gets to play a part. PayTM will now get a rupee from the shopkeeper, which the shopkeeper is not going to bear. Go figure.

If someone is claiming that the exercise was intended to digitize currency more that unearth black money, am gonna suspect some nastier motives.
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Old 5th December 2016, 19:48   #1475
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
On a related note, I actually appreciate that my bank (ICICI, Jayanagar 7th block) has been consistently refusing favors to 'privilege banking' customers for cash-related transactions since the demonetization drive began. Unsure if it's bank policy or individual branch managers' call.

I've only been to the bank once since Nov 8th (called in advance to know what to expect) and don't plan to visit again anytime soon, but it's disheartening to see people use their 'privileged customer' status to avoid inconvenience when they're probably among the least affected, and then preach 'do it for the greater good' sermons from their assumed moral high horses.
I am going to ignore the portion in bold as a gross generalization and instead share the other side of the coin for the rest of the post.

1. The whole demonetization thing is a temporary phenomenon and would play out over approx 2 months. Banks are businesses (the private ones are more so). Anybody who is ignoring their own long-term 'customers' during this temporary phase would have to pay for that harakiri once this is all over.

2. The additional hours bank employees have put in, the additional people they temporarily deployed, the resources and money spent on endless refilling of ATMs... is the govt paying the banks for that? I doubt! The transaction fees at ATMs have also been stopped for the time being I believe. I understand that the overhead of exchange transactions from people with no bank accounts has to be shared by the whole banking network for the sake of the nation. But what about people who have a bank account in one bank and still using other bank's ATMs as well as counters? From a bank's perspective, aren't they providing lower service level to their own customers because they need to handle customers from other banks who are standing in their queues (at ATMs for withdrawal as well as at branch counters for exchange)? They should still do it, because the Govt/RBI wants them to, but do you blame them for showing a little bit of bias for customers of their own bank and that specific branch?

Last edited by SDP : 5th December 2016 at 19:50.
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Old 5th December 2016, 20:14   #1476
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Anybody who is ignoring their own long-term 'customers' during this temporary phase would have to pay for that harakiri once this is all over.
I am one of those privilege banking customers, who has NOT been able to make use of any privileges while trying to withdraw any cash from the ICICI Bank. So much so, when I went to deposit cash after standing in a queue for over 45mins, the teller told me that I am not KYC verified, while I had got my KYC checked at the same branch 3 months back for NPS and they said everything in order and they even tried up selling their products to me.

Long story short, I am seriously contemplating shifting my salary account to a different bank, someone who doesn't just say you are privileged customer, but go the extra mile to make you feel one. Sadly, ICICI doesn't do it.

On the whole larger issue of DEMO, I support the thought behind it, but absolutely loathe the implementation. i mean its almost a month and most of the ATM's are either still shut or only dispense Rs.2k note.

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Old 5th December 2016, 20:15   #1477
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I am going to ignore the portion in bold as a gross generalization and instead share the other side of the coin for the rest of the post.......
No Sir, it's not a gross generalization, this is first hand feedback from branch managers in multiple banks my family transacts with (priority banking or equivalent customers in most cases), I witnessed a few instances personally when I did line up at the bank (including some really unruly behavior from apparently well-educated people while others waited patiently in queue), and there's more than one sample of this behavior on this very thread (including a moderator actually advising people to use that 'option' if they can). I'd rather not say more than that, it's pretty self-evident so let's leave it aside because one can always argue I don't have enough of a sample size. Fair enough, but getting a true representative sample in India is arguably literally impossible.

I am one of those 'long-term customers' as you put it, and I've given my specific branch (and the bank in general) significant business over the years.

I called my bank to gauge the situation because I didn't really 'need' to visit in a hurry so was more than happy to go at a later time when they were less hassled.

That being said, I could've easily played my 'privileged customer' card and jumped the queue, and while my specific branch manager requested that they'd prefer to treat everyone fairly, I guess he'd have relented under pressure from a long-term customer they didn't want to piss off (and there were plenty of those in line).

I haven't done anything noteworthy, just doing my bit not to add to a chaotic situation, and I find it ironic that people are reluctant to practice what they preach and believe it's their right not to be inconvenienced because they provide more 'business' (i.e. have more money than the next guy).

Isn't that attitude part of what that got us into this mess in the first place? And yes, THIS was a generalization as there's plenty of other reasons for the economic mess we find ourselves in as a country.

We want the country to come together for a common cause, but don't want to temporarily give up 'special status' even in a bank queue. Says a lot about all of us (myself included).

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 5th December 2016 at 20:27.
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Old 5th December 2016, 21:19   #1478
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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Originally Posted by Chetan_Rao View Post
No Sir, it's not a gross generalization, this is first hand feedback from branch managers in multiple banks my family transacts with (priority banking or equivalent customers in most cases), I witnessed a few instances personally when I did line up at the bank (including some really unruly behavior from apparently well-educated people while others waited patiently in queue)...
I am not trying to defend the behaviour of those unruly folks. All I am trying to highlight is the bank's dilemma - to serve the customers because of whom exist OR to serve the random folks they have never seen in their life but are standing in line at their branch with 4500Rs in old currency in hand.


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I am one of those 'long-term customers' as you put it, and I've given my specific branch (and the bank in general) significant business over the years.

...
That being said, I could've easily played my 'privileged customer' card and jumped the queue, and while my specific branch manager requested that they'd prefer to treat everyone fairly, I guess he'd have relented under pressure from a long-term customer they didn't want to piss off (and there were plenty of those in line).
Quite good of you to have thought logically and rationally. Even I haven't been to any bank or any ATM since 8th night.

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We want the country to come together for a common cause, but don't want to temporarily give up 'special status' even in a bank queue. Says a lot about all of us (myself included).
Again, I am NOT talking from the people perspective, (privileged customers or otherwise). I don't believe banks are handling their own customers fairly enough in these testing times. They need to understand that RBI, Govt and all the non-customers who are queuing up are going to forget the national service' the bank is doing since last few weeks, but their own customers are not going to forget the cold shoulder they got. I would have preferred to see banks segregating their own customers (and possibly even their own branch's customers) and served them from a different counter (NOT a dedicated counter). Then this 'unruly' behaviour where people are demanding their right wouldn't have arisen in the first place.

Last edited by SDP : 5th December 2016 at 21:23.
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Old 5th December 2016, 22:02   #1479
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.... I would have preferred to see banks segregating their own customers (and possibly even their own branch's customers) and served them from a different counter (NOT a dedicated counter). Then this 'unruly' behaviour where people are demanding their right wouldn't have arisen in the first place.
I can only quote my small example but my bank branch actually did just that from day one, and I can only assume it was the manager's call.

There were separate queues for branch/bank customers and general public outside, and separate duly-marked counters inside, plus junior staff handing out necessary forms to and answering questions from the queue and trying to manage tempers and expectations. Cash in various denominations was also rationed out to service as many people as possible, instead of handing over whatever denominations each customer demanded on a first comer basis. All done with a firm but polite word.

Still, one well-dressed chap arriving in a relatively expensive car walked right past the eager-to-help staff up to the front door, asked for the manager and demanded his 'privileged customer' status be acknowledged and serviced without delay.

The manager offered him a seat to wait in his own cabin but expressed his inability to let the gentleman jump the queue given the circumstances. What followed can't be quoted verbatim here but suffices to say riled the crowd enough that the chap was a serious contender for a beat-down.

The manager wisely got security to escort the chap inside while this guy was still mouthing profanities. I asked the manager about it later but he shrugged it off as part of his job. I saw a few more such 'customers' come in but none thankfully got as out of hand.

The senior gentleman ahead of me watching all this just shook his head in disappointment, and I hung my head in shame, unwillingly part of an entire generation largely devoid of common decency and patience.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 5th December 2016 at 22:27.
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Old 5th December 2016, 22:08   #1480
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Originally Posted by dass View Post

Long story short, I am seriously contemplating shifting my salary account to a different bank, someone who doesn't just say you are privileged customer, but go the extra mile to make you feel one. Sadly, ICICI doesn't do it.
The grass is always greener on the other side. I'd say that you grin and bear it. Unless you are a High net worth individual, these temporary elevations in customer status are ethereal.

I'm a so called Privilleged customer of HDFC, but it stops at the title and is not worth anything. FOrget getting favours done during this time of chaos, when i called up their priority banking number to get my name rectified in the credit card, a very suave gentleman advised me to go to the branch and have it changed.

However, they do remind me that i'm therir most preferred customer while trying to slip in unwanted Personal Loans or Insurance products


Cest la vie
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Old 6th December 2016, 11:14   #1481
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Default Re: Government scraps Rs 500 and Rs 1000 notes!

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The senior gentleman ahead of me watching all this just shook his head in disappointment, and I hung my head in shame, unwillingly part of an entire generation largely devoid of common decency and patience.
Agree with this. Just quote an incident in my college days - days when we all stood in a line to book train tickets.

So I am standing for about 40 mins and when my turn is about to come, this young chap comes up to me and says, 'Dude, can I stand in front of you, as I don't want to stand in a line' and these things were very easy to do those days. I just asked him are the people standing in line stupid? And with that, the fellow quickly left the scene red faced while the 60 year old chap appreciated what I had just done.

We should be sensitive enough to other people and not try to brag and show off, that's something I find alien in quite a few people. We all hate when our cars are stopped for a minister passing by, while we are proposing exactly the same. For anyone stating, you can become a privileged customer, my answer is you can become a politician (or a minister) too.

It's a conscious choice we all make - exactly a choice like, if others are jumping a red light, should we do the same too?

Lets be good humans first - rest of it can come later. (That is also my signature )

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Old 6th December 2016, 13:19   #1482
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Finally used my credit in the only place I've never used it, a petrol pump and sure enough there is a 2.87% charge added. This is why I hate this cashless nonsense, you get ripped off because you can't access your own money. The rate charged is nearly what you pay for not paying up your credit card bill. One full tank means nearly the cost of 1 litre has to be paid for the benefit of swiping the card, mostly done by idiots who don't know how to handle the machine, a replacement card will be another 100/-.

I see a lot of ATMs have no queues these days as the banks have stopped refilling them and shuttered nearly all stand alone ones. The establishments that have got hold of cash ,disable their machines and get you to pay in cash, so where I used to get a discount, I now pay full price(credit card dining offers). The credit card networks are absolutely hopeless, most are incapable of handling current volume and you have to swipe on 3 machines before something works. I am not going into my experience with digital wallets, useless and unreliable, but touted as the panacea for the current mess.
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Old 6th December 2016, 14:31   #1483
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Finally used my credit in the only place I've never used it, a petrol pump and sure enough there is a 2.87% charge added. This is why I hate this cashless nonsense, you get ripped off because you can't access your own money. The rate charged is nearly what you pay for not paying up your credit card bill. One full tank means nearly the cost of 1 litre has to be paid for the benefit of swiping the card, mostly done by idiots who don't know how to handle the machine, a replacement card will be another 100/-.
You mean you used your credit card? The transaction fee on petrol and diesel payments via credit card has been there for a long, long time, that's why the Credit Card thread on Team-BHP is full of questions regarding cards that waive off the fuel surcharge.

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I see a lot of ATMs have no queues these days as the banks have stopped refilling them and shuttered nearly all stand alone ones. The establishments that have got hold of cash ,disable their machines and get you to pay in cash, so where I used to get a discount, I now pay full price(credit card dining offers). The credit card networks are absolutely hopeless, most are incapable of handling current volume and you have to swipe on 3 machines before something works. I am not going into my experience with digital wallets, useless and unreliable, but touted as the panacea for the current mess.
Apparently the ₹4.7 crore seized recently mainly consisting of ₹2,000 notes was procured in connivance with the ATM refilling companies who chose not to fill the ATMs, but diverted that currency instead.

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Originally Posted by SDP View Post
I am going to ignore the portion in bold as a gross generalization and instead share the other side of the coin for the rest of the post.

1. The whole demonetization thing is a temporary phenomenon and would play out over approx 2 months. Banks are businesses (the private ones are more so). Anybody who is ignoring their own long-term 'customers' during this temporary phase would have to pay for that harakiri once this is all over.
Agree with you. Ignoring long-term and priority-banking customers and treating them the same as walk-ins is plain suicide in the long run for the business of the bank.

I see many here have objected to priority services being provided to priority-banking customers. So let me get this straight, someone maintains an account with a bank requiring ₹2 lakhs AQB, hardly imposes on the bank all this while, yet the one time out of necessity she goes to the bank, she has to wait along with everyone else in the queue?

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I am one of those privilege banking customers, who has NOT been able to make use of any privileges while trying to withdraw any cash from the ICICI Bank. So much so, when I went to deposit cash after standing in a queue for over 45mins, the teller told me that I am not KYC verified, while I had got my KYC checked at the same branch 3 months back for NPS and they said everything in order and they even tried up selling their products to me.
ICICI Bank and by the looks of it, HDFC bank too, really do not offer any priority-banking except by name.

Last edited by nowwhat? : 6th December 2016 at 14:41.
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Old 6th December 2016, 14:37   #1484
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Apparently the ₹4.7 crore seized recently mainly consisting of ₹2,000 notes was procured in connivance with the ATM refilling companies who chose not to fill the ATMs, but diverted that currency instead.
??
That, technically, is a robbery.
I think you mean that the "bank" was providing a "favor" to their esteemed customer, and roped in the ATM refilling vendor.
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Old 6th December 2016, 14:50   #1485
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??
That, technically, is a robbery.
I think you mean that the "bank" was providing a "favor" to their esteemed customer, and roped in the ATM refilling vendor.
From today's Deccan Herald:

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CBI arrests 2 contractors in cash seizure case

Bengaluru: Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) has arrested two contractors - Nazeer Ahmed and Chandrakanth Ramalingam - in connection with the seizure of cash in Rs 2,000 denomination during the recent income tax raids in Bengaluru.

The agency had registered a first information report (FIR) against seven people, including S C Jayachandra, Chief Project Officer of the State Highway Improvement Project, and two bankers, in this connection on Saturday.

The CBI special court has remanded the two contractors in five-day police custody.

The others named in the FIR are: Suryanarayana Bairy, Chief Manager of Karnataka Bank, Indiranagar branch; Umashankar Renuka, Manager of Dhanalaxmi Bank, J C Road branch; Ibrahim Shereef of a private company, Secure Value India Ltd, represented by its Managing Director Ravi Goel.

Secure Value India Ltd is involved in replenishing ATMs with new banknotes.

According to CBI, the raids conducted by the Income Tax Department on November 30 revealed that certain people were in possession of new Rs 2,000 and Rs 500 banknotes. They are Ibrahim Shereef (Rs 4.80 crore) Jayachandra (Rs 5 lakh), Nazeer Ahmed (Rs 32.70 lakh) and Chandrakanth Ramalingam (Rs 46 lakh).

Income Tax Department sources said Secure Value India Ltd, in collusion with the officials of public and private sector banks, had fraudulently diverted the new currency meant for replenishing ATMs. The suspects later exchanged the new currency against the demonetised notes through middlemen.
Yep, banks are involved too.
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