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Old 1st December 2006, 12:54   #61
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Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
So you mean it warranted a death sentence? Because that's what the mob decided to dish out to him, and that is what all you supporters here feel is perfectly fine!?!

I am really at a loss for words here.

Edit: As someone mentioned above, if you run a red light, should you be shot? You are, after all, knowingly breaking the law which may result in the death or injury of another. I don't see a difference between you running a red light and that guy throwing stones. They could both lead to the same outcome, so, by your reckoning, the driver of the vehicle should also be lynched, beaten and killed on the spot.

I hope that example lets you see the larger picture and not just a one off case.
I think yes. I know you dont agree with the train of thought. and yes, we dont live in some Arab country.

but Robin, you gave the answer yourself. what is the point in all the education and awareness if a person knowingly breaks a red light. And if a person coming on the green gets hit by this idiot running a red light, what happens after that? would a sorry, or a fine or a prison imprisonment by the person running the red light turn things around.

i agree with people that are saying that the law shouldnt be taken into ones own hands and we should let the authorities handle the situation...but sadly, it seems we have come far from that situation.

p.s. look at the bangalore motorist thread.
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Old 1st December 2006, 13:05   #62
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NOT DIRECTED TO ANYONE

You're with your family in your car. A mob comes, pelt stones at your car. They drag your family out...."women" included......burn your car......they are in a powerful position so you stay put.

Now consider this >
If they do throw your family out and burn your car, and if YOU are in a powerful position, would you still stand by and watch?! Wouldn't you punch him till he's half-dead?! Would you try to negotiate with them?! Like hell he'd negotiate with you.

Of course, death was not needed and is never the solution...but these DUMB people deserve a LOT of thrashing.

So much property was destroyed. So much losses. For what?! Because some bloke did something to a statue....and supporters were angered. So catch that bloke and torch him....why make the whole state suffer?! Keep some cameras at all statues to avoid such situations.

And for all you know, the fuel prices that were recently reduced may suddenly shoot up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by msdivy
A mob is a group of persons with heads but no brains.
Exactly....so we need to put some brains into them.

Last edited by Gordon : 1st December 2006 at 13:07.
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Old 1st December 2006, 13:33   #63
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Originally Posted by Suman
However, your post, if you'll pardon my pointing out does suggest that it was not a crime to throw stones at passing cars as long as someone didn't get killed.....and THAT amazes me.
I think you should read my original post again. I said, "Unfortunately you cannot sentence someone to death for a crime he may have committed had that stone caused the death of another."

Please note the bold and underlined words. You find it amazing that some of us here find that correct?

Yes, the justice procedure in our country is not the best. Hell, I'm going through a case right now which is ridiculous to say the least, so I can say I'm in a better position than most to comment on this. But, the fact is that we have some laws and there is a legal system at work, however slow it may be. All those asking to take the law into your own hands should make a line and move into UP or Bihar. You may feel right at home there.

Yes, we all say things in the heat of the situation. Comments like "I'd like to kill that guy" or something similar would obviously be spoken. But tell me, take one individual out of that mod and ask him to raise his hand against the stone pelter, do you think he would do it? 9 times out of 10 is no. Its the typical bully in the schoolyard situation. As a mob, they feel empowered. And it seems that a lot of people think what they did was right.
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Old 1st December 2006, 13:35   #64
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Death was an extreme step, but getting the snot beaten out of him is pretty much what he deserved.
If you had told this first, this thread wouldn't have gone so long.

Quote:
Mob rules anyways, so in this case I'm just glad it was well deserved.
Not again! Hope you are not glad on the death.
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Old 1st December 2006, 13:37   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sivadas
If you had told this first, this thread wouldn't have gone so long.
lol! Spot on .
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Old 1st December 2006, 13:43   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
I think you should read my original post again. I said, "Unfortunately you cannot sentence someone to death for a crime he may have committed had that stone caused the death of another."

Please note the bold and underlined words. You find it amazing that some of us here find that correct?
And I've highlighted the portion of your sentence that I found amazing....don't know if it makes any sense to you. It seems the act of stone throwing becomes a crime only if someone gets hit by the stone & dies.

As for your earlier question about people breaking red lights - please read the thread about the school children who were killed when their van was hit by a speeding call center cab who jumped a red light at high speed - I THINK PEOPLE LIKE THAT SHOULD BE SENT TO THE GALLOWS.

I'm repeating what I said earlier as I don't think you're getting it - I didn't mention anywhere that the killing was justified but if you ask me was the thrashing justified - YES!!! they should have known when to stop though.
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Old 1st December 2006, 13:49   #67
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All this, for a statue.
For his entire public life, Dr.Ambedkar stood up against idol worship.
And what do his followers do?
Made Dr.Ambedkar himself an idol, and started worshipping him. (I have used worship in the literal sense).
He must be feeling real nice in his resting place.

EDIT : Whats wrong when some people get a taste of their own medicine?? (Talking about the beating here.)

Last edited by sajo : 1st December 2006 at 13:51.
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Old 1st December 2006, 13:57   #68
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Rtech, could you please then specify what you would do in the situation?

1. Would you call and inform the cops? Do you honestly believe they would respond?

2. Would you personally take the stoner to the police station? And then what? Will the cops promptly swing into action, or will they give him a "stern warning" and let him go, or will he speak to them in Marathi and they will all gang up on you and extort money?

3. Would you just drive by, knowing that there's nothing you can do about it?

Just curious for your take on it.

And saying that all those who want lawlessness should move to Bihar is like saying all Muslims should go to Pakistan. This is our home. We want to live here. We respect the law, but sometimes there is no law.

The stone thrower did not show any consideration for the extent of damage to life and property he could have caused. The mob showed him the same treatment. Both are wrong, but I'm just happy that in this case, they're taking each other out and leaving innocent people out of it.
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Old 1st December 2006, 14:11   #69
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Boom, to answer you question. If I was driving on the highway and someone threw something at my car and it didn't hit, I'd continue driving. I would not stop in the middle of a highway, in a place I didn't know.

If that rock did hit my car and caused enough damage that I would feel the need to take up the matter, I'd stop and would like to take up option 2. But again, real world scenario's are different.

And heck, why would I risk stopping and chance being beaten up and killed by a mob that decides that I am wrong in taking in one of their fellow villagers. Afterall, according that would-be mob, I am just a trouble maker fighting with one of their guys.

What would you do Boom?

Quote:
We respect the law, but sometimes there is no law.
Exactly. Condoning behavior like that is no law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suman
And I've highlighted the portion of your sentence that I found amazing....don't know if it makes any sense to you. It seems the act of stone throwing becomes a crime only if someone gets hit by the stone & dies.
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Old 1st December 2006, 15:53   #70
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Originally Posted by naveendhyani View Post
@ all who think we live in a civilised world

Dalit protests intensify in Maharashtra, three killed

please go thru the whole article before passing on the judgement on the civilised world. unfortunate, but we certainly are far far away from it. some people dont behave in a human fashion but as an animal does. they should be treated the same way.

you dont qualify to be a human being becase u were born as one. your actions make you a human.

and to top it all the "elected ones" will ask us to shell out more as tax & distribute free jobs to these buggers, who dont even qualify to be human beings.
thanks to the politicians who will benefit from it all.

btw u contradict what you say especially what u've put in "bold"

boom @
ur mob will work only on the weaker section of society, but never can they do anything to the upper sections as otherwise u would not have a Matoo case, Jessica case, etc etc when everyone knows who the culprits are but no mob exists who want to dish instant justice.

rtech@ u cant change mindsets - i feel its a waste to post on this thread going forward better to look at other threads than get influenced with barbaric acts in the name of justice.

Last edited by 2fast4u : 1st December 2006 at 16:12.
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Old 1st December 2006, 16:30   #71
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Originally Posted by 2fast4u View Post
i feel its a waste to post on this thread
Don't mean to be rude 2fast, but no one's forcing you to post.

We're having a discussion here. If some people have different views, that's their prerogative. Just because they don't conform to your view doesn't make it a waste.
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Old 1st December 2006, 17:45   #72
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I think an Individual (and his family members being threatened) by a mob is quite different from a mob attacking a single individual.

In the first case, if I were the individual, I would do anything in my power to save my family and myself from harm. ANYTHING. And I think I would be morally right.

In the second case, the mob (even if it is on the morally correct side) will be doing a very very wrong thing in roughing-up an individual to the point of death or near death (even if he is on the morally wrong side). Some roughing-up maybe all right (though not justified), but there is always a line that should not be crossed. Once that line is crossed, the mob becomes a liability to society, just like the guy they roughed up.

----------------- Somewhat Off-Topic -----------------

There's this nice Henry Fonda movie called "The Ox-Bow Incident". 1940's movie, B&W, Western. A little hard to get, but a real gem.

Linky: The Ox-Bow Incident

It is about a mob-hanging (lynching). Nobody will feel good about people taking the law into their own hands after watching this movie. A must watch for all of us folks (of either opinion).

Another somewhat related movie (again Henry Fonda) is "12 Angry Men". Late 50s, B&W.

Linky: 12 Angry Men

It is about a jury (the 12 men) going through a deliberation about whether a murder-accused is guilty or not guilty. Their decision will result in the man going free or being hanged. The way people's minds work has been shown so vividly, it gives you the creeps. Also a must-watch for any fan of cinema.

----------------------------------------------------------

Last edited by hydrashok : 1st December 2006 at 17:50.
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Old 2nd December 2006, 13:56   #73
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if somebody's actions are intentional, it has to be "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth". nothing less, nothing more.

i see no harm.

Last edited by naveendhyani : 2nd December 2006 at 13:58.
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Old 2nd December 2006, 16:07   #74
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I think the whole issue here is about who is qualified enough to decide whether:

(a) the alleged problem-maker is guilty of the action, and if he is guilty,
(b)
what punishment is to be meted out.

I don't think a mob is even remotely qualified to do that. A mob (in this context) is nothing but a bunch of people charged up with emotion, harbouring personal and secret grudges (usually unjustifiable and illogical grudges) and free of all personal responsibility (and conscience) for the actions. This mob will do anything an individual member wouldn't do on his own. No way is such an entity going to make a proper decision on the spot.

What if one of the mob, seeing his enemy standing nearby shouted, something like "I saw him doing that too"? Everybody would then jump on that person (without a thought) also and beat him to death too. Is that fair?

Once the emotions are settled and the adrenaline runs normal, then the same bunch of people maybe able to make a saner decision about something. But even then, such a random group of people (anonymous people), not responsible for their actions, is NOT the entity to punish a person regardless of whether he is guilty or not.

Some roughing up will be inevitable in a situation such as the one here. But killing that person was BAD!
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Old 4th December 2006, 11:44   #75
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I have not really read through the entire thread, but having experienced the mob fury (I was behind a BEST bus that was pelted in my swift and was able to move between it and the mob), it just seemed that our politicians / govt. is to blame over the years for what happened.

Their policies have simply been to act like 'mai-baap' providing free lunches to their vote banks. Quotas simply have no meaning, since they are not even filled. But the population takes the meaning of quotas as getting job without working. Free lunches is obviously not possible for any length of time and therefore the deep resentment against the haves and more so the govt. Further, the justice (and consequently law and order) system has simply bogged down and no common man can even think of approaching the judicial system for any injustice. The fault again lies with the politicians (recently when there was an issue of appointment of more judges - it was turned down by the states because of funds constraints!)

In fact, while some private cars / property was stoned, I felt the bulk of ire was against the govt. property.

So take heart guys, maybe we still do have decent feelings for our fellow human beings and I do believe in the law taking its own course, corrupted though it may be or there is no end.

Edit: Please note that I do not condone in any manner taking the law into one's own hands or condone the mindless violence that ocurred on thursday.

Last edited by sandeep108 : 4th December 2006 at 11:45.
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