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Old 2nd February 2007, 21:44   #1
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Default Global Warming - Guilty/Not guilty

With the looming global warming threatening to derail the efforts of a million years of evolution on earth, I'm finding it difficult to answer to myself satisfactorily this question: While the US continues to be the largest polluter with 60% of all air pollution on earth, should us - the Indian automotive-user community who's only just started integrating automobiles into our daily essentials, be contemplative of this problem ?

After all the seeds of this ecological disaster were sown in the 60s/70s/80s long before India even became rich enough to afford a car per family. Yet we cant ignore this potential catastrophe just as we've started to become prosperous.

Any thoughts?
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Old 2nd February 2007, 22:02   #2
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I am sure we all agree that Western nations are guilty of having polluted the globe with their energy-guzzling automobiles (high capacity engines, large cars, etc) and extarvagant lifestyles(central heating, no-switch lighting, etc), and they continue to do so. The Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) under the Kyoto Protocol for mitigating impact of climate change expects poorer nations like India and China (which are becoming large energy consumers) to conserve energy, while countries like US and Australia refuse to mend their ways.

Take the Indian auto industry for example - right from the beginning of the auto boom (with the advent of Maruti 800), we have bought smaller cars, which consume less fuel. The fuel-inefficient Chetaks and other scooters were displaced by the fuel-efficient Jap mobikes - from 70% market share in 1985, scooters are probably 10% share now because we realise the value of fuel and maybe know that we are polluting less.

India embraced fuel emission norms very quickly, we are already in Euro 3. We have a fuel blending (with biofuels) programme for both bioidiesel and ethanol. We emphasise public transport - buses, trains, etc.

When I bought my Suzuki Ax100 in 1986, it have me 55 kmpl, now even larger-cap bikes give better mileage. My Daewoo Matiz used to give me 11-13 kmpl, now the Maruti 800 gives you more than 15 kmpl, and even the large Skoda gives you 15 kmpl plus.

In a country where governance is poor and policy decisions are slow, our large cities have switched over to friendlier natural gas fuels (such as in Delhi, Bombay, Gujarat).

I am involved with energy efficiency in industrial projects and the changeover to such energy-savings technologies is rapid. And finally, our per capital consumption of energy is still among the lowest in the world despite our economy having one of the highest growth rates in the world.

I have seen cars idling in US parking lots (to keep teh AC running) while their owners spend hours inside supermarkets and want to feel cool when they come back. I know of at least one Energy Service Company in US again which ran a project to save energy simply by installing switches for lights (that were earlier never switched off). Some nations live life super-king size, while we "poorer" nations pay for their energy use.
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Old 2nd February 2007, 22:26   #3
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I think India should seriously sit down and address its population problem first - at the disastrous rate that we are growing in numbers, even with if per capital energy consumption drops, we will become one of the largest energy consumers of teh world. I am sure we all agree that owning and running a car (1 century behind the rest of the world) is not an extravaganza - give us also a chance. While we pursue plans to reduce emissions, I think the developed world should cut down drasticlaly their wasteful lifestyles. And in our country, we should firmly cut down population (like what China has already done), instead of following politically-motivated policies.
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Old 3rd February 2007, 00:19   #4
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Default I am guilty

Yes, I am guilty of polluting the earth and to global warming. I like using my car which gives 15kmpl instead of my bike which gives 65kmpl for the sake of comfort. (ofcourse, health is another reason)

But still the concious in me reminds me to go for less polluting vehicles like Electric Vehicles or vehicles running on LPG or CNG. Hence my next car will be a car running on LPG or CNG. (also, the cost is lower w.r.t cost per KM)

I love to have a vehicle like this at an affordable price here in india:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intern...tml#post329858 (188 mpg)
And how about running it on LPG or CNG???

Last edited by kkr2k2 : 3rd February 2007 at 00:21.
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Old 3rd February 2007, 08:32   #5
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Something that I picked off another forum

Motor vehicles are responsible for about six per cent of global man-made CO2 emissions. Someone, however, seems to have calculated that they account for 20 per cent of the problem in developed countries like the UK. Others say 10 per cent. Whatever the true figure, it doesn't take a genius to work out that reducing UK vehicle emissions by 50 per cent will have hardly any effect on CO2 emissions worldwide. So how is reducing them going to affect climate change?

The purpose of all the nonsense we are fed about climate change is to provide a moral high ground as a basis for taxation. Burning Indonesian rainforests to clear land for palm-oil growth creates 18 per cent of the world's CO2 output - that alone could be responsible for melting the icecaps.

Running cars on the biofuels grown there is like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted - it won't save anyone.

Honest John's agony column | Honest John | Motoring | Telegraph
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Old 6th February 2007, 10:33   #6
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First of all, Global warming is crap, and is hotly debated over for many many years. There's other group of scientists who think that Earth is rather in a Cooling cycle, which happens due to increased %-age of suspended particles in the air, which reflect the solar energy. Thus, the incident solar energy on earth is lesser.


Secondly, even if one were to assume that we actually are exhibiting any sort of warming effect, I'm sure it's due to power generation, and not automobiles. Curious people may check the statistics from a website they trust.

And, there's also a theory that if the 'warming' kicks in, it'll automatically lead to more reflection of solar energy from the water surface, and everything will be normal pretty quickly. Also, increased humidity and temperature will lead to massive growth of forests, and the CO2 will be sucked in fast.

So, chill out... and keep revving (within limits) :-)
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Old 6th February 2007, 14:09   #7
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I dont know about Warming or Cooling, but its quite apparant from news reports that Climate Change is for real.

We have ICE falling in Saudi Arabia, Snow in the UAE, freak typhoons in the UK (and France), all of Europe was almost frozen solid a week ago, we have had about 4 weeks of rain in the last 3 months in a place that doesnt see more than 3 days of rain in a year at the most, we have monsoon seasons running all the way till november and summers that last until July in Kerala, we've had unseasonal rains and flooding in Malaysia, and peak temperatures in Summer going up by almost 5 degrees in the last two years.

If we still close our eyes and pretend that nothing is happening, we're being plain stupid.

I am guilty.
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Old 6th February 2007, 14:35   #8
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I don't know how somebody can call global warming a crap!
@amu1983; Maybe it is debatable, But never can be called so!!

Maldives will be soon under the sea according to many experts. So is many parts of Bangladesh. And I think that is going to effect many parts of our country too.
If a Tsunami that lasted just for some minutes could cause so big a tragedy, then why can't the ocean not behave more worse in a long term basis??

Yes, I am worried and very guilty of sleeping in AC comforts while causing problems to Ozone layers.
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Old 6th February 2007, 14:38   #9
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Really heart wrenching sight: a strugging polar bear on receding ice:




National Geographic Enlarge Photo

I feel really sorry at mankind - we've been the reason all living creatures on earth are facing extinction. Its not fair. Just hope another mankind doesnt evolve on any other planet
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Old 6th February 2007, 14:45   #10
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If we look back in time, our planet has constantly been changing -Ice age, dramatic climate shifts, continents breaking up, entire species being wiped out and starting afresh etc.

We just seem to be sticking to the pattern.
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Old 6th February 2007, 15:12   #11
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It's true (and quite tragic) that humankind has been responsible to a large extent for the degradation of the environment, extinction of various species and so on.

However, the other side of the coin is that in a few billion years when the earth becomes un-inhabitable, it's highly probable that humans alone (as opposed to some less intelligent species) will figure out a way to get themselves and other living creatures off a dying planet!
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Old 6th February 2007, 15:13   #12
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>> We just seem to be sticking to the pattern.

Exactly. Natural disasters including the tsunamis have been occurring since 1700.
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Old 6th February 2007, 16:11   #13
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Guys, This definitely is a serious issue ... ask me about it . As I live of the lands a slight change in weather can hamper our bread and butter and not much we can do about it . We havnt seen a good snowfall in years now and there was a time when as kids i remember one night of snowfall and we wud have 4-5 ft of snow around the house ..... now forget the snow , it aint even raining . And this is leading to a lot of apple orchardists thinking of moving to some other form of farming ...... !!!

As for who is to blame ..... thats a million dollar question . I believe that we shud try and do what we can at our end . But it was bound to happen with development across the earth ... just hope it stabilises for a few hundred years so I can plan what to grow instead of apples ........

Cheers
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Old 6th February 2007, 16:36   #14
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Totally agree with each of you guys. My experience, been in Bangalore all my life and never did I know of a summer which was hot like last year.Am sure Bangaloreans from the forum can testify on this.
One pointer to the fact that,yes for sure we are on the way to the so called GLOBAL WARMING.

Also Steeroid you forgot to mention the colorful rains that was witnessed in parts of kerala. I dont know how far this is true. Well even heard of news that the water in the wells had undergone a color change.

Am sure each one of us has contributed to this in a way or the other,maybe small or big.But facts remain facts, how much can we change/contribute as individuals ? Have you started doing your bit to make sure we arent contributors for global warming?

Last edited by rjstyles69 : 6th February 2007 at 16:40.
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Old 6th February 2007, 21:14   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khaadu75 View Post
Guys, This definitely is a serious issue ...
As for who is to blame ..... thats a million dollar question .
The human race, of course. Mindless pollution and destruction of the environment resulting in entire species vanishing off the face of the earth, and a large number of endangered species. Mindless cruelty to animals and other fellow-inhabitants of the earth who are less fortunate than us. Our mindless multiplication results in ever decreasing habitat for various endangered species, etc., etc.

What goes around, comes around. We have to pay the price for our crimes against Nature. It is only a question of time.

@rjstyles69: I too can testify to the change in Bangalore weather from 1989 to 2000, when I stayed there. In 1989 and early 1990's, you actually needed a sweater in winter and the peak summer temps were like 35 degs. C.

Last edited by rks : 6th February 2007 at 21:16.
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