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Old 21st March 2007, 09:26   #31
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Pavements are not for sleeping
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Old 21st March 2007, 10:38   #32
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Pavements are not drunken drivers' highway!

Deep condolences to the deceased. Hope the drunk driver gets hanged. Seriously, drunken driving should be dealt with severe punishments.
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Old 21st March 2007, 10:43   #33
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Thread merged with similar one. Continue the arguments over here please.
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Old 21st March 2007, 11:48   #34
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Its a sad thing that people had to loose their life in such an unfortunate incident. What we should understand here is that no one wants to kill other person knowingly...Ever seen people in a pool of blood...sometimes we just cannot help it. why to blame those who sleep on the road and loose their lives and those who run over them? They probably do not have any alternative to stay and hence the road and those who ran over them didn't because they wanted to kill them. In a country like our's there are so many accidents daily...Railway accidents...so many people are killed and crushed under the trains...It not that the motorman wanted to kill them...its just that should SHOULDN'T have been there...I do not want to set an example but all i want to say is lets NOT drink and Drive... and try to drive carefully and in a manner in which we do not loose the control and something like this happens...lets follow the American style and CARE and give IMPORTANCE to "HUMAN kind".
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Old 21st March 2007, 12:38   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amtak View Post
...Railway accidents...so many people are killed and crushed under the trains...It not that the motorman wanted to kill them...its just that should SHOULDN'T have been there...
Difference is - you would rarely hear of a train going OFF its rails and running over people. In these pavement accident situations in Mumbai that one so frequently reads about, the vehicles are all OFF their normal running path/track/course....and that's where the whole debate starts off
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Old 21st March 2007, 12:54   #36
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It is not an acceptable excuse from the taxi driver that he couldnt see the people sleeping on the pavement.

Excuse me, but why is his taxi pointed towards the pavement in the first place, it meant to be driven on roads. Whatever the argument, your totally responsible for your actions including when your behind the wheel.
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Old 21st March 2007, 13:02   #37
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In Mumbai, pavements (wherever they exist) are encroached by everyone who has the money to pay a "hafta" - to the cops, corporators, local goondas - resulting in shops displaying their wares, building extensions to their shops, pavement shops and all and sundry using it as toilets, bedrooms and whatever. Not being happy with the encroachment on public property (meant for pedestrians to walk on), the life spills over to the roads themseleves - show me one road in Mumbai which has all its alnes in operation - you will see at least 1 lane on either side populated by debris, jaywalkers, illegal parking, bus-stop passengers, etc. Passengers waiting at bus-stops stand in the road (despite there being a bus shelter and a proper pavement) and the bueses naturally stop at least 1 lane out (more the rule than the exception). And in this meleee, lorries, cars and scooters have to be driven. It is a fashion to blame everything on drunken driving when we (I drive 90 kms through Mumbai roads everyday, and have been doing it for the last 16 years) have accidents (never mind who is to blame), the driver is always to blame - ever heard any pedestrian who has been blamed for crossing the road when his lights are red or without looking around at the traffic? Ever heard of any pedestrian who gets killed because he was jaywalking. Please come out to Churchgate railway station (a large suburban rail station) and you will see people climbing over (with the agility of monkeys) over the 3 feet dividers that have been put there to ensure that they use the subway ? Or they simply walk in the centre of the road, 3-man deep (comradeship, people walk on the road even 5 deep). And when someone gets killed or injured, the driver gets blamed.

I appreciate that there are people who live in pavements - in many roads, cooking is done on the road and small kids play 1 lane deep - but how do you form a judgement on whether the driver did it or not? I too encounter several miss-a-hit situations almost every day, and should I stop driving? Or should solutions be found to sanitise our roads so that such incidents do not recur?
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Old 21st March 2007, 13:04   #38
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Pavement dwellers (most of them) live on the pavement becuase (in many cases) they have no other place to go. It is a sad commentry on unban India.

That said I have seen (yes witnessed) accidents when the driver ended up on the pavement while trying to avoid some reckless soul who was trying to cross the road in the dead of the night and was not aware of the car. I did not know the driver or victim.

The poor pedestrian/pavement dweller is not aware of the handling, braking, and acceleration characteristcs of a modern car (all cars post 1995-6). They do not understand that many cars require 100+ feet to stop and that 50kmph is an awfully fast speed when the object that hits you weighs 1000 kg+.

One can argue that the pavement dweller "is not supposed to be there", it is upto us car owners to be more careful atleast we have cosy beds and warm food to go home to. In most cases the time difference between driving at 80kmph and 50kmph is minimal (given urban traffic conditions, signals, crossings, etc ).

It is unfortunate and sad that even when someone is careful these accidents will happen. Lets not push our luck by being careless, drunk, negligent, and/or stupid.

It is regretable that those TRULY responsible for the pavement dwellers, poor urban population, and poor and unsafe road conditions are not punushed. Instead they live the life of luxury fueled by swiss bank accounts but that is India.
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Old 21st March 2007, 13:09   #39
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I think navin has summed it up pretty well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amtak
lets follow the American style and CARE and give IMPORTANCE to "HUMAN kind".
Yeah, right. Like the "style" and "care for human kind" that they are currently following in 2 countries and which they are raring to implement in atleast two more.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 21st March 2007 at 13:27.
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Old 21st March 2007, 14:19   #40
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
An old Toyota (with a value of a couple of lakhs maybe) is a snob thing in a country that has cars that cost as high as 5-6 crores ? Either you are kidding or you are terribly out of date about what today's snob chart looks like.
You, me, lamborgini and all of us here know that a old Toyota worth hardly anything in the market today is not a snob factor or a status symbol but sadly thats not how non car or non four wheeler owners and even the media look at it. For most people living in slums or on the pavements anyone owning a four wheeler is rich. I don't blame them for having that attitude but after the Carter Road accident, even the media had talk shows where the host kept talking about how rich people trample all over the poor aam admi with their swanky cars.

Now here is something simply amazing that I saw on Sunday. I was driving down on Palm Beach road towards Belapur at about 6.15pm when I saw 3 guys standing right in the middle of the overtaking/fast/rightmost lane chatting away like it's their personal bedroom!



Imagine you are driving at night and you are suddenly greeted by this sight. Mind you they were not pavement dwellers but were probably living in the village close to that road. My question is if these guys get run over, during day or night time, whose fault is it?

Last edited by amit : 21st March 2007 at 14:26.
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Old 21st March 2007, 14:27   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
I saw 3 guys standing right in the middle of the overtaking/fast/rightmost lane chatting away like it's their personal bedroom!

Imagine you are driving at night and you are suddenly greeted by this sight. My question is if these guys get run over, during day or night time, whose fault is it?
The person driving the car of course.
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Old 21st March 2007, 14:37   #42
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Originally Posted by normally_crazy View Post
The person driving the car of course.
True... coz he is rich, and can afford to go about in a car, while the people standing in the middle of the road have no other place to stand and engage in a conversation. Or was it part of some game where they try and cheat death?

Bah.. here we go again..
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Old 21st March 2007, 14:44   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
For most people living in slums or on the pavements anyone owning a four wheeler is rich. I don't blame them for having that attitude but after the Carter Road accident, even the media had talk shows where the host kept talking about how rich people trample all over the poor aam admi with their swanky cars.
This attitude harks back to India's socialist days when owning even a 2-wheeler meant you were rich! (with Bajaj selling Chetaks against forex or waiting for 10 years to get one!). Will someone explain why public transport is so awful despite crores of rupees being poured into it.

Talking of pavement dwellers in Mumbai, I have hardly seen a single house without a colour TV set (so who is poor?)- and I may also mention that many of these houses have official electricity connections - so you know what is the attitude of the government and regulators to trespassing on public property. We also have regular "regularisations" of slums and pavement dwellings, so why have roads at all?
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Old 21st March 2007, 15:44   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy
The person driving the car of course.
@n_c, I am guessing you were being sarcastic there. Because if those guys were on the road (atleast any part that was not a pedestrian crossing), I would think that they take the major part of the blame for any accident. The vehicle driver also has the responsibility of driving in such a way as to be able to take preventive action when faced with such unforeseen situations, which becomes tougher when you are drunk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hvkumar
Talking of pavement dwellers in Mumbai, I have hardly seen a single house without a colour TV set
Maybe you should come down south to T.Nadu. People here now have 2 TV sets thanks to the DMK fulfilling their so-called poll promises.
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Old 21st March 2007, 16:21   #45
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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
The vehicle driver also has the responsibility of driving in such a way as to be able to take preventive action when faced with such unforeseen situations, which becomes tougher when you are drunk.
I don't consider this as a unforseen situation. It's not the driver's fault if he doesn't expect to see a couple of morons who for some strange reason decide to start chatting right in the middle of a lane that has fast moving automobiles. These guys have no business standing in the right lane of a busy high speed road notorious for frequent accidents. Drunk or not, is it expecting too much not to find something as stupid and idiotic like this on our roads? Lets not go down the "this is India. You have to expect anything on our roads" arguement.

Quote:
This attitude harks back to India's socialist days when owning even a 2-wheeler meant you were rich!
I agree hvk but thats the sad truth. The government opened up the economy, who is going to open up the minds of lakhs of people who still hold onto such thoughts?

Last edited by amit : 21st March 2007 at 16:35.
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