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Old 18th July 2007, 10:57   #136
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
Here are a few nouns that are exceptions to your rule

1. Thad
2. Theodre
3. Thornhill
thank you for pointing that out anyways does that rule apply to other nouns also say for example discotheque is pronounced as discotek.
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Old 18th July 2007, 11:30   #137
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discotheque --- French, I guess.

English is a real mongrel language. Sam can probably talk better about it's history, but even classical English has a lot of French and Latin, some Greek, maybe Scandanavian stuff too.

the Norman French invaded us back in that only date from history we all know, 1066. Of course the Romans were there for a long time way back. There is even a surprisingly large number of words of India origin like pyjama, ketchup, khaki, bungalow and many more

So this is one of the reasons for our crazy spellings and pronounciations.

BTW... I think there are (at least) three (wow, maybe there's another one!) pronounciations of th ?
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Old 18th July 2007, 12:55   #138
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Originally Posted by abhilash_iv View Post
Here comes my next shot:
What is the most polite way to say, "You will not be able to do it"
The sentence has to be polite, but should stress the point that in no way he can do it. (No doubts, mights etc)
s
I would say :

I can assure you that it wont be possible.

or

I'm [fairly/quite/pretty]* certain that it wont be possible for you to do that.

* = optional word depending on how you want to fine tune your sentence's feel.

cya
R

ps - is this correct? >
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to fine tune your sentence's feel.
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Old 18th July 2007, 13:19   #139
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post

fine tune your sentence's feel.

is this correct? >
Yes, it appears correct.

But if it was me I'd probably say "To fine tune the feel of your sentence."
But what you've said is not wrong.
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Old 18th July 2007, 13:21   #140
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What is the correct usage of who & whom?
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Old 18th July 2007, 13:26   #141
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Who are you? and to whom did you just speak?
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Old 18th July 2007, 13:48   #142
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Sam boss, it is true that a few cannot speak/write English properly here, but isn't that normal. After all we are supposed to be Indian and not Englanders ? Que ?

Can we say the same about any other country who go out of their way to learn and speak any Indian language let's say Hindi/Malayalam ?? Do not intend to nitpick but the end result might seem exactly so, but this attempt to speak propah english among Indians seems to be a vestigial remnant of the colonial times. I have seen Quebecois French who know English quite well, refuse to speak it or speak it in such a way that seems gibberish.

Though we don't need to emulate the Quebecois Francophones yet I feel we need to emphasize on our English speaking skills a bit lesser and polish our native-speaking skills a bit more.

i think an analogy to music lends a wider perspective. indeed it is essential that one learns to appreciate native music (for several reasons), but you cannot say that the attempt to appreciate rock is a vestigial remnant of the colonial times.

language and music, just as is all art, are figments of brilliance of the human mind. regardless of the source, they are an intellectual delight to indulge in.

while reinstating that it is essential to hone your own language, it is absolutely justifiable to pursue scholarship in other languages as well. yet, it is unfortunately true that we Indians somehow have a fascination for the foreign, and prefer to degrade what is our own. if this was your point, i fully agree.

Last edited by skandyhere : 18th July 2007 at 13:55. Reason: bettah english ;)
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Old 18th July 2007, 14:08   #143
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Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
What is the correct usage of who & whom?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Who are you? and to whom did you just speak?
I agree with Thad's examples. However there are many cases where who and whom are swappable (today). As with many English words, the line of distinction is getting grey.

In modern English, people say "Who shall we talk to ?" instead of "To whom shall we talk?"
Similarly "To whom do you wish to speak?"(orthodox) has been replaced with "Who do you wish to speak to?" or "Who the hell do you want to speak to?"
This is informal because orthodox English does not allow one to end a sentence in a preposition. It is unorthodox and casual to end in a to.

But modern English accepts it. That leaves the usage of Whom - Only in cases where TO precedes it. If the situation requires you to say it.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 18th July 2007 at 14:14.
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Old 18th July 2007, 14:21   #144
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
There is even a surprisingly large number of words of India origin like pyjama, ketchup, khaki, bungalow and many more
such a large number in fact, that there's a whole dictionary devoted to the subject! The Hobson Jobson

Bibliomania: Free Online Literature and Study Guides
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Old 18th July 2007, 14:24   #145
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Quote:
In modern English, people say "Who shall we talk to ?" instead of "To whom shall we talk?"
Similarly "To whom do you wish to speak?"(orthodox) has been replaced with "Who do you wish to speak to?" or "Who the hell do you want to speak to?"
It is true that these (like can and may) have become confused and have become interchangeable, but it is also true that it is wrong!



I'm not so sure that the usage stems from not ending a sentence with a preposition:Who and Whom, like I and me, are subject and object words.

Another pair that are loosing out to modern usage is where and whence.

These are somewhat formal points about our language, but the loss of them is, in my opinion, destroying the beauty of English.

I once gave someone a lesson on how to use a file in metalwork, the correct way to hold it, how to apply pressure, not applying pressure on the backstroke, and so on.

He remarked, rightly, that he did not see me following my own rules! But what would he have said if I taught him the wrong ways to begin with? Let me say (in Indian English) that, with these examples, it is like this only.
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Old 18th July 2007, 14:36   #146
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I'm sure all you folks will like this also..

I before e except after c - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 18th July 2007, 16:47   #147
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Ask some friends to show you their receipts.

That is a good rule, and a great help to my in my school days, but English is the language of exceptions!
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Old 18th July 2007, 16:53   #148
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Is the "ae" sound (Aesop's fables, encyclopaedia) represented by a separate letter? I've seen it occasionally - like an a and an e but stuck together.
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Old 18th July 2007, 18:06   #149
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I'm actually thankful that someone created this thread.

Moreover, though, I'm actually a little terrified behind how much time, I believe, went into the completion of each post.
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Old 18th July 2007, 18:16   #150
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Originally Posted by ajitkommini View Post
such a large number in fact, that there's a whole dictionary devoted to the subject! The Hobson Jobson

Bibliomania: Free Online Literature and Study Guides
Obviously, with the British lording over us for a couple of centuries, they picked up quite a few Indian words (is there anything called Indian language??? :-) ) when they did not have the literal English translations for them or when they found our words easier to use.
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