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Old 9th June 2011, 13:02   #1486
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Can a comma (,) follow [and]?

I was going there, and .... (rest)
or
I was going there and .... (rest)

Which is correct?

Thanks
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Old 9th June 2011, 13:25   #1487
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Prepone is not British English (In fact, I think it is exclusively Indian).
In fact, the word "prepone" did not exist at all till a few years ago and has recently been included in a few dictionaries only due to its widespread usage. The correct usage that would be analogous to "prepone" is "advance", as in "I advanced my return to Pune".

Cheers,
Vikram

Last edited by comfortablynumb : 9th June 2011 at 13:26.
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Old 9th June 2011, 13:25   #1488
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
Can a comma (,) follow [and]?

I was going there, and .... (rest)
or
I was going there and .... (rest)

Which is correct?

Thanks
the second one is correct. i don't suppose you can have a coma followed immediately by an and.
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Old 9th June 2011, 13:39   #1489
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronH4WK View Post
the second one is correct. i don't suppose you can have a coma followed immediately by an and.
Wel, I guess if you have a coma, anything that follows will be a bit of a blur (Yes, I do know you can't "have a coma" you go into one- before anyone points it out. Thanks!)

You may, however, use an "and" immediately after a comma. Apparently this usage is called the Oxford comma

The link has details- the best example of correctly using this comma is:
Quote:
This book is dedicated to my roommates, Nicole Kidman, and God.
In this case, not using the Oxford comma could result in readers doubting your sanity

Last edited by noopster : 9th June 2011 at 13:40.
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Old 9th June 2011, 14:19   #1490
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
Edit: "I'd prefer not to..." is one those typical Brit usages that drives us desis up the wall . Like "quite a few" means many or "not bad" means very good indeed. Why can't you guys say what you mean LOL.
This is what I was referring to in my earlier post that the Brits tend to use 2 negatives to connote a positive, like 'I like flying not so much as I like driving'.

We would tend to say the same thing as ' I like driving more than flying'.
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Old 9th June 2011, 14:39   #1491
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

I prefer driving to flying.

I'd rather drive than fly.

The various double negatives are all used but frowned upon.

One thing that you have to remember about my countrymen and our language is that the standard of education has fallen considerably over the last couple of generations. The English, at least, are no longer taught good English. Both grammar and style are a thing of the past. There is also a major import of the kind of management/marketing-speak garbage imported from USA. Rant over

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punzabi View Post
You're correct in saying its not British English and I was under the impression its Indian invention but that Brit colleague said its pretty much used in the UK.
Not in my 50 years! But see above. Anyway, it is true to say that language is ever-changing. Personally, I like "prepone!"

Quote:
Originally Posted by comfortablynumb View Post
In fact, the word "prepone" did not exist at all till a few years ago and has recently been included in a few dictionaries only due to its widespread usage. The correct usage that would be analogous to "prepone" is "advance", as in "I advanced my return to Pune".
There is put back and bring forward --- and I have always been confused by them!
Quote:
This book is dedicated to my roommates, Nicole Kidman, and God.
Wow! Did you get a look in with Nicole, or did God monopolise her?
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Old 13th June 2011, 11:31   #1492
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Quote:
Originally Posted by noopster View Post
...You may, however, use an "and" immediately after a comma. Apparently this usage is called the Oxford comma...
Adding a little bit of my knowledge:

Quote:
I have been working since 5 this morning, and I am not tired at all.
In the above sentence, 'and' is used to string two otherwise independent sentences together. In such cases, a comma is needed.

Quote:
Sisters and brothers, mothers and fathers, and aunts and uncles are all welcome to the fair.
In the above sentence, there are three distinct sub-groups -
1. Sisters and brothers
2. Mothers and fathers
3. Aunts and uncles

Comma is used before 'and' to signify that 'aunts and uncles' is the last sub-group we are referring to in the sentence.
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Old 13th June 2011, 13:58   #1493
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucifer1881 View Post
....
In the above sentence, there are three distinct sub-groups -
1. Sisters and brothers
2. Mothers and fathers
3. Aunts and uncles

Comma is used before 'and' to signify that 'aunts and uncles' is the last sub-group we are referring to in the sentence.
I would disagree!
I think the following sounds more elegant.

Quote:
Sisters and brothers, mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles are all welcome to the fair.
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Old 13th June 2011, 14:06   #1494
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

There are different uses for the comma. One is to separate items in a list, another is to separate words in a subordinate clause (I think that's the technical term; haven't been to school for 45 years!).

In the first case, I believe purists say that there should not be a comma before the and that precedes the final item.

The balls are available in red, white, blue, green and purple.

That is what I would write, but I would not be unduly upset by the inclusion of an extra comma.

Your example is complicated by the fact that your list is a list of lists! Because you desire the literary effect of this sub-grouping, I can't see any other way to do it. The words and the punctuation are the brush strokes, and you have used them to create the picture you want your readers to see. Ultimately, that is what it is about

I have been working since 5 this morning, and I am not tired at all.

This I am not so sure about. The and is almost like punctuation rather than a word (conjunction, if I remember my schooling correctly?). It's very function is to express the relationship between those to phrases, and no punctuation is required:

I have been working since 5 this morning and I am not tired at all.

I have been working since 5 this morning but I am not tired at all.

I have been working since 5 this morning: I am not tired at all.


Conjunctions are always used to link two things in a sentence, and that is the reason we should never begin a sentence with one. But, in informal English, we often do

<Cross-posted>

Yes, anapmathur, I like your version too. Isn't a matter of difference of style, though?

~

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 13th June 2011 at 14:10.
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Old 14th June 2011, 15:15   #1495
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Am I the only one who finds this sentence wrong -
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear". Should'nt it be - "Objects that appear in the mirror are closer than they are".

Logically speaking, there are no objects in the mirror, they appear in the mirror.

Is this usage right?
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Old 14th June 2011, 16:37   #1496
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

No.

Objects seen in the mirror are closer than they appear to be

Maybe.

the original could be more polished by adding "to be"

Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear to be.

The "to be" is understood. Either that, or they ran out of space to write it!
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Old 14th June 2011, 16:43   #1497
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

^^Thad, wouldnt that still be wrong?
"Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear to be."

There are no objects in the mirror. They appear in the mirror. Right?

Sorry, didnt mean to offend you, just wanted some clarification.
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Old 14th June 2011, 16:57   #1498
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

^^ Yeah English becomes funny when you start taking words literally.
For example, when you say "Baba Ramdev is doing yoga on the telly", you don't really mean he is ON the tv as in "The dog is lying ON the sofa"
Similarly, "objects in mirror" does not mean "objects inside the mirror"

EDIT: I may be wrong though. English is kind of funny that way. You can be wrong even when you are in the right
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Old 14th June 2011, 18:07   #1499
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

I think it is this thing called "idiom," which every language has. It is that which adds normal usage to strict grammar and definition. We speak of the face in the mirror, objects in the mirror, and so on.

If I remember my schoolboy physics (and I was very bad at it), even the scientist speaks of the reflection being the same distance behind the mirror as the object is in front --- and if you are manually focussing a camera to photograph something in a mirror, that is the setting (not the glass surface) you would use.

Here's the great teaser of mirrors: they swap left and right, so how come they don't swap up and down?
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Old 14th June 2011, 18:08   #1500
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Default Re: A YetiGuideŽ : How To Post In Proper English

Some of you might enjoy this article :

Quote:
10 classic Indianisms: 'Doing the needful' and more

We are a unique species, aren’t we? Not humans. Indians, I mean. No other race speaks or spells like we do.

Take greetings for example.

A friendly clerk asking me for my name is apt to start a conversation with, “What is your good name?” As if I hold that sort of information close to my heart and only divulge my evil pseudonym. Bizarre.

I call these Indianisms.

Which got me thinking about a compilation, a greatest hits of the 10 most hilarious Indianisms out there. And here they are. The most common ones, and my favorites among them.


1. 'Passing out'

When you complete your studies at an educational institution, you graduate from that institution.

You do not "pass out" from that institution.

To "pass out" refers to losing consciousness, like after you get too drunk, though I’m not sure how we managed to connect graduating and intoxication.

Oh wait … of course, poor grades throughout the year could lead to a sudden elation on hearing you’ve passed all of your exams, which could lead to you actually "passing out," but this is rare at best.


2. 'Kindly revert'

One common mistake....
Read the full writeup at this link

cya
R
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