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Old 25th July 2007, 22:04   #181
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So many different countries, so many different ways --- and I'm afraid that I never was very formal in the only one I know well anyway!

But there's a driving etiquette hint in my previous post to get you started.

Generally speaking, things are not so formal as they once were, anyway. Outside of police, armed forces, etc, you would not, for instance, be expected to call your boss 'sir'. In fact it must be thirty years since I laughed at a man who thought I ought to address him in that way. Hey... it wasn't a disaster; I stayed with the company for 16 years and become IT manager!

Back to the Language....
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Old 25th July 2007, 22:10   #182
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You see... Sam knows more about it than I do!

probably there's some saying about a fish in bowl, or something....

I've never met the queen --- but I think you call her "Ma'am", pronounced, as you say, 'marm'.
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Old 25th July 2007, 22:23   #183
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Default Confirm or Conform

A mistake that happens often. 2 words, not swappable and with very different meanings.

Confirm:
To find out, or establish the fact or facts.

Let me confirm if it's a man or a woman.


To state a fact with confidence.
I can confirm that she's a man. I'd like to confirm my presence at the meet.

To appoint someone.
He was confirmed as the new moderator.


Conform:

To behave in an acceptable manner, to comply with a set of regulations, rules or expectations.

My organization conforms to the ISO9001 standards. I do not feel the need to conform to the way my peers dress.
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Old 25th July 2007, 22:25   #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
I've never met the queen --- but I think you call her "Ma'am", pronounced, as you say, 'marm'.
yeah, we know that. we all call our college lecturers as ma'am.
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Old 25th July 2007, 22:42   #185
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I'm not sure if I can confirm that!

Shouldn't confirm only have one possibility? And it should be asking for confirmation.

This is something you'll often hear when phoning your credit card company, or something like that...

"Can you confirm your address, please?"

Sure... tell me, and tell you if you got it right!

No, what they should be asking is, simply, "Please tell me your address".

Or, "I need to confirm that our record of your address is correct".

You may see my profile, and note that I am a man: If something causes you some doubt of that, you could ask me for confirmation.

But I don't think you can ask me to confirm if I am a man or a woman.
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Old 25th July 2007, 23:18   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post

This is something you'll often hear when phoning your credit card company, or something like that...

"Can you confirm your address, please?"

Sure... tell me, and tell you if you got it right!

No, what they should be asking is, simply, "Please tell me your address".

Or, "I need to confirm that our record of your address is correct".

The context here in india is different. When the credit card company executive(PYT) asks you to confirm your address, he/she is merely checking if you are the correct person calling up the company. They will ask you to 'confirm' your address, your date of birth etc to make sure no one else is making this call on your behalf.
cheers
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Old 25th July 2007, 23:19   #187
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Confirm is also transitive verb.

He confirmed that the money was missing. I confirmed that it was indeed missing.


Ergo Can you confirm if you are a man or woman? must be correct. If I can confirm that I am a man (the affirmative), then the interrogative is logical.

To confirm is to state with confidence that the statement is factual. I'm pretty sure of this.
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Old 25th July 2007, 23:26   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
This is something you'll often hear when phoning your credit card company, or something like that...

1) "Can you confirm your address, please?"


2) Or, "I need to confirm that our record of your address is correct".
In usage 1, confirm is a transitive verb, in the interrogative.

In usage 2, is is still a verb. I need to confirm is as good as I need to eat.. Therefore To confirm is as good in usage as To eat.

In usage one, the question is if you can repeat your address, to make sure it matches the one on their record. A confirmation of a fact.

In usage two, the operator needs to make sure that the address you will state, matches the one on her record. A confirmation of the fact.

The same transitive verb used in two different ways. The result is the same.
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Old 25th July 2007, 23:45   #189
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In usage one, the question is if you can repeat your address, to make sure it matches the one on their record. A confirmation of a fact.
Good etiquette says that this is strictly said only when the address has already been given out once during this particular conversation & the typist/telephone operator needs to confirm it once again. If you want to match it with the one on record, you got to be more polite.
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Old 26th July 2007, 00:53   #190
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Yep... I'm still not keen on the "call centre" usage, same in India and UK.

It's a recent thing, too. Call centre English is script-based, and the last thing they probably looked for in the script writer was a degree in English!

Here's a howler from the BBC, on a news video snippet (I've been watching, with horror, the UK floods); "The river has swelled...". Umm, no: swollen!
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Old 26th July 2007, 00:59   #191
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Quote:
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Here's a howler from the BBC, on a news video snippet (I've been watching, with horror, the UK floods); "The river has swelled...".

From the BBC ? changing with the times, i guess. very sad.
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Old 26th July 2007, 03:32   #192
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Oi, Yeti! Put a post up with the difference between 'loose' and 'lose'. Use 'When I lose my belt, my trousers are loose' as an example. I'm seeing too many chances that people loose all the time on the forum.
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Old 26th July 2007, 09:23   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Here's a howler from the BBC, on a news video snippet (I've been watching, with horror, the UK floods); "The river has swelled...". Umm, no: swollen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
From the BBC ? changing with the times, i guess. very sad.
The rivers swelled is a statement I have read in some good books, many times in the news. It's not new to me and seemed perfectly acceptable. To hear that it was wrong, got me very curious.
I was not terribly confident so this time I did some research.

The river has swelled
is correct. You will find thousands of articles using it with regards to dams and rivers. You will find far fewer articles saying the river has swollen.

"In Faridpur, the river Padma has swelled dangerously in the wake of two weeks of heavy rainfall and devoured homes and farm lands of 300 families."

And another "Oswegatchie River has swelled due to high amount of Spring rain causing retaining wall to collapse and possible damage to state Rt. 812 bridge"



Here's what my research dug up (Not quoting from)

Swell has 2 past participles - Swollen and Swelled.

Swollen is typically used in a case where something gets larger or rounder. Mostly used so in body parts.

Your ankles are swollen.


But when something becomes greater in intensity or number:

The crowd swelled up. The whisper swelled to a roar.\

I really cannot see the crowd being swollen. Given this logic, I cannot see a swollen river or sea.

Rivers do swell up regularly. Rivers have swelled up in the past.

I could be wrong though.
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Old 26th July 2007, 09:38   #194
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Default Loose or Lose?

As C3PO pointed out, here is a common error that occurs on the forum.

Loose and Lose are two totally different words and not swappable.

Loose: Dheela. Not tight.

I'm wearing a loose tee shirt. These trousers are too loose for me

Or not fastened or tied up
Don't tie your hair, leave it loose. I have loose change in my pockets

Soft and Runny:

I have loose motions today. Isn't that lovely to know?


Careless or meaningless chat:
Sometimes there is some loose talk on this thread.

Lose: Mutiple meanings

As the opposite of win. You lose!! Never play Tekken again.

To be deprived of something or to no longer have it . Losing my girlfriend made me lose my mind.

A casual way of saying "get rid off" Lose that stupid grin, before i smack you in the face!

To suffer losses. This venture may lose some money.

PLus you say things like Lose face (to lose respect), lose heart(to get discouraged), lose sleep over (Worry about) and many many more.

It is wrong to say I have to loose weight or I will loose time..
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Old 26th July 2007, 09:45   #195
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Also, there's no such thing as a looser it's loser.

example: He is such a loser in life.
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