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Old 8th February 2008, 08:35   #511
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
When Thad and I were learning to write, there were no accessible computers and no World Wide Web.
That could be true for you, Sam, but not for The Elderly Gentleman. There is a considerable difference in age between the two of you. My age is somewhere in between that of the two of you. There were, quite simply, NO COMPUTERS when we went to school.
My teachers did not teach me to leave TWO spaces after a full stop. Cannot agree with Ishan about that.

Last edited by anupmathur : 8th February 2008 at 08:51. Reason: TEG?
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Old 8th February 2008, 09:00   #512
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And IIRC (from my typing classes in school) you are supposed to use two spaces after using a period aka full stop.
You mean a gap of two days after the end?
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Old 8th February 2008, 09:06   #513
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You mean a gap of two days after the end?


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The forum software doesn't correct anything, I've left two spaces after the question mark
Your point is well proved. Neither did the forum software automatically insert a full stop at the end of your sentence!
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Old 8th February 2008, 09:38   #514
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
That could be true for you, Sam, but not for The Elderly Gentleman. There is a considerable difference in age between the two of you. My age is somewhere in between that of the two of you. There were, quite simply, NO COMPUTERS when we went to school.
Anup, actually my initial post read no computers. Then I thought about what I said. Just because there weren't any available for us, did not mean there were any computers on Planet Earth.

I know you are older, as is Thad. But here are some quotes from wikipedia.

Quote:
Large-scale automated data processing of punched cards was performed for the U.S. Census in 1890 by tabulating machines designed by Herman Hollerith and manufactured by the Computing Tabulating Recording Corporation, which later became IBM.
Quote:
Konrad Zuse's electromechanical "Z machines". The Z3 (1941) was the first working machine featuring binary arithmetic, including floating point arithmetic and a measure of programmability.
In 1998 the Z3 was proved to be Turing complete, therefore being the world's first operational computer.


The non-programmable Atanasoff–Berry Computer (1941) which used vacuum tube based computation, binary numbers, and regenerative capacitor memory.


The secret British Colossus computer (1944), which had limited programmability but demonstrated that a device using thousands of tubes could be reasonably reliable and electronically reprogrammable. It was used for breaking German wartime codes.


The Harvard Mark I (1944), a large-scale electromechanical computer with limited programmability.


The U.S. Army's Ballistics Research Laboratory ENIAC (1946), which used decimal arithmetic and is sometimes called the first general purpose electronic computer (since Konrad Zuse's Z3 of 1941 used electromagnets instead of electronics). Initially, however, ENIAC had an inflexible architecture which essentially required rewiring to change its programming.
So I quickly changed that sentence to be politically correct. There were computers. None we could access.

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 8th February 2008 at 09:43.
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Old 8th February 2008, 09:42   #515
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T
My teachers did not teach me to leave TWO spaces after a full stop. Cannot agree with Ishan about that.
I am afraid I have never heard of this rule either. However I think I know what has caused Ishan's confusion.

When we were in school we were taught to leave 2 blank spaces to the left of the first word in a new paragraph. This is a formal style of writing that is almost dead with the advent of computers.
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Old 8th February 2008, 11:42   #516
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About the 2 spaces after a full-stop thing, they still teach that in Typing Institutes (which teach typing on typewriters). I don't understand why. Maybe it has something to do with how typewriters (at least manual ones, and not electronic ones) work (???).

We have this huge headache getting new typing/data-entry staff to stop doing this in our office, when we get them to type data into computers.
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Old 8th February 2008, 13:39   #517
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Baba, the space came before the spacebar. None of us learned English on the internet. When Thad and I were learning to write, there were no accessible computers and no World Wide Web.

Every school teacher teaches you to leave a little space after a full stop, comma, question mark and every other punctuation mark. It isn't a question of experience. It is simply a question of going to school.

Which is why we are all surprised.
Actually I quite don't remember learning this in School. Even if I did; I may have lost track of it.

Had you guys not corrected me I would have continued to commit this error, and that would surely be a bad thing to happen. Again thanks for correcting me about the same, and I ensure you that you will not see this error in any of my future posts.
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Old 8th February 2008, 13:45   #518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
My teachers did not teach me to leave TWO spaces after a full stop. Cannot agree with Ishan about that.
Well mine did sirji!

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
You mean a gap of two days after the end?


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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Your point is well proved. Neither did the forum software automatically insert a full stop at the end of your sentence!
Actually, Suman edited his post since the software did exactly what I said earlier! I tried it again & as expected if you leave more than one space between the last alphabet & the punctuation it automatically removes the extra space(s).

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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
I am afraid I have never heard of this rule either. However I think I know what has caused Ishan's confusion.

When we were in school we were taught to leave 2 blank spaces to the left of the first word in a new paragraph. This is a formal style of writing that is almost dead with the advent of computers.
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Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post
About the 2 spaces after a full-stop thing, they still teach that in Typing Institutes (which teach typing on typewriters). I don't understand why. Maybe it has something to do with how typewriters (at least manual ones, and not electronic ones) work (???).
No Sam, like Ashok just mentioned we were taught this is Typing class & not in the English class. I distinctly remember our teacher Mrs. Andley insisting that we leave two spaces after using a full stop or colon & one after any other punctuation mark.

And Ashok, it is not based on the typewriter's functioning (I've used both Manual & Electronic) it is just a rule that they have.

EDIT: Found a list of typing rules, read rule #8 on the page for clarification.

Typing Rules

Last edited by iraghava : 8th February 2008 at 13:49. Reason: Adding a link
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Old 8th February 2008, 13:48   #519
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Actually, Suman edited his post since the software did exactly what I said earlier!
Heh-heh Moradabadi detective, spot on, but -
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
I tried it again & as expected if you leave more than one space between the last alphabet & the punctuation it automatically removes the extra space(s).
the other way around actually - between the punctuation & the next alphabet!
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Old 8th February 2008, 14:46   #520
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Just to put one thing aside: it is a quirk of html that it reduces any number of consecutive white spaces (I put six between those last two words) to one space displayed, whereever it occurs in the sentence. It is not sensitive to grammar, and is not correcting anything, I don't think, although there must have been a reason this was designed into the language.

The punctuation mark goes with the word that precedes it (apart from the occasional oddities like dashes and ellipses*) so of course there is space after it --- simply because there is space after the word. We.don't.write,or.type,like.this.

Extra space after punctuation is, as has been commented, something that is added in typing school, and yes, I think I still do it, even in a word processor. It is a matter of style, though, although some rules of style have become as engrained as rules of grammar.

Open a few books from reputable (not 'reputed') English publishers. Many will have indented paragraph beginnings, some will not. It is interesting to see their styles.

Typography suffered a bad time in the late sixties when psychedelia held sway over legibility. It has taken a knock of late too, because anyone can 'do' it, given a word processor.

Not sure, but I might have still been at school when the CEO of a big computer company (DEC?) made his immortalised statement that he could not imagine why anyone should ever have a computer at home!

*Not to mention circles and squares: Help me out here... elipsese? These things --> . . .

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 8th February 2008 at 14:49.
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Old 8th February 2008, 16:05   #521
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
I tried it again & as expected if you leave more than one space between the last alphabet & the punctuation it automatically removes the extra space(s).
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the other way around actually - between the punctuation & the next alphabet!
Both of you - the word you seek is LETTER.

The ALPHABET is the entire set of letters from A to Z.

A single ALPHABET in English comprises of 26 letters.
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Old 8th February 2008, 16:18   #522
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A single ALPHABET in English comprises of 26 letters.
Touche, Sam! Letter it is, french or otherwise.

The term Alphabet was, of course, coined from the first two letters of the Greek Alphabetos namely Alpha & Beta

Last edited by suman : 8th February 2008 at 16:19.
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Old 8th February 2008, 16:22   #523
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french or otherwise.
The master stroke
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Old 8th February 2008, 16:40   #524
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
A single ALPHABET in English comprises of 26 letters.
I'm not a staunch prescriptivist, but "comprises of" is considered incorrect; it should be either "consists of" or "comprises".

There's a "law" that claims any online post pointing out a mistake in another should have at least one error or typo. I wonder...
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Old 8th February 2008, 16:43   #525
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I'm not a staunch prescriptivist, but "comprises of" is considered incorrect; it should be either "consists of" or "comprises".
No, I am pretty sure comprises of is correct usage.

This document comprises of words. I just looked it up.

"To be comprised of" is correct English.
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