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Old 16th July 2007, 11:10   #61
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Sam boss, it is true that a few cannot speak/write English properly here, but isn't that normal. After all we are supposed to be Indian and not Englanders ? Que ?

Can we say the same about any other country who go out of their way to learn and speak any Indian language let's say Hindi/Malayalam ?? Do not intend to nitpick but the end result might seem exactly so, but this attempt to speak propah english among Indians seems to be a vestigial remnant of the colonial times. I have seen Quebecois French who know English quite well, refuse to speak it or speak it in such a way that seems gibberish.

Though we don't need to emulate the Quebecois Francophones yet I feel we need to emphasize on our English speaking skills a bit lesser and polish our native-speaking skills a bit more.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:10   #62
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Anyways is newer. I believe it is a more relaxed and casual way of saying it. It is used in a more relaxed form of conversation and it would not be incorrect to say "Anyways, I'm leaving or You're not interested in me anyways!".
I also think "anyways" is quite all right. But for spoken English, and not for written English.

Writing "anyways" on TBHP would be quite all right as what we write here is as good as conversation, and we aren't using formal English here.

I wouldn't use "anyways" in a formal or even semi-formal letter or email.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:12   #63
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Anyway ( ), how about this - "Give me four points of advice." ?
Perfectly fine. The number four, refers to the points, not the advice itself.

It's like saying "Give me four glasses of water". Absolutely correct.

In my personal opinion, the word "anyway" is not prim and propah to start with, so what's the point of being picky? I prefer many other options to anyway like "In any case"

I forgot to mention - another way of saying anyway is "Anyhow". It's just as casual as anyways.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:15   #64
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Sorry bhpians , but for me it is "Hinglish talking , Not Coming" Looking londOn talking Tokyo hehe

Great Write up Sam.. keep it up... Hey Mods and Sam... i have copy and pasted the whole set on a word file and forwarded to my so called hinglish speaking friends LOLs
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:25   #65
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Wow, excellent thread this one!

A mistake I come across fairly often (mostly spoken rather than written I guess) is the difference between 'until' or 'till' and 'as long as'. These are actually opposite in meaning but I've heard people treat them as synonyms. Consider, if you will:
  1. I will wait here until it stops raining OR
  2. I will wait here till it stops raining OR
  3. I will wait here as long as it rains
All of these are correct (assuming you don't want to get wet) but:
  1. I will wait here till it rains
This means you want to wait till the rain starts and then get soaked
One bad habit of mine is using a slash instead of typing 'or'. Also over-bracketizing I guess.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:28   #66
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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Sam boss, it is true that a few cannot speak/write English properly here, but isn't that normal. After all we are supposed to be Indian and not Englanders ? Que ?

Can we say the same about any other country who go out of their way to learn and speak any Indian language let's say Hindi/Malayalam ??
Probably not, lurker. I appreciate your point. I do not know of any country that attempts to achieve simliar perfection in educational skills, as Indians do. This is probably why we have outstanding techies, Doctors, Engineers, writers, orators and many more. I love our hunger for perfection and desire for knowledge.

Most countries that have English as their first language, consistently murder it. Thad might agree with me (He is English). Very few of my English friends can spell correctly.

We're speaking an international language now. English is no longer the domain of the UK. It is also the chosen form of communication on our beloved forum.
And this thread is a matter of choice and interest. A discussion of a skill that will extend across our personal and professional lives. It is not mandatory to do anything well in life.

The French-Canadians write leave applications at the office and send emails and dirty jokes to each other in French. We do it in English.

Perhaps why Indian business is growing worldwide at this pace, because we are good at the international language of business (and adult jokes).

I didn't choose for it to happen, I was born in an English speaking country, but now that I'm doing it, I'd like to do it well, that's all.

I'd also like to clarify, that the knowledge of correct Hindi is of equal importance, but starting a thread offering advice on Hindi grammar would be difficult on Team-BHP.

So this is merely a hobby and an exercise open only to those who are interested.
I hope you understand

Last edited by Sam Kapasi : 16th July 2007 at 11:31.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:28   #67
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AFAIK, there is no sentance in the English language.
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
Both the punishment (death sentence) and group of words bunched together are both spelt as sentence.
Thanks! That's another, very common mistake made by me.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:30   #68
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Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Sam boss, it is true that a few cannot speak/write English properly here, but isn't that normal. After all we are supposed to be Indian and not Englanders ? Que ?

Can we say the same about any other country who go out of their way to learn and speak any Indian language let's say Hindi/Malayalam ?? Do not intend to nitpick but the end result might seem exactly so, but this attempt to speak propah english among Indians seems to be a vestigial remnant of the colonial times. I have seen Quebecois French who know English quite well, refuse to speak it or speak it in such a way that seems gibberish.
Not addressed at me, but I do have a (somewhat strong) position on this

I think we should not look at it in the their language our language way. Lets face it: English is the global language. Not Hindi or Malayalam. The objective of a language is to communicate. Right now, knowing English is the best bet for getting that done anywhere in the world. If Hindi were the language that could do this, then I would say the same about Hindi.

Now, when we speak (or write), we put ourselves across the same way we do, as we do when we dress or interact with others. So using not-so-good form (grammar, spelling, anything - in any language accepted as the norm for that particular situation) would be akin to dressing shoddily or behaving badly. We would not be putting across our best unless we speak/write well.

And using bad English leaves a negative impression on most people as to the kind of education one has had. This maybe quite unfair, but lets face it, this does happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Though we don't need to emulate the Quebecois Francophones yet I feel we need to emphasize on our English speaking skills a bit lesser and polish our native-speaking skills a bit more.
Why do we need to do this?

- To preserve the heritage of our native language? Yes.
- To make sure what has been written in our native language will continue to be enjoyed for all times to come? Yes.

- To make our native language the normal mode of communication when the rest of the world uses some other language? NO!

Let us say that each state promotes only their language, and makes it compulsory for all official documents and communications (public and private sector) to be in the native language of that state. Just imagine what happens when a Hindi-speaking person, trained to the max in Hindi (and nothing else) comes to work in Kerala where everybody can use only Malayalam?

Take the same example on a global level: We would all be stuck. No commerce would happen. We wouldn't make new friends. Windows would have a couple of thousand versions. The internet would be useless. I'd be writing this in Malayalam and you folk (non-mallus) would be wondering what this guy is saying. etc etc.

Last edited by hydrashok : 16th July 2007 at 11:37.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:36   #69
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Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi View Post
In my personal opinion, the word "anyway" is not prim and propah to start with, so what's the point of being picky? I prefer many other options to anyway like "In any case"
Heh heh. On this point I have no clue whatsoever. 'Anyways' just seems wrong - like too much sugar in tea.

But you are right about the other options, and I like 'in any case' as well.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:42   #70
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I understand what Sam and Hydra are saying here, just wanted to put in my 2 cents in this discussion by saying that for us English is a 'tool'. A means to an end. And hopefully nothing more.

Our pride rests in our language, whether the rest of the world speaks it or not, or acknowledges it or not. I know that a lot of people here do indeed practice in their real lives what I say here and use English only for official purposes but there are a lot of young uns in our society for whom a perception might spread that speaking the English language properly is more important than anything else. Lest their priorities get misplaced, I had to put in my piece.

That being said, this thread has a noble objective and that is one of polishing the language skills of forum members and the effort is highly laudable.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:52   #71
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Oye, bhains ki taang, teri bhains ko bhopa le jaaye. Angrejji ki vyakhya itni vistaar main to hamne kahin nahin padhi....

Per aap shree ek hazaar aath (1008) maharaj ki drishtikone ke padchinho par chalne ka, hum ati sheekhra prayaas karenge....

Humko yeh dekhkar aatmaglaani hoti hai, ki TBHP par aise gyaani mahaa purush ke aagaman hue hain, jisse hum hindi praaniyon ka uddhar nischit hai.

Hum aapki gurudakhshina grahan karne ke liye atyant sujagrut rahenge.

Angrezi bhaasha ki in amoolya stotron ko ham jaise "chatur-chakra vaahini chaalakon" main baantne ke liye hum aapke shath shath aabhari hain, aur sada rahenge.

Yours Faithfully, (Aapka aabhari)

Veyron1.

P.S- One free set of JBL speakers to those who can successfully translate the above script. Courtesy our very own dear centreshock uncleji.
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:53   #72
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I understand what Sam and Hydra are saying here, just wanted to put in my 2 cents in this discussion by saying that for me English is a 'tool'. A means to an end. And hopefully nothing more.
fixed that for you
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Old 16th July 2007, 11:57   #73
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Indian English certainly differs from UK English (much to the amusement of many tourists).

We could discuss whether this is because Indian English has followed a different development, like American English, or whether it is because Indian people make mistakes with the language. It is a moot point, and probably a bit of both.

I wish I had some skill at learning languages, I got a mental block at school. My wife is a patient teacher, but my Tamil knowledge remains almost negligible. Getting deafer is a hindrance to learning this language of subtle sounds too. This I am simply ashamed of.

But Tamil English rubs off on me, and I am likely to say to my wife...

One man came to the door while you were out (one instead of a.

In fact I just took a phone call from someone enquiring after my health and replied, "Some cough is there still".

So now I would have to stop and thing before saying, "I still have a cough"!

So far as the UK is concerned, the Scotish and the Irish have always had reputations for speaking good, grammatical English. The English have a reputation too but it is not a good one!

I can understand those who ask why should we make a fuss, it is not the mother tongue. But can only suggest taking pride in speaking any language well, your own, or some-one else's.

Indian English is also well into another phase; that of its Americanization. On of the most horrible words I have ever heard is upgradation. The last two syllables (half the word) are completely redundant; the word is upgrade.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 16th July 2007 at 12:03.
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Old 16th July 2007, 12:08   #74
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fixed that for you
then I think you are my target audience.
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Old 16th July 2007, 12:28   #75
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
Indian English certainly differs from UK English (much to the amusement of many tourists).

We could discuss whether this is because Indian English has followed a different development, like American English, or whether it is because Indian people make mistakes with the language. It is a moot point, and probably a bit of both.
I think the main problem with Indians speaking (or trying to speak) English is that, it is mostly learned quite late in their life. Hence it is heavily influenced by their native language. In Indic languages, positions of verbs, nouns and adjectives in a sentence are quite different compared to English. And this is the main reason for confusion in Indian speakers and English listeners.

Ofcourse, accent is another problem. And this itself is very different among people in India, ranging from "isskkool" (school) in North to "burrrninggk" (burning) in South. The main problem here is incorrect usage of accent/stress in the syllables. Again, seems to be influenced by the local language.

And thus born Hinglish, Manglish, Banglish etc..

The above issues are comparatively less in "convent educated" people who generally learn to handle English quite early in their life. They usually develops a neutral style different from their native language. However this is still a luxury in most parts of the country.

Last edited by appuchan : 16th July 2007 at 12:30.
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