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Old 7th August 2010, 19:06   #1351
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That is a good point, the essence of language being communication. Like bad handwriting; we should either make our handwriting legible, or not write!.
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Old 7th August 2010, 21:22   #1352
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Originally Posted by mallumowgli View Post
I agree with TEG on this. Taking things to the extreme can result in a language in which one is not able to converse with a person from another region. As an Indian what I speak may not be understood by a Japanese and what the Japanese speak may not be understood by the Australians and so on. So what will be the purpose of such a language, that too English, which is called a universal language?
Good point.

BUt as a govt. employee, it is part of my job to travel, and I have been to most districts in Kerala, talking and interacting with semi-literate and illeterate people. While all of them speak Malayalam, it will be difficult for a person from Kasargod, speaking Malayalam to be understood in Palakkad; or for somebody from Palakkad to be "legible" in Thiruvananthapuram.

Come to think of it, I believe that Tamil in Coimbatore is different from what they speak in Madr .... oops!! Chennai.

Why would English be any different?

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 7th August 2010 at 21:23.
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Old 7th August 2010, 21:26   #1353
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Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
That is a good point, the essence of language being communication. ...
No, Thad, I wish you wouldn't give in so easily!
For lesser mortals (pardon me, that sounds bad!) the essence may be just communication; but for others, (the superior man, as the Chinese refer to him), there is a lot more to it, like elegance and eloquence!
There is a beauty about Queen's English that is not appreciated by all!
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Old 7th August 2010, 21:28   #1354
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Plus, every country has its local version of a language. You don't have to look upto the English Language department at Oxford to sanction your usage of a word.
I am not sure I get your point. I started by saying this usage of crib is peculiar to India. I don't see how the above is relevant to that.
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Old 7th August 2010, 21:55   #1355
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No, Thad, I wish you wouldn't give in so easily!
In principle, I don't. I still rave against updation, upgradation, etc. Horrible words that are born, not in the logic of language, but out of ignorance. I refudiate them absolutely!

I have to admit, though, that it is a lost cause. These words appear in Government advertisments, etc.

British dialects used to be very different. They are still strongly noticable, but just about anybody in UK, these days, can understand just about everybody else. Understanding, of course, is the name of the game, but reducing local accents and dialects to shades of ugly grey is almost as bad as loosing languages.

The whole idea of "standard", English in the early days of the BBC, was very far from being snobbish. Quite the opposite was the case: it was strictly kept that way so that everybody, regardless of district, class or level of education would be able to understand it.
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Old 7th August 2010, 22:12   #1356
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I am not sure I get your point. I started by saying this usage of crib is peculiar to India. I don't see how the above is relevant to that.
What I meant was that even if the word 'crib' is not used in English-speaking regions like Australia, US or UK, it doesn't make it wrong as long as its meaning doesn't vary in a particular region.
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Old 7th August 2010, 22:27   #1357
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Originally Posted by anku94 View Post
What I meant was that even if the word 'crib' is not used in English-speaking regions like Australia, US or UK, it doesn't make it wrong as long as its meaning doesn't vary in a particular region.

I never was arguing whether it was wrong or right - I was just saying that it was peculiar to India.
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Old 8th August 2010, 00:07   #1358
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
I never was arguing whether it was wrong or right - I was just saying that it was peculiar to India.
Call it preventive defence .
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Old 8th August 2010, 09:47   #1359
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Good point.

BUt as a govt. employee, it is part of my job to travel, and I have been to most districts in Kerala, talking and interacting with semi-literate and illeterate people. While all of them speak Malayalam, it will be difficult for a person from Kasargod, speaking Malayalam to be understood in Palakkad; or for somebody from Palakkad to be "legible" in Thiruvananthapuram.

Come to think of it, I believe that Tamil in Coimbatore is different from what they speak in Madr .... oops!! Chennai.

Why would English be any different?
Yes. In the case of illiterate/semi literate what you are saying is correct. But what the literate Malayali speaks in Kasargode can be understood very well by a guy from Neyyattinkara, if the guy speaking opts to speak properly. So in my opinion, though it would be nice to know about 'crib' and 'prepone', it would be better if the english literate, try to avoid such words if we are seriuos about the language. Having worked for an Indian subsidiary of an US MNC, I know how careful I should be when I send an email - it is my requirement that the receiver understands what Iam writing, correct?
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Old 8th August 2010, 09:53   #1360
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Please Help--
What is correct?
Most respectfully submit:-
OR
Most Respectfully submit:-

Purpose--Petition to be filed in Court.
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Old 8th August 2010, 12:13   #1361
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I think you need a legal thread, not an English language thread!

In this instance, correctness is determined by custom. Unless a lawyer member comes along, I suggest you ask a lawyer, or even one of the document writers that are to be found clustered around courts and register offices. They will know the form as they probably type it a hundred times a day!
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Old 8th August 2010, 16:52   #1362
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Hello guys,
I recently came across this American way of placing periods and commas inside a quotation.

British:
We all love our automobiles, that's why we are here in "Team-BHP".

American:
We all love our automobiles, that's why we are here in "Team-BHP."

Notice the difference in the placement of the period. This difference also applies to the position of commas.

Anybody here aware of this? What do you guys follow as standard?
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Old 8th August 2010, 17:15   #1363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Come to think of it, I believe that Tamil in Coimbatore is different from what they speak in Madr .... oops!! Chennai.
Well, it would be different alright, but perfectly understandable. Ditto with Madurai, Tirunelveli, and Nagercoil Tamil. As Mallumowgli says, a little difficulty may arise when spoken by uneducated sections of society in the respective areas. The exception is Palakkad Tamil, which can confuse even the trained ear as to whether one is hearing Tamil or Malayalam!

BTW the much abused (in film comedy) Madras Tamil is spoken only by slum dwellers, rickshaw pullers, roadside vendors etc. BTW it is a variant of the North Arcot (Vellore) Tamil, interspersed with a little Telugu, Hindi and Urdu!

BTW Thad, I wonder how many English dialects are there in England (not the UK)? I am intrigued because England and Tamil Nadu are almost the same size (~ 130,000 Sq.Km). We have about seven Tamil varieties, not counting the external ones - Sri Lanka Tamil, Malaysia Tamil etc.

Last edited by Gansan : 8th August 2010 at 17:21.
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Old 9th August 2010, 00:54   #1364
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SilentEngine, there is a rule/method to whether the punctuation goes before or after the quotation mark. I've forgotten it --- and sometimes put both, to be on the safe side!*

Gansan, I don't know:certainly it would have been more than seven, but these things are, as I mentioned, being blurred. Perhaps now, there is a "North-country" accent, but I'm sure you would be able to hear a difference between Yorkshire and Lancashire, at least if the speakers were of older generations. I used to be able to tell the difference between the North and South coasts of Cornwall!

Certain cities have their distinctive dialects and accents. Birmingham, Liverpool, Newcastle --- to name but a few. A broad Newcastle accent is incomprehensible to outsiders!


*Which would be very wrong. Recently, in discussing the complete gibberish published as a concert review in The Hindu, Somebody gave a link to The Economist Style Guide. It's fascinating. Here's what it has to say about quotes


.

Last edited by Thad E Ginathom : 9th August 2010 at 01:05.
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Old 9th August 2010, 08:10   #1365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
..... I refudiate them absolutely!
.....
We are not Sarah, now, are we?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom View Post
....
Gansan, I don't know:certainly it would have been more than seven, but these things are, as I mentioned, being blurred. ....
They did tell me that accents (and, maybe, dialects?) change every seven miles in Northern Ireland!
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