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Old 27th July 2007, 20:23   #31
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I have read quite a few articles that talk about the use of flying machines in the era of the Ramayana & the Mahabharata. Bhim used to fly a machine that could travel into space ,and it could not be seen by the naked eye.

It just indicates that earlier civilizations had a lot of knowledge,and its also believed that other life forms from various planets used to visit the earth. Not sure how much of that is true, but with minute details being written in the scriptures, its quite possible that its true to a large extent.

I'm pretty sure that aeroplanes/flying machines were made by Indians many thousands of years ago, and it could very well be the same with scientists/discoverers in the 17/18/19th century.
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Old 27th July 2007, 20:26   #32
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Yes. and we even knew the effects of the atomic bomb. (ref: Ashwatthama's chastisement in the Mahabharata). We also flew mind controlled aircraft etc. etc.

Come on. Give me a break. So what if we created the plane. If we did, we should have been ruling the world. And thank god I am not a citizen of the other proud Asian country called China. I am sure there are tonnes of such stories over there.
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Old 27th July 2007, 21:59   #33
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I find this really weird?
How can things like zero aeroplane atomic bomb be invented in India thousands of years ago???
There was no india thousands of years ago. India came into existence on 15th August 1947.
Before that it was part of Britain, before than the Mughal empire, before that multiple kings ruled.... you can go back as much as you can.
A totally different civilization existed in those times. Infact some of the civilizations like indus valley civilizations etc., existed thousands of years ago and their culture and methods have totally vanished.
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Old 27th July 2007, 22:08   #34
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Originally Posted by Nitin View Post
I have read quite a few articles that talk about the use of flying machines in the era of the Ramayana & the Mahabharata. Bhim used to fly a machine that could travel into space ,and it could not be seen by the naked eye.

It just indicates that earlier civilizations had a lot of knowledge,and its also believed that other life forms from various planets used to visit the earth. Not sure how much of that is true, but with minute details being written in the scriptures, its quite possible that its true to a large extent.

I'm pretty sure that aeroplanes/flying machines were made by Indians many thousands of years ago, and it could very well be the same with scientists/discoverers in the 17/18/19th century.

The true effects of watching serials on DD & having to live away from the motherland.

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Originally Posted by typeOnegative View Post
Yes. and we even knew the effects of the atomic bomb. (ref: Ashwatthama's chastisement in the Mahabharata). We also flew mind controlled aircraft etc. etc.

Come on. Give me a break. So what if we created the plane. If we did, we should have been ruling the world. And thank god I am not a citizen of the other proud Asian country called China. I am sure there are tonnes of such stories over there.
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I find this really weird?
How can things like zero aeroplane atomic bomb be invented in India thousands of years ago???
There was no india thousands of years ago. India came into existence on 15th August 1947.
Before that it was part of Britain, before than the Mughal empire, before that multiple kings ruled.... you can go back as much as you can.
A totally different civilization existed in those times. Infact some of the civilizations like indus valley civilizations etc., existed thousands of years ago and their culture and methods have totally vanished.
absolutely agree. Come on guys, try to spend your time & energy on something we can truly call our own invention without having to guess it or blame somebody for not recognising us. This is the 21st century & let us be worthy contenders to everything there is for contending including cricket.
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Old 27th July 2007, 22:27   #35
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errr... India is just a name given to this ancient civilization. We would have been the same civilization, same culture (albeit adapted to modern day), same race (with a more interesting Gene mix now than before), and same skin color whether we are called India, America or even Pakistan.

The basis of our civilization, religion, culture or what have you has the basis in the same 4 vedas and 200 upasanas. The religions we follow have a basis in those ancient texts, the language we speak come for that ancient language. Yes, it may not look and feel the same today but the underlying beliefs are the same.

If you only want to consider history, even then India existed long before the brits or the mughals came. The Mauryas ruled a vast stretch of the sub-continent stretching from modern day afghanistan to Bhutan in the east. They were so powerful that even the Bactrian kings (Successors of Alexander ruling parts of Afghanistan) used to pay them tributes in return for protection. Then you have the Kushans, the Pallavas, Cholas etc. If this is not single state rule, what is?

Coming back to topic:

It would be fooling, IMO, to claim that Indians invented airplanes, atom bombs, space travel. They simply did not have the technology at that time. However, it is not foolish to think that ancient Indians came up with the idea of flying when man could only walk.

DaVinci gets credit for inventing helicopted but he never made a real flying machine. He only came up with the idea that flight is possible with two rotating blades. H.G.Wells (or is it Jules Verne) did not invent space travel or space station. He only imagined that in future it is possible to have a space station and in his drew a torroidal shaped space station. Today many people credit wells for inventing space travel.

In todays world you can patent ideas whether you have a working prototype or not. You can patent a 1000 MW Generator of the size of a palm that runs on solar power and you can still patent it. Tomorrow when someone really invents a Palm sized 1000 MW generator, he would have to pay you royality. You wont be the inventor but the idea is yours. This, IMO, is the case with ancient Indians.
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Old 27th July 2007, 22:33   #36
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If you only want to consider history, even then India existed long before the brits or the mughals came. The Mauryas ruled a vast stretch of the sub-continent stretching from modern day afghanistan to Bhutan in the east. They were so powerful that even the Bactrian kings (Successors of Alexander ruling parts of Afghanistan) used to pay them tributes in return for protection. Then you have the Kushans, the Pallavas, Cholas etc. If this is not single state rule, what is?

I have no idea about upashanaas & stuff, but are you seriously suggesting that the cholas & the pallavas ruled this piece of land that is called India now ? Man, i studied history about 25 years ago, but i don't think i am that old or stupid. These were kings south of india & the cholas never even went past TN. come on give us a break.
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Old 27th July 2007, 22:50   #37
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absolutely agree. Come on guys, try to spend your time & energy on something we can truly call our own invention without having to guess it or blame somebody for not recognising us. This is the 21st century & let us be worthy contenders to everything there is for contending including cricket.
The problem, dear esteem_lover, is that the average modern day Indian is a product of an education system geared to produce macaulay children. Someone who cannot take pride in his own history unless he is told by a white man that yes, he may take pride in it. How can this modern macaulyte kid recognize the achievement of his 21st century Indian brethren when it is ingrained in him through centuries of brainwashing that Indians are not capable of inventing anything?

History is proof that no great scientist/philosopher was ever recognized during his/her time. They all became famous centuries after their death. Galelio and Socrates were killed by their own societies and only became famous centuries later. This is your time to recognize your history. You will be recognized when you become history. Think about it, why is Aristotle, Socrates, Confusius such well known names while the Vedic philosophers weren't?
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Old 27th July 2007, 23:11   #38
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I have no idea about upashanaas & stuff, but are you seriously suggesting that the cholas & the pallavas ruled this piece of land that is called India now ? Man, i studied history about 25 years ago, but i don't think i am that old or stupid. These were kings south of india & the cholas never even went past TN. come on give us a break.
I said the Mauryas ruled a major part of inhabited India. Cholas, Pallavas and Kushans were large empires but didn't rule entire India. Keep in mind that after Ashoka buddhism and the associated ahimsa philosophy took strong hold in India with majority of kings converting to buddhism and reneging war till sankaracharya time. So India remained a cluster of small states as no one king took initiative to expand territorially, instead they tried to win mindspace by sending missionaries world wide. Without ever drawing sword or setting foot on foreign land we invaded most of East Asia.
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Old 27th July 2007, 23:22   #39
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
This is your time to recognize your history. You will be recognized when you become history.
dude, i have no idea if you are arguing for or against the first post.

i think what you mean to say is recognize the history, but do not take it too far to interfere with today's science.

or it is something else?
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Old 27th July 2007, 23:32   #40
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It has nothing to do with the first post, I don't believe Indians have invented planes or atom bombs. The destruction that Bramha-astra creates, as described in puranas, may be close to the affects of todays atom bomb but it doesnt mean that ancient indians had atom bombs.

What I am trying to say is the above post is that History is as important as present because it affects the sub-concious psyche. A major part of social-engineering, i.e., brainwashing, is to control and disseminate information in a way that suits the powers that want to control us.
If today all the kids in school read that India was never a british colony and that we always had been one ruler state, they would end up growing differently than you and I did.
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Old 27th July 2007, 23:41   #41
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Originally Posted by esteem_lover View Post
I have no idea about upashanaas & stuff, but are you seriously suggesting that the cholas & the pallavas ruled this piece of land that is called India now ? Man, i studied history about 25 years ago, but i don't think i am that old or stupid. These were kings south of india & the cholas never even went past TN. come on give us a break.
Not to be rude but you read history 25 years ago and its showing . Cholas did go past TN. They want waaaaaaay past TN, till *gasp* Bengal and kicked the ar$e of the ruler of Patliputra, modern Patna. Rajendra Cholan is called Gangaikondacholan, which means the one who reached till Ganga. And not just India, they even went to Malaysia, Indonesia, parts of Thailand etc.

Here is a link for you, from wiki

Chola Dynasty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

About the whole issue whether India built the aeroplane or not, well obviously no. Maybe our ancestors had the idea, but they certainly didn't build it. But we must give credit to them to think about all this. And stuff like Brahmastra which had power of nukes

"It is said that when a Brahmastra is used there will be famine on earth and for 12 years there would be no flora and fauna where it was used, unless the weapon is withdrawn properly following the procedure laid down in the scriptures.

Interestingly it may also be noted that the description of the Brahmastra's use corresponds strikingly to present day idea of a Nuclear War. It says that " It shined like a bolt of lightning brighter than thousand suns shining together, There arose a majestic cloud of light and dust, so big that it reached to the sun and shadowed it, everything was destroyed as far as one can see and nothing survived"
"

I mean take a look at it. Now that description seems like the destruction caused by nuclear weapons. We must give our ancestors some credit to think about this while the rest of the world was going around naked and still eating raw flesh.

Never mind the present situation and the filth we are in, oh well. But we shouldn't discredit our past.




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Old 28th July 2007, 00:00   #42
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What I am trying to say is the above post is that History is as important as present because it affects the sub-concious psyche. A major part of social-engineering, i.e., brainwashing, is to control and disseminate information in a way that suits the powers that want to control us.
If today all the kids in school read that India was never a british colony and that we always had been one ruler state, they would end up growing differently than you and I did.
Hi Mayavi,

Great thinking man.I agree with your views.Indeed History makes much difference but unfortunately we lost it during the ruling of british & others.If we want to look ahead then we need to first study past which we lost.

India is considered as origin of many many ideas & inventions.In that sense we have tremendous amount of knowledge.I do agree that idea of flying machines must be with us but cant prove it.
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Old 28th July 2007, 00:13   #43
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dear mayavi, honestly i am astonished by the amount of history you know, but from the very little i know & i am not guessing is that the cholans, pandyans, cherans & pallavans had nothing to do beyond the boundaries of what is called as TN. But your statement here seems to confuse me

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Then you have the Kushans, the Pallavas, Cholas etc. If this is not single state rule, what is?
what single state were they ruling ?

Yes, we do have a history that we can be proud of, but that is not enough motivation for a simpleton like me to work harder. I wish my ancestors did some hard working & hard thinking instead of plundering each other's wealth & destroying each other. These are just my views & please do not start flame wars here.
cheers

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Old 28th July 2007, 00:22   #44
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Default Another contender:CLEMENT ADER

In the early 1870s Clement Ader created an ornithopter, an engine to which flapping wings were attached, but it failed to fly. Then Ader went to Algeria to study the flight of vultures and discovered that once airborne they rarely flapped their wings. He promptly scrapped the design of the ornithopter as impractical. In order to fly, he decided, a machine must have fixed wings and an engine capable of lifting it off the ground. Back in France, he built his first airplane, the Eole (named for Aeolus, the Greek god of the winds).

The Eole had bat-shaped wings and was driven by a steam engine attached to a four-blade propeller. Ader tested his airplane near Gretz-Armainvilliers on Oct. 9, 1890, and claimed that he accomplished a takeoff and a powered flight of approximately 165 ft. There were a few witnesses to his feat but they were not familiar with aeronautics, and consequently none of them reported what he saw. Ader asserted that he had tested the Eole a second time at the army base at Satory near Versailles in September of 1891 and flew roughly 330 ft. above the ground before crashing. There supposedly was only one witness; he did not make a statement to authorities about what he saw. Ader himself did not publicly report this flight until 1906.

Leonardo da Vinci designed a flying machine in the 15th century and we all are aware of our very own flying machine in Ramayana.

This controversy will never come to an end because its not just a matter of who devised a craft that got off the ground. It depends on how one defines a flight.
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Old 28th July 2007, 00:28   #45
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My great grandfather invented an aeroplane. I have it and use it to go clubbing on weekends. It's invisible too, so no one notices it. India will be a superpower.
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