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Old 27th July 2007, 05:31   #1
Ram
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Default Did India invent the aeroplane?

Friends...

Stumbled across this fascinating piece of reading.

=======================

An interesting claim about the Indian science of aeronautics and
and the ancient research by the rishi-scientist, Acharya Bharadwaj is
that an Indian successfully tested them actual practice 112 years ago.

In 1895, fully eight years before the Wright Brothers’ first flight at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, USA,
Mr. Shivkar Bapuji Talpade of Bombay and his wife (reportedly) gave a thrilling demonstration flight on Chowpatty beach, Bombay.

Talpade’s aircraft used an ion engine in 1895 working on mercurial pressure (Paarad-Rasa).

A Mercury vortex ion engine works by emission of heavy charged particles.
Both mercury and iron were available to ancient civilizations. It is not hard to imagine that they could figure out that heating mercury and pouring it out from a small nozzle would ionize it and create rocket thrust.

The white man credits something like this to Robert Goddard, who invented liquid-fuel rocketry in 1906.

Talpade of Bombay, was an erudite scholar of Sanskrit literature, especially of the Vedas, an inventor and a teacher in the School of Arts.
His deep study of the Vedas led him to construct an aircraft conforming to their descriptions. The aircraft was displayed in an exhibition arranged by the Bombay Art Society in the Town Hall.

For, the 190th richa (verse) of the Rig Veda and the aeronautical treatise of Bharadwaj mention that flying machines came into full operation when solar energy, mercury and another chemicals called naksha rasas were blended together.

This energy was, supposedly, stored in something like an accumulator or storage batteries. The Vedas mention eight different engines in the plane, all electrical in nature.

In his experiments, Talpade was aided by his wife, also a deep Vedic scholar, and an architect-friend. The aircraft combined the constructional characteristics of both Pushpaka and Marut Sakha, the sixth and eighth types of aircraft described by Acharya Bharadwaj.

Talpade named it "Marut Sakhaa" -- friend of the wind.

In 1895, this pioneering Indian aeronautical product attained a height of about 1,500 feet above the Chowpatty beach, Bombay and landed safely.

This flight was witnessed, by Shrimant Maharaj Sir Sayajirao III Gaekwad (1863-1939) and Justice Mahadev Govind Ranade (1842–1901) among many others. The Kesari, a leading Marathi daily newspaper reported it in 1895. The Maharaja of Baroda and Justice Ranade were impressed and rewarded the talented inventor.

Unfortunately, Talpade lost all interest in things after his wife’s death.
After Talpade's own death in 1917 at 53, his relatives sold the aircraft to the Rally Brothers, Bombay, a leading British exporting firm.

Thus, the first ever attempt at flying in modern India, undertaken and made successful by an Indian, in an airplane of Indian manufacture built to Indian scientific specifications, was relegated to the dustbin of oblivion.

Here are some of the links
Ancient Hindus could navigate the airBy Shachi Rairikar
Audarya Fellowship
Hindu Wisdom - Vimanas

=======================

The Aeronautical Research Development Board, New Delhi commissioned the Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote, near Mandya, to take up a one-year study on ‘Non-conventional Approach to Aeronautics’, on the basis of Vaimaanik Shastra.

As a result of the research, a glass-like stealth material invisible to radar has been developed by a certain Prof. Dongre, a BHU research scholar. An airplane coated with this unique material is immune to radar.

Your thoughts?

Ram
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Old 27th July 2007, 06:13   #2
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we have beaten to death the stories of aryabhat inventing zero and silicon valley having so and so number of indian CEOs.

now this.

even if something like this happened, what will ANYBODY gain with these stories now? we know how dull and corrupt we are, still we find myths and mysteries to amuse ourselves.
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Old 27th July 2007, 06:21   #3
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we have beaten to death the stories of aryabhat inventing zero and silicon valley having so and so number of indian CEOs.

now this.
Aryabhatta did not invent zero. No one knows who actually invented zero but we know for sure that it was an Indian from one of the western states. There is a 1500 year old temple on whose walls zero was inscribed. This is the first instance in history where zero was used.

As for the claim of Indian inventing the modern airplane, believe it when you see some proof. Many people actually credit a Brazilian inventor living in Paris to have invented the first 'controlled flight' a good 6 years before wright brothers. This one has more substance as it was printed in then parisian news papers.

So if someone can provide proof that Talapade invented airplane, tough luck bud... you should have taken a picture of that thing. You didn't, wright brothers and thats what matters in history.
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Old 27th July 2007, 06:28   #4
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There is a 1500 year old temple on whose walls zero was inscribed. This is the first instance in history where zero was used.
you mean a circle? you can find it even in much more ancient civilizations.
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Old 27th July 2007, 06:54   #5
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you mean a circle? you can find it even in much more ancient civilizations.
hahaha... what if I tell you that this has been established by 'western' researchers. Would you then believe it? Surely they a There is a Discovery Channel documentary on Indian contribution to mathematics where they showed the temple which has '0' inscribed on it to indicate a number. Its not a crop circle, its a real zero in a number.
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Old 27th July 2007, 07:12   #6
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hahaha... what if I tell you that this has been established by 'western' researchers.
no, if you say you have seen the mathematical usage of the so called zero, i believe you. I was not aware of that. i don't need western scientists' theories.

the fact that more false and baseless claims come from our own country than the westerner's is a fact true by itself.
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Old 27th July 2007, 08:01   #7
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no, if you say you have seen the mathematical usage of the so called zero, i believe you. I was not aware of that. i don't need western scientists' theories.
See the problem? You were saying that others are wrong because you are not aware of it.

I do know that there is so much rubbish that gets posted on internet. Instead of blindly rubbishing those claims, we should keep an open mind till something is conclusively proven to be correct.

Now do Vedas contain secrets to making flying objects? Hard to believe but I wont rubbish it because I haven't read the said Vedas. Is it possible that they might have possessed the technology to make planes? Again very very hard to believe but it is quite possible that they may have had some ideas about what should go into a plane. Keep in mind that some 21st century countries cannot build ships the size Romans built. Alexanders battle tactics are still studied and used in modern warfare and no modern philosopher is as great as 2500 year old greek philosophers. So people 2000 years back were capable of doing many things which todays man cannot do.
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Old 27th July 2007, 08:19   #8
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i read about this a while back when i had very little work to do.....looks like this could be another of those "internet" things like the Taj Mahal story.


I will add some more links to the pile from my bookmarks:

Ancient Aircraft - Crystalinks

World Mysteries - Strange Artifacts, Ancient Flying Machines

The Anti-Gravity Handbook - UFO Evidence

A very interesting site that describes the birth of biological warfare & AI (artificial intelligence) is below. Seems pretty mundane but the time period in question is 25000 years ago!!

The Atlantis That Could Have Been: A Lost Civilization on the Southeast Asian Peninsula, Circa 25,125 BC- 13,875 BC?

The gist of these is that during the Ramayana period, technology had advanced enough for people to build aircraft of the type described in ram's article.

Some other articles that I read even suggested that the famous Brahmastra used in the Mahabharata was in fact a thermonuclear device!! The evidence is that the description in the Mahabharata is remarkably similar to that of a nuclear holocaust after the weapon was used.

Now my opinion is that on the one hand these things can be dismissed as being bosh and nonsense. But given the Indian way of recording history and propagating knowledge, there is an equal chance that it might have been true. The biggest hurdle is of course the language in which the Vedas etc. were written: Sanskrit. The fact of the matter is that literateurs cannot translate technical language very well. So much of the technical stuff described there cannot be translated into its modern equivalent without sounding cheesy. Thats where we Indians have lost out on a lot of wisdom from the early manuscripts.
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Old 27th July 2007, 08:58   #9
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How far we will go fishing for western compliment and approval for our own abilities, self-confidence and raison d'être, comes out starkly when we repeatedly encounter positions such as,
"All Oriental claims are baseless unless authenticated by The Occident".

Here's more.
"Yoga, meditation and Bharat Natyam and growing Basmati are best learned in the advanced West, where the brightest and most upright people are found. Back home here, we are all merely dull and corrupt".
I've even heard it said that "The best Indian restaurants are found in California". Yada yada ad nauseum.

OT: An interesting phrase, I've come across and you may have come across it too is,
"Amateurs built and operated the Ark. Professionals built and operated the the Titanic"
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Old 27th July 2007, 09:31   #10
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Both are wrong. The aeroplane was invented millions of years ago. 10,000 years ago an ancient civilization was driven out of its home planet by their exploding star. They scrouged the universe but could not find anything habitable. So they sent out their "pods" with DNA etc., in random directions. Some of them landed on earth, and altered the brains of a primate living on trees, with the imprint of that civilazation, and kickstarted evolution.
They invented aeroplane.

As for resturants, the best ones are found in Punjab not california.
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Old 27th July 2007, 09:47   #11
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How come no one has mentioned the telepathic Pushpaka Vimana of Ravana which could fly as he wished to any destination with any number of people. Something like Vertical take-off spaceships seen in movies
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Old 27th July 2007, 10:01   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram View Post
....
His deep study of the Vedas led him to construct an aircraft conforming to their descriptions.
....
For, the 190th richa (verse) of the Rig Veda and the aeronautical treatise of Bharadwaj mention that flying machines came into full operation when solar energy, mercury and another chemicals called naksha rasas were blended together.

This energy was, supposedly, stored in something like an accumulator or storage batteries. The Vedas mention eight different engines in the plane, all electrical in nature.
....
So airplanes require Solar energy, mercury and naksha rasas. What are these naksha rasas? Does it exist. If it exists why didn't they build a prototype then? If it didn't exist then naksha rasas are just a fantasy substance (like an alchemist's philosopher's stone).

I wonder if Vedas had a mention about Computer Architecture also
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Old 27th July 2007, 10:41   #13
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well - it is possible - all our ancient scriptures talk about flying objects. So in a way - we as indian's might have theoretically invented - and who knows might have done it as well - many many things. Brain surgery and the first university. The problem is as Ram pointed out - we put ourselves down first.
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Old 27th July 2007, 10:57   #14
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Airplanes are based on Bernoulli's principle. This principle was formulated in 17th century. The design of an airplane (similar to Wright Brothers) would be based on this principle. If somebody had thought about the design much earlier, then they should have known this principle. But no such reference is found.

Actually the concept of flight is from nature - Birds. So any civilization would have wanted to fly like a bird.

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well - it is possible - all our ancient scriptures talk about flying objects. So in a way - we as indian's might have theoretically invented - and who knows might have done it as well - many many things. Brain surgery and the first university. The problem is as Ram pointed out - we put ourselves down first.
Lord of Rings talks about middle earth and many such fantasies. Has Tolkien invent that theoretically?

There is no need to put down ourselves. If we have achieved that, no point in denying. But shows us proof. Otherwise this will end up as Ramar Pillai's experiment.
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Old 27th July 2007, 11:00   #15
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From time immemorial, man has dreamed of flying - it is something very basic that is found across all civilizations (like the desire for immortality).

That's perhaps why, history is full of stories of inventors who built machines in the hope of achieving flight. (e.g. Michaelangelo's famous flying machine).

The reason the Wright Brother's hold the record is that they were the first one's with a successfully recorded flight. Other claims like this really need hard evidence to be taken seriously.
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