Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 25th June 2008, 22:01   #136
Newbie
 
abhijeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi, Indi
Posts: 13
Thanked: Once
Default

Hmm... this thread seems to be hotting up though not all of what has been said here is entirely accurate!

First off, IMHO the best Indian made air-rifles are made by the Indian Hume Pipe Ltd. in Gujarat. They are marketed under the "National" brand name for their .177 cal models and IHP for their .22 cal models. These are basically copies of 1960's-70's Diana air-rifles... the triggers are of the direct sear variety and therefore horrendous for any kind of accuracy but other than that they are OK for the price band which is circa INR 3,500/- or so. If a local dealer tries to scalp them off at a much higher price, just mail order them off the Internet from Aimco air rifle, air pistol, pellets

As to safety - YES - airguns are NOT toys and can cause serious injury if handled improperly so ALL of the rules of firearm safety apply to airguns. You can read them in detail at Abhijeet Singh - Firearm Safety - however the garden variety of spring piston airguns which are made in India would not under normal circumstances be able to cause death! It would really have to be a freak accident for that to happen as these guns simply do not have that kind of power. Various airguns have widely varied effective range/ dangerous range - the ones made in India would have a hard time crossing 25m (effective)/ 50m (dangerous) and I'm being generous here! This does not mean that their pellet will not travel further than 50m - it simply means the pellet will not have enough energy to penetrate anything beyond that range.

If you wish to practice on your terrace, you can actually do that quite safely if you use a good dose of common sense, in fact one of the best things about airguns is that they allow you to get in a lot more practice as setting up a SAFE shooting range at home for airguns is fairly simple. You need to first off make sure that you have a decent backstop (a brick wall of decent height is good enough), secondly buy/ fabricate a decent pellet trap this will serve as a target holder as well as prevent any ricochets, besides collecting the spent pellets for easy disposal. Anyhow more on that at When you have an airgun, home IS the range!

Airguns do not require a license in India - YES AND NO! Yes, up to a certain power limit airguns do not require an arms license of any kind - however any airgun which has power in excess of this limit REQUIRES an arms license! This power limit is determined through a rather crude wood penetration test, but since none of the airguns made in India would cross this limit you really need not bother about it unless you are considering an imported airgun.

The falling bullets story - Yes falling bullets from a high powered rifle can be dangerous and can actually (sometimes) cause serious injury, however they do not retain enough energy to cause death barring some sort of freak situation. There was a detailed study conducted by the US military in circa 1930's trying to explore the feasibility/ effectiveness of falling bullets on enemy troops, the calibre of the gun used was the (at that time) US standard issue .30-06 cartridge. The study concluded that falling bullets retained less than required energy to incapacitate and/ or kill enemy troops - a google search should get you to the required website with the results of that study. Of course it would be very irresponsible to start shooting off in the air with a high powered rifle, as even if the risk of injury from falling bullets is low, it still exists. Most deaths caused by people shooting guns in the air are actually caused by the bullets on their way up rather than on their way down.

And yes you can actually (legally) import an airgun, more on that on the following threads:

Indians For Guns - Importing airguns into India
Indians For Guns - Airgun import experiences - via post/ courier route
Indians For Guns - Airgun import experiences - via personal baggage route

Crosman & Daisy have a rich history of making airguns - however Daisy mostly produces very low powered BB guns (which shoot spherical steel *****) and only a few pellet gun models. Many of the Crosman's are actually made in China these days... If you are looking to go through the hassle of importing an airgun I would strongly suggest a bit more research into various brands/ models before embarking on this. If thinking of buying a CO2 or PCP model - do factor in the added cost of purchasing CO2 powerlets/ a source for bulk filling CO2 (if your model has this option) OR a high pressure air pump and related accessories (for the PCP).

If you are considering importing one the regular spring piston air-rifles, do check out the following brands - AirArms (UK), Weihrauch (Germany), Diana (Germany) - more or less in that order.

HTH & safe shooting!
Cheers!
Abhijeet
abhijeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2008, 22:12   #137
Newbie
 
abhijeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi, Indi
Posts: 13
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker View Post
Abhijeet, it is the duty of strong and powerful to keep voiceless and defenseless people weak.

Similarly it is the duty of the weak to protect themselves with whatever weapons and methods they find it feasible.

When sufficient number of weak will bear weapons and arms then laws will change by itself to suit the new reality. The weak will never get power just by asking .. it has to be obtained by force.

this has always been the unwritten law of nature.
Civil liberties is currently a non-issue in this country, gun rights being a sub-set of that is similarly doomed - I mean you read reports every day in the newspapers of the cops/ CBI conducting "narco-analysis" on suspects!! What is that about, if not simply a matter of shooting several mg's of truth serum into their blood stream??!! Are they even required to get the suspects permission before they do that?

As to the weak taking up arms - this is precisely the reason why we have such backward looking gun laws here. Getting a gun permit has never been hard for the well connected and never will be... self-entitled thugs like Manu Sharma will continue to pack guns and terrorise normal citizens... while the masses will continue to remain unarmed and powerless to shoot back to defend themselves!

Cheers!
Abhijeet
abhijeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th June 2008, 22:39   #138
Senior - BHPian
 
straight6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,333
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

I think its impossible to get a license now unless you know a politician and can prove that you need that for self defense since you are a big shot and threatened. My father has two guns as it was easier to get a license in those days. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would love to own guns because I love them just like cars and bikes. Is there an easier way to get the license these days?
straight6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 01:18   #139
Newbie
 
abhijeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi, Indi
Posts: 13
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by straight6 View Post
I think its impossible to get a license now unless you know a politician and can prove that you need that for self defense since you are a big shot and threatened. My father has two guns as it was easier to get a license in those days. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would love to own guns because I love them just like cars and bikes. Is there an easier way to get the license these days?
Check out the following thread:
Indians For Guns - Applying for an Arms License in India
It should help clear any doubts you have about the process of applying for an arms license in India.

HTH

Cheers!
Abhijeet
abhijeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 08:12   #140
BHPian
 
vinayvtec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 390
Thanked: 8 Times
Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by straight6 View Post
I think its impossible to get a license now unless you know a politician and can prove that you need that for self defense since you are a big shot and threatened. My father has two guns as it was easier to get a license in those days. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I would love to own guns because I love them just like cars and bikes. Is there an easier way to get the license these days?
Hey it’s not that difficult to get the gun license, but it’s difficult to buy a good gun it will cost you some where about 2-3 lacs. After you get the gun license I think within 3 months you even need to register the gun that you use. Also you need to have permit for carrying it where ever you go, if you are a business man or a criminal layer it’s really easy to clear the deal. If you need more details do let me know I will get you.

When I picked up the car, my uncle also picked up a guy he paid half off what I paid for my car. I think its better to speak on the car and bike then to go for a gun.

You might even get some country made guys it's as bad as country drinks.
vinayvtec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 09:12   #141
BHPian
 
RedMM340's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: on the move
Posts: 459
Thanked: 22 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijeet View Post
Civil liberties is currently a non-issue in this country, gun rights being a sub-set of that is similarly doomed - I mean you read reports every day in the newspapers of the cops/ CBI conducting "narco-analysis" on suspects!! What is that about, if not simply a matter of shooting several mg's of truth serum into their blood stream??!! Are they even required to get the suspects permission before they do that?

As to the weak taking up arms - this is precisely the reason why we have such backward looking gun laws here. Getting a gun permit has never been hard for the well connected and never will be... self-entitled thugs like Manu Sharma will continue to pack guns and terrorise normal citizens... while the masses will continue to remain unarmed and powerless to shoot back to defend themselves!

Cheers!
Abhijeet
Hi Abhijeet,
I was really wondering what the heck a "narco-analysis" is since it all over the papers these days regarding the Anushri murder case.
I just have a hard time believing that the cops can get away with this type of abuse of human rights! How can the Indian public condone this type of abuse.
It is really unfortunate that police powers are so badly abused and innocent citizens victimized. Police torture, abuse, murders (encounters) are totally accepted by our public as part of normal behavior instead of treated as unacceptable.
Someone famous once said that if you really want to know how cultured a society is, don't look at how they treat their citizens, but look at how they treat their prisoners.

Regards,

Gaurav

By the way thanks for the links on gun ownership. This is a great thread. I plan to get a good air gun first and then a real gun if I get the license.
RedMM340 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 09:26   #142
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

India is the murder capital of the world
  1. India (32,719) 17.01% of world population
  2. Russia (28,904), 2.13%
  3. Colombia (26,539), 0.66%
  4. South Africa (21,995), 0.72%
  5. Mexico (13,829), 1.6%
  6. United States (12,658) 4.56%
With guns, it will surely gain an unassailable lead.
diabloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 09:35   #143
Senior - BHPian
 
vivekiny2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: cincinnati, jabalpur,chennai
Posts: 1,241
Thanked: 163 Times
Default

doesn't that mean murders per capita is very less in india?
vivekiny2k is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 11:53   #144
Senior - BHPian
 
maddy42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Coorg
Posts: 1,817
Thanked: 426 Times
Infractions: 0/1 (5)
Default

@abhijeet Great article of yours. Will help people who dont have much info on guns.

By the way someone disagreed with me on how to hold a gun when loaded.
The reason i said to hold it facing the ground is because you cannot cause much damage and ths is the way its done usually. I was taught the same way by dad and well Put on the trigger lock and make it face the ground. Aim at your target and then open the trigger lock and then fire. Well if you got any other method then please let me know. I consider pointing the gun in the air as dangerous as any bullet in the air can be dangerous
maddy42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 12:38   #145
Senior - BHPian
 
straight6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,333
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

I checked and my dad has the all India license.
straight6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26th June 2008, 22:08   #146
Team-BHP Support
 
aah78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC / BOM
Posts: 3,567
Thanked: 1,541 Times
Thumbs down the cowboys get to keep theirs

US court overturns DC handgun ban

The debate banning handguns in Washington D.C. has been going on for a while now. While New York (City) and Chicago have banned handguns in homes, residents of San Fransisco & Washington D.C. still refuse to let go of their little shooters.

The less said about Texas, the better ...


Second Ammendment to the U.S. Constitution, as passed, and as distributed (sourced from wikipedia)
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
aah78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2008, 02:07   #147
Newbie
 
abhijeet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: New Delhi, Indi
Posts: 13
Thanked: Once
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aah78 View Post
The less said about Texas, the better...
I take it you mean more guns in the hands of law abiding folk is a bad thing? So according to you only criminals should have access to guns - is that it?! Real smart , eh?
abhijeet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2008, 05:47   #148
Team-BHP Support
 
aah78's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NYC / BOM
Posts: 3,567
Thanked: 1,541 Times
Default Just posted the news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijeet View Post
I take it you mean more guns in the hands of law abiding folk is a bad thing? So according to you only criminals should have access to guns - is that it?! Real smart , eh?
Let me explain.

I have absolutely no issues with guns being used for sporting events, but I'm not a big fan of letting only a select few legally keep guns in their households - especially a person who has no idea on how to use it.

Before we begin talking about criminals, here's my view about what happens in law abiding families:
The issue is that generally a person buying a gun for self-defence isn't trained on how to use / keep (clean, store) it.
Families that have had guns for a few generations have fewer accidents than a new owner.
There are stories to support and disprove both my points and it's a never-ending debate.

No, criminals shouldn't have guns - but that statement sounds weird now, doesn't it .
It's a known fact that guns are freely available on the streets - all around the world. The criminals you refer to here usually possess these guns which, in most countries, aren't legally sold as self defense weapons.

So to answer your question specifically, if a law abiding person genuinely needs a gun for self defense, then I feel he /she should be given proper training on how to use and live with the weapon.

Most people mentioned in the news article I posted have no specific need for a weapon - they just want one.

Going a little off-topic:
Texans are very possesive about their constitutional right to hold guns - thats why I mentioned them specifically. Texas was a Confederate State during the American Civil War, and many of the descendants (who still exist in the wild west) aren't satisfied with the deal they got - it's the largest state in the U.S. (second only to Alaska, which doesn't count for much) - and they feel they've been sidelined by the Yanks.
aah78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2008, 10:24   #149
BHPian
 
srijit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Trivandrum
Posts: 594
Thanked: 6 Times
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by abhijeet View Post
I take it you mean more guns in the hands of law abiding folk is a bad thing? So according to you only criminals should have access to guns - is that it?! Real smart , eh?
I feel that any person who applies for a gun, should undergo special training in using that gun and also in some martial art, which he would use, hopefully, instead of a gun.
He should also be pulled up first for Army Duty (cos he is already partially trained).

Criminals having guns is a problem, I agree. But I fear gun-toting citizens more.

What happens when a criminal opens fire in a mall, and a citizen responds?
How will the other citizens (who carry guns) know who is the good guy and who the bad guy is?
Do they all start shooting each other?

It's not right to compare our situation to America. US has had a gun-slinging history and is a war-monger. Just take a look at the un-necessary wars they have gotten involved in. Their main aim is to sell more guns and ammunition. For that they will arm the entire US, and they look to be succeeding.

Last edited by srijit : 27th June 2008 at 10:26.
srijit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th June 2008, 14:26   #150
Senior - BHPian
 
straight6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Bombay
Posts: 2,333
Thanked: 109 Times
Default

So Texas is like the Bihar of the US. I have actually been told by an American girl when she came here, that as a tourist, you don't want to be going to places like Alabama & Texas(other than the metros). People there are not very welcoming.
straight6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Has chevrolet india jumped the gun a bit too soon? rahul_intlad The Indian Car Scene 10 20th April 2007 18:07
Have You Seen A Machine Gun Factory ? Mugen_Power Shifting gears 23 1st December 2006 12:54
potato gun byramshroff Shifting gears 11 7th August 2005 10:59
Introducing myself - Top Gun Top Gun Introduce yourself 8 10th April 2005 09:38


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 02:08.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks