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Old 16th November 2007, 18:44   #16
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@ported_head, I've always wondered about this very phenomenon -- of nearly all the engineers, regardless of stream, ultimately turning to the IT industry for work.

I guess we can't blame the fact that they are going for better-paid jobs. And I'm sure everything has a limit and soon 2 things are bound to happen:
(a) the pay scales in other industries will go up due to lack of "recruitable" people.
(b) The IT industry will not be able to sustain the levels of pay being given now, and/or the mad-recruitment spree is bound to come to an end.

All imbalances will ultimately be corrected by natural market forces.

BTW I'm not an IT engineer or any kind of engineer. (Though I do at times wish I'd gone for an IT education before my business education -- not because of the money, but because all my hobbies and interests always have something "ITish" about them. I've learnt quite early that money comes and goes. It's how you well you live/approach each day that counts).
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Old 16th November 2007, 19:14   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrashok View Post

All imbalances will ultimately be corrected by natural market forces.
True.

I am an engineer in IT and I opted out of the IT sector after my MBA. I'm associated with a company that is nowhere near IT.

I met someone yesterday who left Microsoft a year ago and joined our company. Things are changing, but I agree that there is greater inflow into the IT.

Last edited by rocksterraghu : 16th November 2007 at 19:18.
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Old 16th November 2007, 19:25   #18
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Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
I second that. My classmates, who pursued civil or other engineering disciplines as a profession are pretty well off today, with engineering firms like Samsung, LG, Fluor Daniels, Bectel, Emerson etc.

IT growth will flatten out. Just a matter of time.
i truly support shuvc. core branches wont have death is what i feel. its just matter of time.
ot:- ported which college u in?? SPCE???
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Old 16th November 2007, 20:08   #19
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Market forces is definitely the main idea here. But I would go a step further and analyse the education in our colleges today. Only the IITs and RECs to an extent have the kind of education that can instil interest amongst students, for some particular field of engineering.

It would be interesting if someone could pull out stats on what are the numbers of students from these premier colleges that change over to IT. Most other colleges in our country really don't come too close to the education standards of the IITs (which in itself is not the same as what it used to be back in the 70s/80s). The facilities are just simply not there and exposure to industry is not the emphasis.

But not to worry, manufacturing and technology are really here to stay. Future would involve expertise in multiple disciplines of technology. It would be guys with technical depth who would have the last laugh.

Last edited by MC Mayank : 16th November 2007 at 20:10.
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Old 16th November 2007, 20:13   #20
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Colleges don't produce engineers, they produce raw material for making engineers.

The day I graduated, I was very disappointed. I always thought Engineers knew lot more than I did, they are supposed to create anything out anything else. I guess I was thinking about that railroad Engineer (Cyrus Smith) from Mysterious Island (Jules Verne).

It took me couple of years of hard experience to start feeling like a real Engineer. I see that even now among the trainees in my company, it takes at least 1-2 years before start making sound design decisions. Until that point lots of guidance and hand-holding is necessary.

Most IT companies in India are working in generic fields that do not need any background in computer science. Anybody who can think like an engineer can be molded into an application software engineer. This is how IT companies are managing to turn Civil/Mech engineers into IT engineers. You don't need a guy who can design a maximization/minimization algorithm to design a payroll or banking application. In fact he will be bored out of his mind and quit.

I run a software company, but I have to agree with Mr.Naik for most part. The high salaries in IT has made recruiting very difficult, for both IT and non-IT companies. The IT companies find it very difficult to filter the right people among the huge candidate pool, while the non-IT companies find no people since they are all looking for IT jobs. It is creating a huge imbalance, IT people want to buy nice houses, cars and other high quality services using their big income. But they end up complaining about low quality of flats, cars and other services. But can you really complain? The cream of the Civil, Mech and other professional graduates are all working IT companies. Until the income levels in various professions are similar, this imbalance is going to continue.

However, I didn't understand his statement that IT doesn't create jobs. Hello, who is taking away all the engineers? Actually in my company, support staff outnumber the engineers, and their jobs were created to support the engineers.
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Old 16th November 2007, 21:25   #21
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Just one thought. What would've been the fate of all these engineers if IT was not there? I doubt whether all the companies in other sesctors put together can absorb the number of engineers getting out every year.

Talking about me if IT was not there might be I would've been a taxi driver

Deepu
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Old 16th November 2007, 22:18   #22
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I'm not in IT, in fact nowhere close am I. A lawyer by profession, I do get to interact with folk across the board. Being based in Bangalore means you are more likely to have a higer IT/ITES client base, but I am glad to say that is changing, slowly but surely. I am also not sure how this qualifies me to comment on this thread but I would like to offer my 2 cents.

I have friends who are engineers - mech, chemical and civil. Yet a majority of them are today in IT merely for the pay. They complain, curse and rant about their dissatisfaction with the job, their desire to practice what they studied so hard for and yet make no move to quit their mundane existence and find a job they are happy with. Samurai is spot on when he refers to their desire for material comforts, luxury or not, and their fear that a similar material standard of living cannot be achieved in other fields. Now being a corporate lawyer, I can't empathize but I certainly can see where they are coming from. Whether it is true or not in the long term I don't know. And how many of us have the courage to discard the security blanket of a fixed monthly income? I have always questioned the excessive importance accorded to the IT services industry and whether it is justified. At the risk of offending a lot of people in IT, I personally feel that IT services do not a nation build.

What is the real development taking place in those companies? Where is the creation of valuable IP? Where are the products? Where is the creativity and innovative thinking and what happens to those who have that spark and want to nurture it? Is money the only driving force? Isn't that short term thinking for short term gain, ignoring what the passion one had as a student, as a youth? Importantly, how do the companies view their actions and what message are they conveying?

Cheers!
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Old 16th November 2007, 22:34   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
IT growth will flatten out. Just a matter of time.
when ... ?
after all the banking/Financial ,healthcare,manufacturing logistics companies etc etc etc decide to stop using softwares/automation or any IT all ?
Business changes quickly, which forces ur systems to keep up, data needs to be exchanged with diff age and diff type of systems etc , newer technology comes like every 6 months .. people want to port or interface their existing systems to the new flashy stuff,clients want stuff on hybrid handheld devices, cars,watches ..not just computer desktops or ATM's ,sometimes maintenance of existing legacy systems is reqd when they cannot be thrown away.
the list goes on and on .. etc and this is just tip of the iceberg

Wonder when IT growth will flatten out ? maybe they will stop recruiting new kids .. or maybe they will stop paying experienced guys ?
just thinking ... coz its a very scary thought for many of us

If it stops I'll setup a garage or soemthing and take up my hobby fulltime
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Old 16th November 2007, 23:09   #24
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It's just PAY, PAY and PAY. Nothing else. Everybody wants to have a good life. Whoever pays the most gets the best. Passion does play a small role however.

Going a bit tangent but related, why do you think we have stupid cops controlling traffic? That's because we PAY them PEANUTS. When you pay PEANUTS, you get MONKIES. It's the same with other departments / sections.
Or is it that the traffic cops don't need intelligence and any stupid guy can become one?

-- Torqy
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Old 16th November 2007, 23:17   #25
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Hi ported_head,

I think you pointed out very much right.We are observing such senario.There is tremendous growth in IT sector but I any how couldnt digest a fresh BE from any discipline getting stright away recruited into IT sector.After all there are spending 4 or more valuable years understanding the core subject & its application in details and there after what they do is totally different.

In my view we must get at least a year or so of work experience in respective field there after switching job is beneficial.Our growth in IT must be well defined across entire industry sectors rather then service oriented.That trend is picking up.So we are in transition phase.Pace of transformation is rapid now.So we must have latest syllabus across universities in every discipline so that IT penetration can be effectively utilised benefiting growth of India.

Time will come when we will come out of this HIGH SALARY attraction and younger generation will start choosing their job based on their liking and understanding.
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Old 16th November 2007, 23:43   #26
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So, how is attrition rate in the IT industry? If a part of the people are only in it for the money, their productivity can't be very high, right? Does this not affect their business? Or do they have just have such a mega base of manpower, that they just lay some off and find others who can carry on from where they started?

When they select just people from other disciplines, what sort of work do they get to do? Forget the pay package. Is it the same sort of work that somebody from a IT/Comp discipline would get to do?

Surely if somebody does 4 years of IT Engg, it's bound to be worth more than somebody who does 4 subjects in 4 years. From what I know, these companies train for max 6 months. Is this good enough to bring them upto skill? They surely won't waste 4 years trying to teach a Mech guy software, right?
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Old 16th November 2007, 23:46   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kartikkumar View Post
I have friends who are engineers - mech, chemical and civil. Yet a majority of them are today in IT merely for the pay. They complain, curse and rant about their dissatisfaction with the job, their desire to practice what they studied so hard for and yet make no move to quit their mundane existence and find a job they are happy with.
99.5% percent of the people get into various branches in engineering based on the physics, chemistry & maths marks they had scored in the entrance test. A person might have scored highest in chemistry but based on his rank he might opt for mechanical. Likewise a person who has scored more in physics might have to settle for chemical, based on his rank. So his choice of branch is based on his rank.

Maybe the remaining 0.5% might go their favorite branch.

So they study the subject for 4 years, which they got into based on their rank. Later to satisfy their various needs, they get into IT and spend more than 4 years in the industry.

Why do they crib that they want to pursue the field studied for just 4 years and not enjoy the field where they have spent more than 4 years?

Last edited by msdivy : 16th November 2007 at 23:48.
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Old 17th November 2007, 00:22   #28
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Today it is a goldrush. A mad one at that. It is also the only industry that has a VERY HIGH level of TOLERANCE FOR THE LESS GIFTED (I meant in the top floor full of neurons) and still pays high.

The days when i joined the industry, it was sought after only by people who loved IT. Today everyone does it whether they liike the field or not.

Ultimately only people who do it for the love of the game play it well.

I agree with Samurai. IT recruitment is a NIGHTMARE. NIGHTMARE.
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Old 17th November 2007, 00:54   #29
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Originally Posted by Venkatesh.C View Post
Today it is a gold rush. A mad one at that. It is also the only industry that has a VERY HIGH level of TOLERANCE FOR THE LESS GIFTED.
I couldn't have put it better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venkatesh.C View Post
The days when i joined the industry, it was sought after only by people who loved IT. Today everyone does it whether they like the field or not.
When I got into Software, the pay and job opportunities were on par with Civil, but less than Mech or Electronics.

Then in 1992, TISL (now IBM) offered 8K per month for trainees, this was when most people started at 2K-3K. Then most (80%) of my colleagues were very competent and loved what they did for a living.

By 1993 most IT companies had started matching the salary to retain their staff. And most parents with kids in 12th grade were also watching the trend. Guess which was the most popular branch that year. Also, many colleges increased their intake that year in computer science, and many new colleges were started by offering only computer science. This only grew worse in the following years.

In 1996, I led my first project team, a bunch of bright fresh graduates, couldn't have asked more from my first team.

In 1997, I was asked to build a new team of 15 and that was my first recruiting nightmare. Yup, I was facing the output of the first gold rush graduates who joined up in 1993. Rest is history, IT recruitment became a very painful affair after that.
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Old 17th November 2007, 14:27   #30
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It's simple, money moves the world

In our country, having engineering degree means better jobs thus better living.

However, in most developed countries, only who are interested in the subject usually go to university. They continue with their passion and invent things.

With our economy catching up fast, India will also see similar situation soon. (well, may be not so soon....)
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