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Old 16th November 2007, 14:19   #1
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Default Where are them engineers?

I was watching the news yesterday, and a segment showed how L&T CMD sparked off a mega debate, that angered quite a few of the IT industry.

Though I do not wish to comment on what revenues the IT industry gets the country, or even the other industries for that matter. All industries have had a mega share in the growth of India, and I am not looking to argue that.

What seemed quite relevant to me, was that the IT industry was hogging engineers of various other disciplines as well. Now here's what, most engineering colleges have a Computer & IT Engg. discipline these days. Amongst others such as Civil, Mechanical, Production, Chemical, etc. In my college also, the number students who get placed straight into jobs after graduation are far higher in Comp, IT and Elex engg., than say in Mech or Production. Though my college is quite an exception when it comes to Civil Engg. since it has quite a reputation.

What is also a growing trend is, that few of my classmates inspite of having a mechanical background, joined a reputed IT and software company, one of the biggies. One classmate especially, has had a mega mechanical background, including Diploma in Mechnical Engg., BE in MEch Engg and only to join Infosys. And this the trend, I believe, that the CMD of L&T talks about. And there are many such cases across all colleges. A friend of my father, takes a lot of pride in the fact, that his son a B.E. Mech Engg is working with TCS. And of course, very proud he should be.

I do understand that, in our country, even though higher education is quite cheap when compared to foreign countries, requires people to often borrow money to have their children complete their education. In such a scenario, the most practical thing to do is to get a job ASAP, as it would help pay off debts and often support a family. For such students, thinking about what they really want to do, takes the back seat for a while. Not to take anything away from them of course.

But, does such a general approach really work so well for the software and IT based industries? Is a couple of months of training enough to undo all the years of training the graduate has received in a completely different discipline of education. I believe this is more relevant to the services and outsources based industry. Does the IT and software industry have such a mega shortage of manpower, that the related graduate supply is not enough?

Are the pastures really that green, for graduates of an industrial discipline to so easily walk over to the other side? Is the artificially ventilated work environment, really worth skipping over to an entirely different field? Are these industries who complain of shortage of manpower, not doing enough to attract them?

I also know of small time IT companies, who will not hire an engineer unless they have a passion for the subject, even if it is a Comp or IT engg.

I know there are a lot of people here from the IT industry, so I'm hoping they would be able to shed more light.
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Old 16th November 2007, 14:26   #2
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Afterthought: Is it a problem with the higher education? Is this why I'm studying subjects such as C and C++ and Data Structures and GUIDBMS, when I see no real use for them in my discipline. Is MU looking to make me a Jack of All and Master of None? So that I may secure a job in some field or the other? Is this the shift that has always been?
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Old 16th November 2007, 14:28   #3
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ported_head,

The reasons as I see:

(i) Pay is the first thing which attracts other branch students.
(ii) Getting a chance to go onsite (abroad) is the next incentive.
(iii) Relatively easier to pick up stuff in IT so when there is an opportunity why would someone wanna miss out on it?
(iv) Unless someone really likes a particular branch, they would always look into getting into IT.
(v) In most IT companies, it is T & M, so all they care about is head count and not what discipline you come from or are you suitable to do IT job. So, finally thats how they mint money. The real good work is not outsourced to India yet and a very few (about 5%) get a chance to work on some amazing stuff that you can call interesting!
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Old 16th November 2007, 14:31   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
Afterthought: Is it a problem with the higher education? Is this why I'm studying subjects such as C and C++ and Data Structures and GUIDBMS, when I see no real use for them in my discipline. Is MU looking to make me a Jack of All and Master of None? So that I may secure a job in some field or the other? Is this the shift that has always been?
ported_head,

I feel the education system tries to only "introduce" you to all the fields in IT. That's how these courses are, and eventually you pick what you like and continue pursuing your interest in it. In my case, I was good at C and Unix in college. I wanted to pursue my career in it, but I got a chance to get into DBMS and turned out that I was even better at it. So now, I am into DBMS.
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Old 16th November 2007, 14:37   #5
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1. Whoever pays more, get the men.
Most people are passionate where the money is. Most people sacrifice personal time, family life to earn that extra buck. After sometime, making money gives them the kick that other things takes a backseat. In such situation, its of no surprise that people flock where money is.

2. Get rich soon
When their counterparts in IT industry zoom around the town in fancy cars, why not engineers from other fields make use of the opportunity, get into IT & drive fancy cars?

3. Quarter on quarter
IT biggies are piling up profits quarter on quarter. That means engineers hired by them are earning them money. So people from other streams can work in IT field.
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Old 16th November 2007, 15:35   #6
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A M Naik's interview DNA - Money - ‘This life is reserved for L&T’ - Daily News & Analysis

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Originally Posted by ported_head View Post
I was watching the news yesterday, and a segment showed how L&T CMD sparked off a mega debate, that angered quite a few of the IT industry.
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Old 16th November 2007, 15:43   #7
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what a stereotypical ignorant view of the IT Services industry. Its a bit like a slave owner after emancipation cribbing about the death of the cotton industry now that all the slaves have been freed….

No doubt the Government can start to cut back the tax holiday for IT Services , but that they are somehow obligated to start driving people into the “brick and mortar” industries is ridiculous.

The whole “government subsidized education” is a fallacious argument because even the food we eat is mostly government subsidized in one way or the other, let alone the petrol we use, the electricity we burn… If “government subsidized education” is a reason not to take up a job abroad, then we should all be the indentured servants of the Government because it provides food, shelter and water.

IT Services companies cannot afford to focus on India alone because the market is too small, and opportunity for profit far less. L&T itself touts the re-building of the bridge over the River Kwai in Burma, and demands that IT should be India specific?
Quote:
L&T is not not building them for themselves, but it is just a contractor which does the construction when the Government or any other private party asks it do so.
Quote:
Absolute crap…

1. TCS does a lot of work for the Govt. NSE/NSDL/Railways and a host of other Government/quasi-govt projects are handled by companies like TCS.

2. What is the profit margin of L&T Infotech? L&T Infotech is not a listed company and so has no need to publish its results… but once this company is listed, Mr. Naik will be eating his own words.

3. Many service companies, which are not in IT, for e.g Bharti, or Reliance (retail, Capital) pay much more than IT companies. And don’t even start talk about Financial services companies… So is Mr. Naik going to crib if MBA’s prefer Financial services to Manufacturing?
Few comments from here

Last edited by diabloo : 16th November 2007 at 15:50.
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Old 16th November 2007, 15:45   #8
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Don't worry.. every dog has its day. There will be a time in the not too distant future when IT will be just another blue collar job and engineers will run away when IT co's come for campus selection.

PS: I am in IT and a B.E in Comp Engg to boot .. so don't flame me
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Old 16th November 2007, 15:54   #9
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If one asks a question why India a country with brightest minds and largest talent pool is not innovating as compared to many other tiny (or even compared to China) nations, a very common answer will be what L&T CMD expressed.
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Old 16th November 2007, 16:16   #10
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Problem 1:
Please chose streams according to rank not liking(barring few exceptions). Go to any engineering college, and ECE and Compsci will be hogged by top rank holders from the entrance exam.
Problem 2:
Job is decided with Pay. Forget different streams. So many electronic engineers study VLSI and then sell shampoo. Even if today I get twice as much to sell lux underwear and bunyan, I would be seriously tempted to jump ship
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Old 16th November 2007, 16:37   #11
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its also to do with a certain level of attraction towards the engineers (no matter what stream) by IT companies. If you look at some recruitment newspaper and one of the top Indian company advertisements(they include profile of ppl working with them), you will see engineers from mechanical, civil, chemical streams doing IT project work.

There is a public mindblock for engineers but Crux is money. If manufacturing/other industries provided such payscales, all engineers would be in manufacuring, why ??

Because it has to do with the Indian Social structure too, no social security, person has to build/buy everything himself (house/car), provide for his/her medical and retirement needs and what will provide that faster in life??....yes, you guessed it right, money.

And what can get you more money under current environments ??....yes you got it right this time too...IT industry.

Most of the time people spend their whole life struggling for the basics and by the time they get it, leave everything behind. Such is life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HellwratH View Post
ported_head,

The reasons as I see:

(i) Pay is the first thing which attracts other branch students.
(ii) Getting a chance to go onsite (abroad) is the next incentive.
(iii) Relatively easier to pick up stuff in IT so when there is an opportunity why would someone wanna miss out on it?
(iv) Unless someone really likes a particular branch, they would always look into getting into IT.
(v) In most IT companies, it is T & M, so all they care about is head count and not what discipline you come from or are you suitable to do IT job. So, finally thats how they mint money. The real good work is not outsourced to India yet and a very few (about 5%) get a chance to work on some amazing stuff that you can call interesting!
Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
1. Whoever pays more, get the men.
Most people are passionate where the money is. Most people sacrifice personal time, family life to earn that extra buck. After sometime, making money gives them the kick that other things takes a backseat. In such situation, its of no surprise that people flock where money is.

2. Get rich soon
When their counterparts in IT industry zoom around the town in fancy cars, why not engineers from other fields make use of the opportunity, get into IT & drive fancy cars?

3. Quarter on quarter
IT biggies are piling up profits quarter on quarter. That means engineers hired by them are earning them money. So people from other streams can work in IT field.
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Old 16th November 2007, 16:54   #12
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Ported

This could also have to do with the metro cities being primarily service economies; how much manufacturing do you see in the Mumbais, Delhis, Bangalore, Chennais etc. anyways?
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Old 16th November 2007, 17:25   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spadival View Post
Don't worry.. every dog has its day. There will be a time in the not too distant future when IT will be just another blue collar job and engineers will run away when IT co's come for campus selection.
I second that. My classmates, who pursued civil or other engineering disciplines as a profession are pretty well off today, with engineering firms like Samsung, LG, Fluor Daniels, Bectel, Emerson etc.

IT growth will flatten out. Just a matter of time.
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Old 16th November 2007, 17:33   #14
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I can really relate to this. Im in my final year of E&C engineering and have companies coming every week to our college.

Now 90% of these are IT companies and they hire anybody who has basic programming skills. They pay more than other companies and have a bigger name(which makes mom proud). Out of 60 students in my class around 45 have chosen IT companies and only 4 have gone for a electronics company.

All that we have studied in the last 4 years in ECE is a complete waste if we take an IT job still everyone goes for it. I plan on doing my higher studies so have not taken a job but if i had to i would definately join an IT company.
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Old 16th November 2007, 17:54   #15
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Mad rush for Money and looking at most obvious source. Insecure rest of the time

Just my personal thoughts, not in a debate mode right now, so please excuse.

Sad and yes other streams are really taking the hit!!
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