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Old 29th November 2007, 13:54   #16
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Tsk1979,

I did not personally attack you as such. I raised a question about why the post was deleted if I did not attack anyone in person (rev_hard). Just as he stated his view, I talked about mine.

Just as there is no need to defensive about criticism towards India, there is no need to be defensive about blunt response back to brash comments about India.
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Old 29th November 2007, 13:55   #17
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Originally Posted by rev_hard View Post
..a week long trip to the Nation's capital and all these rose-syrup
Somwhere ^^ this got ignored and I was made to sound as if I was on a India bashing spree.

To put things (and I only presume it will) in perspective, my brother who works for Timex just got his diwali bonus of 12 odd lacs. Almost half of it was swooshed by the ITax dept. For what? He goes to Greater Noida every day from G.K. With the brilliant traffic and road conditions, despite the fact that he uses the DND flyway, it takes him 1.25 hours one way everyday for a total commuting distance of not more than 12 kms.

On the other hand, I too pay 10.5 percent state tax on any thing I have to purchase. But even before I moved to Mercer Island from Everett, it took me all of 25 minutes to cover 40 odd miles.

I don't mind paying because I see the immediate and unwavering benefit of it. My bro is still in shock considering what he had to shell out and for what perceived improvement?

Last edited by rev_hard : 29th November 2007 at 13:57.
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Old 29th November 2007, 14:02   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135 View Post
Tsk1979,

I did not personally attack you as such. I raised a question about why the post was deleted if I did not attack anyone in person (rev_hard). Just as he stated his view, I talked about mine.

Just as there is no need to defensive about criticism towards India, there is no need to be defensive about blunt response back to brash comments about India.
Board rules are clear. You cannot pass any opinion about members. On everything else you are entitled to opinion.
As for comments deletion, all related comments and replies have been deleted to keep the thread clean.
Without deletion this thread will turn into a slugfest, and go nowhere.
No further discussion on this now
If you are dissatisfied, please take it VIA PM
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Old 29th November 2007, 14:08   #19
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No further discussion on this now
If you are dissatisfied, please take it VIA PM
Sure, I am leaving this thread anyway. I'll send you PM.
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Old 29th November 2007, 15:08   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rev_hard View Post
To put things (and I only presume it will) in perspective, my brother who works for Timex just got his diwali bonus of 12 odd lacs. Almost half of it was swooshed by the ITax dept. For what? He goes to Greater Noida every day from G.K. With the brilliant traffic and road conditions, despite the fact that he uses the DND flyway, it takes him 1.25 hours one way everyday for a total commuting distance of not more than 12 kms.
Just curious, because your numbers are not making sense.

First, the highest income tax you get to pay in India is 33%, how did your brother end up paying close to half, you should check this with him.

Secondly, for the salaried class, the income tax rates are very similar in India and USA. It is hard to pick one over the other, it depends on your itemised deductions. Prior to 1997, the income tax rate in India was very high.
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Old 29th November 2007, 18:07   #21
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Taxation is a very important issue to be fixed in India. The only people really paying taxes are the salaried middle class. The middle class alone cannot carry the tax burden of the country, when huge expenses like defence spending (126 new fighter jets, submaries, expense of a million strong army), infrastructure, education, and health look so large for the country.

The Indian tax code is in terrible shape. Why is there so much black money floating around? To keep it out of the hands of the taxman. People who want to pay in white cannot because the recipient won't take it all in white, so constantly money keeps flowing into the underground black economy as white money gets converted to black money when paid as cash for homes, cars, etc.

The Indian tax code needs to be fixed. But it cannot be fixed while the government, ministers, police are corrupt and the judicial system does not work.

Governmental and political corruption and judicial uselessness are grotesquely huge challenges for India that will not be easily solved because Indian politicians in general are corrupt, they are enabled by corrupt bureaucracy and police, and they rely on the ineffectiveness of the courts to escape the laws that do exist. Those in our country who have the power to make these changes are motivated to not make them.

The only hope is that as the economy grows and citizens and businesses gain power, they will gain enough influence that politicians who do the right thing are rewarded and they start to drive change.

How many people do we have in our parliament who have cases pending against them for corruption, rape, murder, conspiracy? Firstly, we don't even know the legitimacy of these cases because in India, bureaucrats and politicians use corruption laws as political and profit weapons. Secondly, in cases where the charges are legitmate, between intimidation of witnesses by police and political goons, corruption of judges, endless stay orders, the cases remain pending for years while gangsters and criminals continue to be lawmakers in our great democracy.

This is not a criticism of India. It is a criticism of the political and governmental problems India has that will need to be fixed before we can move on.

I was told by a police sub-inspector how he paid a huge amount of money to a senior police officer to be put at a certain posting, and how he had 6 months to recover that, plus profit, before he would be moved to make place for the next person paying money for the opportunity. This way the senior officers convert postings into money for themselves, which they pass upwards, and junior officers use their police vardi as an opportunity for racketeering.

I know another case of a certain state where the chief minister would make no police or IAS or state AS appointments without payment of huge sums. In one case, a man was asked to pay Rs 2 crore for his son to be promoted to position that he was overdue for. The man paid over a crore, but could not come up with the rest in time, so the chief minister's goons just kept his money.

Another case, the senior most IAS officer of a certain state used the state housing authority to allocate prime state owned land to him and other officers at throw away prices, and had the state pay for the construction of all the houses, and while he was doing this, he had corruption charges brought in court against another officer who had been sidelined for obstructing official corruption in the state.

We have problems in our country that need fixing really badly.
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Old 29th November 2007, 19:39   #22
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all the problems can be solved when india follows communalism. And there will be very less corruption.

Democracy is full of crap. There is always a "run away door" in each field in india.

for example : Sanjay dutt released for wat reason?

You can get fake marksheets, Criminals are leaders in some areas.

Well the best option is that there should be a academic criteria for leaders. Not a 4th 5th pass can become a leader. What say guys. If the leader itself is dumb how come its followers be educated.
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Old 29th November 2007, 19:45   #23
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Any reasons why these can't happen in a Communist country? What has West Bengal achieved in comparison to other states during these years?

You have wrong information about Communism.

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Originally Posted by bmdesai1987 View Post
all the problems can be solved when india follows communalism. And there will be very less corruption.

Democracy is full of crap. There is always a "run away door" in each field in india.

for example : Sanjay dutt released for wat reason?

You can get fake marksheets, Criminals are leaders in some areas.

Well the best option is that there should be a academic criteria for leaders. Not a 4th 5th pass can become a leader. What say guys. If the leader itself is dumb how come its followers be educated.
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Old 29th November 2007, 19:58   #24
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Originally Posted by bmdesai1987 View Post
all the problems can be solved when india follows communalism. And there will be very less corruption.
Are you joking? The corruption in Russia and China are stuff of legends. Haven't you heard the saying "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely". It was communism that allowed both Stalin and Mao to get away with killing more people (their own citizens) than Hitler.

61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State

Source: DEATH BY GOVERNMENT: GENOCIDE AND MASS MURDER
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Old 29th November 2007, 20:47   #25
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Originally Posted by bmdesai1987 View Post
all the problems can be solved when india follows communalism
Perhaps you should apply for immigration to China
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Old 29th November 2007, 22:21   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbir View Post
Taxation is a very important issue to be fixed in India. The only people really paying taxes are the salaried middle class. The middle class alone cannot carry the tax burden of the country, when huge expenses like defence spending (126 new fighter jets, submaries, expense of a million strong army), infrastructure, education, and health look so large for the country.
................................

We have problems in our country that need fixing really badly.
Wow man I am in awe of your posts
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all the problems can be solved when india follows communalism.
India follows communalism already. Every year we have atleast 1 communal riot incident. So that way we can say we are the leading communalism following country in the world
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Old 30th November 2007, 00:13   #27
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Old nonsense - same cup being half full or half empty.

as long as yours is full of OMR or KF, just enjoyyy!
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Old 30th November 2007, 02:17   #28
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Why do people get defensive when somebody criticizes India?
I guess it is because there are two types of criticism - constructive and destructive. Most of the criticism against India sounds like a loser ranting. The 'India is going to be a Superpower' is also similar BS.
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Old 30th November 2007, 15:45   #29
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Man, Timex gives a diwali bonus of 12 lacs? I'm in the wrong industry, man that's like someone giving me a Civic, a Baume&Mercier, a bottle of Moet, 2 pairs of Doc Martens and a Zegna suit for Diwali.

Oh wait, people are having serious discussions here. I should go away.
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Old 30th November 2007, 19:04   #30
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With Mr. MOD (Tsk1979) done with serious cleanup of this thread, I am taking the liberty to join back this thread.

Quote:
Taxation is a very important issue to be fixed in India. The only people really paying taxes are the salaried middle class.
Spot ON. It doesn't matter if you earn few hundred thousands through agriculture, you don't need to pay tax. You don't have to pay tax, if you happen to own a business with a clever CA to "adjust" the balance sheet. Most retailers don't have concept of receipt, which means no accountability and no (or small fixed sum) tax. And, I am yet to come across a doctor, who would pay me receipt for consultancy or checkup (barring hospitals/polyclinics).

Quote:
The Indian tax code needs to be fixed. But it cannot be fixed while the government, ministers, police are corrupt and the judicial system does not work.
And you think, you are not corrupt? Who offers Rs.50 to the traffic police for jumping a signal, or for driving in no-entry? (You doesn't mean literal YOU).
Quote:
How many people do we have in our parliament who have cases pending against them for corruption, rape, murder, conspiracy?
And who elected them? Other politicians? or people like you and me? Or wait...do we even cast our vote? I was ridiculed by friends, when I spent few hours to find local voting booth to cast my vote. We are probably getting what we deserve as society.
Quote:
We have problems in our country that need fixing really badly.
Yes. And no one is going to fix them for you. You can either escape to US/Europe, or become part of system, or try in own little way to make a change.
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