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Old 28th November 2007, 18:55   #1
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Thumbs up India now 3rd among world in GDP

The 2007 figure is here (GDP based on Purchase Power Parity)

List of countries by GDP (PPP) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


India has overtaken Japan & Germany only after USA & China now!
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Old 28th November 2007, 19:05   #2
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Meanwhile, The Human Development Report for 2007-08 has been released by the UNDP. Here it is & see where India stand:

Well, rich are richer while poor are poorer.
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Old 28th November 2007, 20:23   #3
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While its good news, its a deceptive number.

Purchasing power parity is a bit of a dog eating its own tail kind of situation. People are poor and things are cheap. but because things are cheap, people can afford them, so if they can afford them, by PPP they are not so poor after all.

If I get a haircut in India, it costs $1. if I get a hair cut in the US, it costs $15. the same activity shows up in the US economy as being of 15 times higher value. So PPP correction is made to correct this. But then it disguises the fact that economic activity in India has low value by global standards, that so many Indians do so much work, but their output has low value and so they are poor.

GDP by PPP is a very valuable statistic but it is a very incomplete one. Two big statistics are Nominal GDP and Nominal GDP per capita.

Our country has no money for building western style infrastructure, no money to provide welfare for the needy, health care for children, quality education. We have so few quality universities and colleges that a typical high school student cannot hope for or expect a top quality education. Our economy is far far far far too small to give 1 billion high value employment, so people working hard earn mere rupees a day.

We are making great strides forward, and India has proved the strengh of its people, how they can accelerate ahead of the world when they are freed from the shackles of Nehruvian socialism, but we have very very very far to go yet.

Getting to # 3 by PPP GDP is not a big thing to celebrate. The biggest thing we need is for our economy to keep growing at this rate or faster, so as to create jobs that are of high value in the world economy so that more and more Indians can start getting integrated into the world economy instead of doing hard work that pays nothing.

For that we need huge advances in infrastucture, education, health care and we need major governmental and judicial reform. Government needs to shrunk down big time, its control reduced, the economy set free. The courts have to be fixed to be made effective, efficient, reliable, and fair. (they are nothing like that today). Corruption has to be dealt with, not just in government but also by private citizens (who don't respect encroachment laws, the property rights of other people, etc).

We have made a brilliant start, but we have very far to go yet. Let us celebrate the journey that we have started, but let us be aware that we have only just started and huge challenges face us that will not be easy to solve, nor can we assume they will be.
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Old 28th November 2007, 23:59   #4
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@Harbir

Dude u a economist or something! excellent post BTW!

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Old 29th November 2007, 11:05   #5
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No. 3 in GDP and we can't make a milimeter of pot-hole free roads? No. 3 in GDP but all our cities look like dumps? No. 3 in GDP but all our citizens behave like hooligans in public places? No. 3 in GDP but it takes 2 hours to travel 20 kms in the countries commercial capital. These types of news are all razzmatazz and doesn't show the reality of our country.
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Old 29th November 2007, 11:30   #6
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Numbers like GDP etc., are used to mislead the populace about actual development.
When you have citizens dying from lack of food(starvation), all this is pointless.
Many things which should have been done by the govt are being done by NGOs.
I know many people will come forward and say "we citizens should do this, do that etc., etc.," but when the CTC of our netas is a few crores every year, they better do some work.
Instead you have netas going around on helicopters to address rallies in other states, to garner votes. This is where the money is being spent
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Old 29th November 2007, 11:51   #7
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Ever since landing in the USofA, i have been asked umpteen times why I left India. I get lines such as - " India is booming", "India is the next superpower", "India is cultural potpourri" and all and sundry blah blahs.

At a recent meeting, when I was again bombarded with such q's from a CEO of engineering firm, I said - "India is cheap labor for US. US can't afford to bad mouth India and Indians anymore. You think life is or will be good there? Please take a week long trip to the Nation's capital and all these rose-syrup lined thoughts will be flushed down the drain! A city where a 12 km commute takes 1.5 hours is nothing but organized chaos. You don't count the days in an year when you didn't have electricity. You actually count the days you do!! "

The CEO ignored me throughout the evening thereon

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th November 2007 at 14:28. Reason: Toning down your post, just deleting the last line
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Old 29th November 2007, 12:17   #8
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Read an article today that "India's advantages are also its disadvantages". Population, skills, resources, diversity, languages, beliefs etc. Thats a correct obervation.
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Old 29th November 2007, 12:23   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rev_hard View Post
Ever since landing in the USofA, i have been asked umpteen times why I left India. I get lines such as - " India is booming", "India is the next superpower", "India is cultural potpourri" and all and sundry blah blahs.

....I am blessed to have been given this chance to escape the rut you call a better life!"

The CEO ignored me throughout the evening thereon
I have worked equally abroad and in India. I have made much more money while in India than in US. Boominig economy helps a lot if you know how to be a part of it. Else its just another "rut" as you call it. In US most desis just count/wait for their monthly/fortnightly beans, live life "pawn-size" and come back here and try to make up for it.

Last edited by appuchan : 29th November 2007 at 12:26.
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Old 29th November 2007, 12:24   #10
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he did put it a bit rashly, but, mate, you have to travel abroad, see that life by living there for a while doing your daily chores to appreciate it. even if you have traveled, short visits to different countries with 10 hours spent in boardrooms each day teaches you nothing.

the articles on rediff.com saying india will be.... in 2010 or 2020 and those graphical presentation by Times on the 3rd page with mumbai looking like shanghai are for those who have enough time to sip a cup of coffee for an hour and read the paper. GDP presentations are bull****

my disclaimer: i'm still living my full life in mumbai, but i do travel and stay a lot on the other side of this country to appreciate life there.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th November 2007 at 13:22. Reason: Removed RX135 comment
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Old 29th November 2007, 12:43   #11
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Why do people get defensive when somebody criticizes India?
The first step to change is accept the facts.
There are two issues from the citizens side when it comes to this country
1. Acceptance of unacceptable things.
For example for many people power cuts, lack of drinking water, state sponsored terrorism, Farmer suicides, starvation deaths are acceptable. Please be aware that until all these things go away, the country cant be developed. These things are not acceptable, and make living here a rut.
2. Attack the messenger.
When somebody (indian, or foreigner) puts across the truth harshly, people pounce. Why? Lets call a spade a spade. I have spent 3 hours struck on delhi outskirts because police haphazardly stopped trucks to collect hafta. Is this acceptable.
After paying 12% road tax in BLR the roads are riddled with potholes.
After paying hefty registration fees the corporation cannot provide water(let alone drinking water) to the apartment complex.

With things like this, GDP growth of 100% or 200% or 500% is all immaterial. Where is all the money going.
Surely there are lots of opportunities here, but they do not mask the rut we live in.

So instead of saying all this is okay, please resent this. This is not living
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Old 29th November 2007, 12:55   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rev_hard View Post
Ever since landing in the USofA, i have been asked umpteen times why I left India. I get lines such as - " India is booming", "India is the next superpower", "India is cultural potpourri" and all and sundry blah blahs.

At a recent meeting, when I was again bombarded with such q's from a CEO of engineering firm, I said - "India is cheap labor for US. US can't afford to bad mouth India and Indians anymore. You think life is or will be good there? Please take a week long trip to the Nation's capital and all these rose-syrup lined thoughts will be flushed down the drain! A city where a 12 km commute takes 1.5 hours is nothing but organized chaos. You don't count the days in an year when you didn't have electricity. You actually count the days you do!! "

The CEO ignored me throughout the evening thereon
Now coming to economics, Well yes GDP and PPP are misleading figures. In absolute sense they might not give away much, but that does not mean that they have no relevance. GDP gives you an idea for net consumption, production, Investments and Exports - Imports. So if GDP is increasing then at least one of the factor has to increase. Yes we are cheap labour so what cost of living too is on the lower side. Is it not a good thing? Yes we have good PPP because a hair cut here costs not even a dollar, but is it a bad thing ??. The only problem is that the contribution is not uniform, 20 percent population contributing to 80 percent of the GDP. This shows that we still have a lot of reserves man power and actual potential is yet to come . I know these numbers are released in order to get political mileage or maybe present a better picture to the ignorant, but don't be so sure about the data giving the darker side too. They too are manipulated in order to satisfy political pressures in the west.

I might be a bit too optimistic but I think third in GDP is at least a good sign if not a battle already won. What I have seen time and again is that as soon as something good is publicized we are ready to counter it with some sad or bleak stats as if to prove that we are wrong to believe that India is doing good.

I believe that most of you have been around for a lot more time than I have been, don't you believe that our lives have actually become better ??. I think we should have a poll on this too .

I know this is an auto forum so our parameters of progress are how much time it takes to commute a KM during rush hours, coming to this how many of you use pool cars ??. My uncle in US owns a couple of Mercs and BMW but still uses a pool car. Nyways the point is, yes we need to criticize what is wrong but a deserved applause should not be ignored either.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th November 2007 at 14:29. Reason: Original post edited, thread cleanup in progress
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Old 29th November 2007, 13:24   #13
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Well.. agreed that we are not as well off as the *West* but we are improving right? The pace isn't as slow as it is made out to be. Look at India in early 90's and now and there is a huge difference. Though we could do it faster, we are generally getting better off... for me this is reason enough to celebrate!
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Old 29th November 2007, 13:29   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbpscars View Post
he did put it a bit rashly, but, mate, you have to travel abroad, see that life by living there for a while doing your daily chores to appreciate it. even if you have traveled, short visits to different countries with 10 hours spent in boardrooms each day teaches you nothing.
I have traveled abroad in past, do travel still, have stayed in Europe and in US for extended periods (not just couple of weeks) and I can still stay there if I choose to, since I happen to be in IT industry. I have absolutely nothing against staying there, since I have couple of close relatives and closest friends staying there.

But, I hate "it's-all-trash-back-there" attitude. I am not against showing faults and I do know that standard of living in US/Europe is excellent. But, it doesn't mean that everything back here is trash or "rut".

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th November 2007 at 13:44. Reason: cleaning up the thread
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Old 29th November 2007, 13:43   #15
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Note from mod: Please stay on topic, and refrain from making personal comments on board members
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