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Old 19th January 2017, 09:24   #46
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

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Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
in short he will not let me dump the cats somewhere and he'll not help me find a home for them.
Instead, what they would do is, file a case against you, if you dump them somewhere or if you fail to feed one of the four kittens out of confusion. Stage a protest in front of your house and turn it into a huge TRP issue to get the media interested, and finally make you grow 4 kittens without a choice
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Old 19th January 2017, 10:12   #47
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

Guy,

Can someone help me by explaining how to pronoune 'Jallikattu'? I have heard many people say different things but I just want to know the correct pronunciation.
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Old 19th January 2017, 10:20   #48
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
UPDATE: The SC revoked it at the last minute on Tuesday since the TN government assured the SC that it will build in guidelines so that neither the animal or the participant are harmed/injured in the whole event.
They are riding on emotions, and ignoring the orders. I have not heard about an iota of movement in this direction. Yesterday, I was listening to the Petitioners Lawyer, Mr Abhishek Manu Singhvi on the box. What he said was that that the first five paragraphs of the judgement, which lists out a lot of atrocities on the Bulls. As it stands as long as the SCI judgement is not modified all Indian are obliged to follow them. I do agree with him that trying to bring an ordinance to stop the order may not be wise.

All arguments I see on the media have a single underlying there - Tamil Pride and Tradition. The same (Hindu pride & tradition) could have been said when Sati was outlawed!
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Old 19th January 2017, 10:23   #49
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Originally Posted by Saanil View Post
Guy,

Can someone help me by explaining how to pronoune 'Jallikattu'? I have heard many people say different things but I just want to know the correct pronunciation.
Pronunciation is like this.
Jal is like dull, li is like we, kat is like bat, tu is like you. You have stress the LL and TT letters. All the vowels are pronounced short.

Actually this should be sallikattu. Over period of time its got changed to Jallikattu.

Last edited by EPMV : 19th January 2017 at 10:24.
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Old 19th January 2017, 11:27   #50
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
They are riding on emotions, and ignoring the orders.
All arguments I see on the media have a single underlying there - Tamil Pride and Tradition. The same (Hindu pride & tradition) could have been said when Sati was outlawed!
I am surprised at the comments against Jallikattu. People come to this conclusion based on the one-sided story by the discredited PETA that it is a barbaric sport which causes grievous harm to the animal.

Have you ever seen an Alanganallur Bull in person ? A long time ago, a prized bull tied to a pole in a village near Madurai, escaped and charged. The sight of a charging bull is difficult to explain in words. This bull is a powerful massive animal that can gore, tear anyone in its path. It snorts and shakes its hugh shoulders before it charges. It really invokes the fear of God for anyone.

Luckily for me there was a narrow alley and I ducked inside.
The bull is no fool. It changed direction and reduced its speed and went away. I am saying about this incident to show that it takes quite a lot of courage to face this magnificent animal. ( I didn't have the courage to face this animal and I ducked).

Now consider these facts. Take a look at these bulls. They are reared at considerable cost to their owners who often treat them as their prized family members. The animal who can't be tamed in such Jallikattu are treated as Prized bull and it will be in great demand for mating. It is a kind of selective breeding. So in a way it helps to bring out the best, strong and aggressive native breed. Why would anyone in their right mind harm such a prized animal - a male family member ?

Now for the people who jump into this sport: It takes enormous courage to stand in the path of a charging bull. It is a Tamil sport where men display their courage in taming a charging bull. There may be causalities or injuries in the process. But the people themselves volunteered to tame the bull. Injuries are common in many aggressive sports.

Our cars kill/maim more number of people in our roads than the minuscule number of people injured in this sport.

There might have been some isolated incidents where the bulls may have been harmed. These isolated incidents need to be contained - by regulations and proper supervisions. Outright Banning is not a solution. In many Hollywood movies they show a legend saying that 'No animal was harmed in the production of this movie and the production was supervised by American Humane Association' or something to that effect.
Similarly we can have clear guidelines and supervision. Even in our roads, we have speed limits to tame our propensity for speed.

Finally I used the word 'discredited Peta' for a reason. The founder of Peta has openly accepted that they would use any means to achieve their goal - even using naked women. "...radical activists say the group has lost touch with its grassroots, is soft on the idea of animal rights, and that it should stop the media stunts, the pie-throwing, and the use of nudity" -Wikipedia.
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Old 19th January 2017, 11:39   #51
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

On people commenting on mental trauma to Bulls - I find dog shows even more traumatic to the dogs, even downright embarrassing to them, considering how (and what) they make of pure hunting breeds like afghan hounds. It should be banned too.

Same with horse racing, polo, even horse carts, bullock carts and bullock ploughs - all are traumatic to the animals.
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Old 19th January 2017, 12:01   #52
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

Even if we ignore the trauma to the animals, I dont think we can ignore the trauma to humans participating in it. It is a real blood sport and I dont think it has any place in modern India, even in th name of culture.

43 lives lost to jallikattu

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The argument that the breed will become extinct without Jallikattu is also flawed. If that is the case, then protest should be for more funding from the govt for the protection of the breed.

Few pics from this Link. You can judge if it is a blood sport or not.

Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President-_87427964_hanging.gif

Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President-_87427614_tail976.gif

Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President-_87427617_eyesright.gif

Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President-_87423204_crowd976.gif

Name:  _87427967_taming.gif
Views: 549
Size:  211.5 KB

Last edited by deerhunter : 19th January 2017 at 12:19.
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Old 19th January 2017, 12:17   #53
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

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Originally Posted by Nav-i-gator View Post
same with horse racing, polo, even horse carts, bullock carts and bullock ploughs - all are traumatic to the animals.
we should preserve our culture , this event has been a tamil indentity for centuries so well seeped in literature and immortalized in tamil films . Many people try to generalise without knowing the regional culture and traditions .
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Old 19th January 2017, 12:28   #54
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

Actually it seems killing the bulls, cutting them, cooking and eating them is not cruelty.
Only if we play with them, utilize them it is a cruelty.

People should try approaching SC with proposition that animals in arena will be afterwards used as a meal for spectators and players - SC may grant permission.

<< Sarcasm over >>
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Old 19th January 2017, 13:07   #55
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

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Originally Posted by sgiitk View Post
They are riding on emotions, and ignoring the orders. I have not heard about an iota of movement in this direction. Yesterday, I was listening to the Petitioners Lawyer, Mr Abhishek Manu Singhvi on the box. What he said was that that the first five paragraphs of the judgement, which lists out a lot of atrocities on the Bulls. As it stands as long as the SCI judgement is not modified all Indian are obliged to follow them. I do agree with him that trying to bring an ordinance to stop the order may not be wise.
Atrocities? Well, this is atrocities to Bulls. Thats the 2016 data of India being the second highest exporter of Beef. If PETA or any organization wants to save bulls from atrocities, let them fight first on making these number 'zero'!

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Source: http://beef2live.com/story-world-bee...tries-0-106903

That is a bull that is being proudly displayed by the lady as one among her family that participates in the Bull Run or Jallikattu. (read article link)

Name:  SoundaramCF10mar2015.jpg
Views: 480
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Source: http://www.chennaifirst.in/2015/03/1...-her-backyard/

The native breeds of the country needs to be protected, the students and the young men of the state have come forward to protect their culture and tradition in the most peaceful way possible.

People here, love peace and to say that the same peace loving people who own these bulls and care for them as one of their family member dish out atrocities to this lovely animal is just absurd.

This is a bull run, not a bull fight!

Quote:
All arguments I see on the media have a single underlying there - Tamil Pride and Tradition. The same (Hindu pride & tradition) could have been said when Sati was outlawed!
Its not a Hindu pride or tradition, its an ancient tradition of the Tamil community irrespective of their religion. That needs to be made clear.

Its also news to me to know that Sati was a Pride.
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Old 19th January 2017, 13:50   #56
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

I am not a fan of bans. It curtails freedom. It takes some higher authority's morality and force it on others.

I, for one, despise such sports. The world has progressed to such a level where cruelty in the name of fun is despised. There is nothing progressive in holding on to such cruel and moronic traditions.

If you say, you derive pleasure from playing/watching such a sport, I wonder what the meaning of pleasure is.

Still, no ban please.
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Old 19th January 2017, 13:52   #57
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

I am not supporter of complete banning of any of such traditions.
BUT no harming of animals should be allowed.

Same is the case of Caparison Elephant being paraded during the festivals of Kerala. Many people say ban elephants. YES they do harm the elephants to tame it and stand in hot sun. What I'd suggest is be more humane (I don't know how).

If we need to ban something, then its the Halal meat (in developed countries they stun the animal before slaughter). I'm not against meat eaters but against killing without stunning.

http://www.peta.org/blog/cruelty-beh...ual-slaughter/
http://kb.rspca.org.au/what-is-halal...ralia_116.html
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Old 19th January 2017, 13:57   #58
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

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Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
I am not a fan of bans. It curtails freedom. It takes some higher authority's morality and force it on others.

I, for one, despise such sports. The world has progressed to such a level where cruelty in the name of fun is despised. There is nothing progressive in holding on to such cruel and moronic traditions.

If you say, you derive pleasure from playing/watching such a sport, I wonder what the meaning of pleasure is.

Still, no ban please.
We drive pleasure in eating animals (non-veg) too. And showcasing dogs, horses in shows, racing them and playing polo too. And what about denying a calf its share of milk in full, that we do to produce, sell and consume milk?

There is a lot of atrocity imparted on a lot of animals by humans, jallikattu is nothing compared to those. I agree, nothing to be proud of in getting pleasure out of jallikattu, and I agree, I am also against bans.
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Old 19th January 2017, 14:03   #59
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

Quote:
Originally Posted by civic-sense View Post
I am not a fan of bans. It curtails freedom. It takes some higher authority's morality and force it on others.

I, for one, despise such sports. The world has progressed to such a level where cruelty in the name of fun is despised. There is nothing progressive in holding on to such cruel and moronic traditions.

If you say, you derive pleasure from playing/watching such a sport, I wonder what the meaning of pleasure is.

Still, no ban please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kozhissery View Post
I am not supporter of complete banning of any of such traditions.
BUT no harming of animals should be allowed.

Same is the case of Caparison Elephant being paraded during the festivals of Kerala. Many people say ban elephants. YES they do harm the elephants to tame it and stand in hot sun. What I'd suggest is be more humane (I don't know how).

If we need to ban something, then its the Halal meat (in developed countries they stun the animal before slaughter). I'm not against meat eaters but against killing without stunning.


There is always a humane way of doing things.

Parading elephants under hot sun on tarred surfaces should also stop. But I believe, if tried, similar protests may occur in Kerala too. Same with halal meat.

In the case of Jallikattu, what i find appalling is its violent nature. I am not sure it is a good sight to be seen by the children, even if its a great tradition.

Also, whenever someone opposes an evil, arguing that there are greater evils to be stopped first, is flawed. An evil is an evil, there is no hierarchy among them.

Another very interesting thing is, those same political parties who argued for banning beef is now supporting Jallikattu. Oppurtunistic hypocrisy.
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Old 19th January 2017, 14:23   #60
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Default re: Jallikattu in Tamil Nadu - SC verdict delayed, state ordinance presented to President

I respectfully disagree with people stating that since Jallikattu is a part of ones tradition, it should be allowed.

One word to all these people. SATI. An integral part of our tradition has been banned for good. Another example, child marriage, been practiced for long, but once again banned for good.

What I am trying to establish is that merely because a certain act is a part of our tradition and culture, it does not give anyone unrestricted authority to practice it. Neither does practicing a tradition for N number of years leagalise it.

I am a strong believer of a complete ban on all sports which cause harm to participants and the animal involved, be that Jallikattu, dog-fights, cock-fights or anyother activity for that matter.

Further, there are numerous reports of how the bulls are provoked before a fight to make them angry and more aggressive. As I decipher from the posts above, a bull which cannot be tamed by the participant is considered to be the winner and hence gets the award (monetary and otherwise). And this is the very logic which makes people provoke the bull for making it more aggressive and consequently win.

Now I will try to address the concerns raised by the people who are pro-Jallikattu:

1. It is a sport and like every sport, there is aggression and anger which makes the sport exciting and hence should be allowed:

Please note that these sports are played by humans. Humans who are in control of their action, humans who take part willingly, humans who are not punched, provoked and tortured before a fight. There have their own "free will" to decide to take part in such an activity. Does the bull have the same "free will"? Are you suggesting that given a choice, the bull would still want to go ahead, be pricked and poked, be dressed in red chilly powder and then fight? For what? What does the bull have to prove?

2. This is nothing more than a publicity stunt by PETA and all they want is their two minutes of fame. If they were this serious about animal rights, they would do something substantial about about killing of animals for food and showcasing animals in other events, these activities are allowed and hence Jallikattu should also be allowed:

To all the supporters of this school of thought, all I have to say is that two wrongs DO NOT make a right! I agree PETA should be even more actively involved in other activities for protection of animal rights, however, protection of animal rights is exactly what they are demanding by asking for a ban on Jallikattu!

I respect that everyone has a different point of view and is entitled to their opinion and I am willing to learn of substantial reasons for allowing Jallikattu. All I am saying is let's not get swayed by our tradition and culture onto paths which we cannot justify.

Best,
Enigmatic

Last edited by Enigmatic : 19th January 2017 at 14:39.
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