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Old 16th July 2016, 16:52   #916
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Default Re: All Income Tax Queries (refunds, disputes, rates etc...)

Planning to file my return within today. But I am stuck at one place which is TDS by banks and reported in 26AS. Here is the screenshot of the same from TRACES website:

All Income Tax Queries (refunds, disputes, rates etc...)-screen-shot-20160716-4.30.47-pm.png

Now, what I understand from previous posts is that I have to deduct Rs 10k from the total of both the amounts. Is my understanding correct?

In this case still it asks me to pay more tax

Also can anyone who has first hand experience of filing returns on the IT website, tell me where exactly do I put "Loss from House property"?
In form 16, my employer has put it under "Add: Any other Income reported by the employee" with negative figure. Should I be putting this in the field "Income from One House Property" with the same negative figure?

Can anyone please help in clarifying these points?
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Old 16th July 2016, 17:56   #917
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Default Re: All Income Tax Queries (refunds, disputes, rates etc...)

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Now, what I understand from previous posts is that I have to deduct Rs 10k from the total of both the amounts. Is my understanding correct?
Please determine if this is the interest accrued on your savings account balance. You can only claim upto Rs 10k under Sec 80TTA ACROSS all savings bank accounts in your name and not each.

If this is indeed interest income from your s/b a/c then you will have to pay tax on the amount exceeding Rs 10k per the slab that is applicable to your gross income level

Interest income from fixed deposits are not eligible for any deductions under 80TTA and are to be taxed per applicable slab
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Old 16th July 2016, 17:59   #918
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Now, what I understand from previous posts is that I have to deduct Rs 10k from the total of both the amounts. Is my understanding correct?
Not sure what you mean; when you are computing your tax liability you shouldn't look at how much the deductors have deducted. You look at that only when you want to check how much more tax you have to pay or if you have any refund coming your way.

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In form 16, my employer has put it under "Add: Any other Income reported by the employee" with negative figure. Should I be putting this in the field "Income from One House Property" with the same negative figure?
The actual return form requires you to fill in a lot of details so that the loss from house property (if any) can be accurately calculated. Briefly, the rule is this:

Income from house property = Rent received - interest paid on home loan - property tax paid to local authority.

If the property is self-occupied then the interest loss is capped at some number (I think 2L); if the property is not self-occupied and not rented out then you have to assume a rental value based on market rates.
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Old 16th July 2016, 22:29   #919
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Originally Posted by hothatchaway View Post
Please determine if this is the interest accrued on your savings account balance. You can only claim upto Rs 10k under Sec 80TTA ACROSS all savings bank accounts in your name and not each.

If this is indeed interest income from your s/b a/c then you will have to pay tax on the amount exceeding Rs 10k per the slab that is applicable to your gross income level

Interest income from fixed deposits are not eligible for any deductions under 80TTA and are to be taxed per applicable slab
Thanks, hothatchaway. The first one is SB A/c and the next one was created by the bank for FD.

So I am planning to put in the sum of 1 & 2 as "Income from other sources" and claim Rs 10k from 80TTA field. This will be fine, right?

I am filing online return and not by downloading the form. So there are these fields available.

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[snip]
The actual return form requires you to fill in a lot of details so that the loss from house property (if any) can be accurately calculated. Briefly, the rule is this:

Income from house property = Rent received - interest paid on home loan - property tax paid to local authority.

If the property is self-occupied then the interest loss is capped at some number (I think 2L); if the property is not self-occupied and not rented out then you have to assume a rental value based on market rates.
Thanks binand. There is no need to fill up such details in online return, as far as I have noticed. May be it is when you download the XML form. Hence, the question. I am planning to put in my salary as "Gross Salary" mentioned in my form 16 which already has the "Loss from House property" deducted. Hope that won't cross any rulebook.
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Old 16th July 2016, 23:55   #920
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Default Re: All Income Tax Queries (refunds, disputes, rates etc...)

I am done with my computations. Had some tax due and some interest as well, which I paid today online on Income Tax website (actually via HDFC netbanking)
So, I have the challan with me for the self assessment tax paid.

However, even after 12 hours, this is not showing up on Form 26AS.
I searched and found that it might take several days for this to be updated.

Is it recommended to wait for a few days and the file the return?
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Old 17th July 2016, 00:23   #921
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Default Re: All Income Tax Queries (refunds, disputes, rates etc...)

The hot topic of discussion thse days among seafarers. What are your views on this?

Please find the following link to the Latest Order on 01/06/2016 by the Income Tax Appellate Tribunal C Bench (International Taxation 3(1), Kolkata, Date of Hearing: 18/04/2016)
*NRI Seafarer's Salary Credits in to his NRE Accounts held in India for his services rendered outside India and in Foreign waters shall be TAXED in India*
ORDER DATED 01/06/2016:
http://wwwtaxassistindia.blogspot.in...k-judgement-f…
IN THE INCOME TAX APPELLATE TRIBUNAL "C" BENCH: KOLKATA
(Before Shri N. V. Vasudevan, JM & Shri M. Balaganesh, AM),
I.T.A No.70/Kol/2016,
Tapas Kr. Bandopadhyay (Appellant) Vs. Deputy Director of Income-tax, (PAN: ADZPB9416H) International Taxation 3(1) Date of Hearing: 18.04.2016
Date of Pronouncement: 01.06.2016
For the Appellant: Shri Manoj Kataruka, Advocate
For the Respondent: Shri A. H. Choudhury, JDIT
If you download this Order and read in full, you'll find that although this Seafarer is an NRI, he still needs to *pay tax* in India for his Salary Credited in Foreign Currency to his NRE Account in India.
In *International Taxations* with the new FATCA Compliance (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act) and DTAA (Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement) in place, one may either be a *Tax Resident* Indian or *Tax Non Resident* Indian
In view of the above Order, and this one being the latest one with respect to Seafarers and International Taxations, it might be inferred by the Income Tax AO that Seafarers do not pay tax elsewhere outside of India and as per the latest International Taxations, Tax Compliance and DTAA, Seafarers might be assumed as *Tax Resident* Indians since they do not pay tax elsewhere
"DTAA" was seen to be quoted in that Order dated 01/06/16 and this one being the *latest order*, ITO might infer this as the latest case law on this subject
The order seems to quote the DTAA, Double Taxation Avoidance Agreement and since the Seafarer doesn't pay tax elsewhere in any other country, he is assumed as a *Tax Resident* Indian and needs to be taxed here in India in the absence of any other tax liability elsewhere.
However if the same salary was *First Credited* to the Seafarer's Account held in a country outside of India, then keeping in mind the DTAA and this latest Order by this Bench, it might not be taxed by the Indian Tax Authorities as the Seafarer becomes liable to be taxed in that country of *First Credit*
The Order further states that the Seafarer's Salary Income is in International Waters and for the sake of convenience, he instructed the foreign employer to send the monies to his NRE account in India.
It was argued by the assessee that income was actually earned by the assessee outside India and assessee had only brought those amounts into India and hence not to be taxed in India.
However the Order specifically mentions that if this argument of the Assessee is to be accepted, then the Assessee goes scot free from not paying tax anywhere in the world on his salary income.
The Bench further observes that the provisions of section 5(2)(a) of the IT Act are probably enacted keeping in mind that Income has to suffer tax in some tax jurisdiction. It believes that such provisions would exist in tax legislation of all countries.
The bench holds that if the argument of the assessee is accepted, then it would make the provisions of section 5(2)(a) of the Act redundant. It is only elementary that a statutory provision is to be interpreted "ut res magis valeat quam pereat", i.e. to make it workable rather than redundant.
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Old 17th July 2016, 09:25   #922
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I am planning to put in my salary as "Gross Salary" mentioned in my form 16 which already has the "Loss from House property" deducted.
Gross Salary falls in "Income under the head of salaries". Loss from House Property falls is "Income from house property". These are different heads of income (our Indian system recognizes 5 heads of income - these two, plus Capital Gains, Agricultural Income and the catch-all Income from Other Sources). Point being, the rules, calculations, deductions are different for different heads of income so you shouldn't try to mix them up.

I don't know which this online form is, but it should have a location where you can enter Income from House Property. Just enter a negative number in that location.

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The hot topic of discussion thse days among seafarers. What are your views on this?
I think the tribunal took a good decision. Somebody was trying to escape without paying any income tax anywhere in the world, and the tribunal put a stop to it. Way to go. :-)
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Old 17th July 2016, 09:55   #923
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Default Re: All Income Tax Queries (refunds, disputes, rates etc...)

I filed my IT returns on June 28th 2016 and to my surprise the refund was processed on June 15th, I could see that my money got credited my savings account. This was the fastest ever refund for me, taking less than 3 weeks.

It makes me believe that system and process in IT department has been through a radical change, benefitting the tax payers.
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Old 17th July 2016, 10:16   #924
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However, even after 12 hours, this is not showing up on Form 26AS.
I searched and found that it might take several days for this to be updated.

Is it recommended to wait for a few days and the file the return?
Not necessarily. You can use the Challan info and include it in the return. By the time they look at it the job will be done.
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Old 17th July 2016, 10:21   #925
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I think the tribunal took a good decision. Somebody was trying to escape without paying any income tax anywhere in the world, and the tribunal put a stop to it. Way to go. :-)
I think it is ridiculous. I am not a seafarer anymore but for ages seafarers have been claiming NRI benefits and not with an intent to evade tax but genuinely believing that this is the way it is supposed to be. IT department even processes refund if they have been subject to TDS and subsequently ended up being 184 days outside India. Problem is that the rules are not clear in themselves.

BTW there have been more than one instance in past where IT departments effort to tax a seafarer who had completed the NRI requirement has been thwarted by court. Exact opposite to what has happened in this case.
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Old 17th July 2016, 10:26   #926
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The hot topic of discussion thse days among seafarers. What are your views on this?
I am unable to find a copy of the judgement or even any news reporting of this case. This is surprising because entire judgments are usually published online and any such case with far reaching consequences would have been widely reported.

It is unclear what the tax status of the appellant was and whether he had non-resident status for that financial year. I also fail to see what FATCA has to do with this as that data is held by the United States and only applies to US tax citizens.

In any case without the full judgement, we would all be shooting in the dark.

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I think the tribunal took a good decision. Somebody was trying to escape without paying any income tax anywhere in the world, and the tribunal put a stop to it. Way to go. :-)
Not so fast... Many countries such as the Gulf states do not have income tax, others such as Singapore do not tax foreign remittances. The judgement, if true, has far reaching consequences. It would also be relatively easy for seafarers to claim residency/salary credit bank account of some other country such as UAE or Singapore. Are we going to tax all those who work in a country where there is no income tax?

Last edited by nowwhat? : 17th July 2016 at 10:56.
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Old 17th July 2016, 10:41   #927
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I don't see how they can discriminate between a seafarer and someone who works on 7-8 month contracts abroad a year. Either you change the rules for everyone or you don't. I am pretty sure no court could pass such a discriminatory ruling, if that's the case here.
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Old 17th July 2016, 11:11   #928
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for ages seafarers have been claiming NRI benefits and not with an intent to evade tax but genuinely believing that this is the way it is supposed to be.
Don't think "that's how it has been for ages, why change it now?" is a valid argument. If I read it correctly, NRI status is not relevant for the present discussion - since even for NRIs, income received in India is taxable in India. In this case, the court ruled that salary that these seafarers received directly in their NRE account as "income deemed to be received in India" thereby inviting Indian tax provisions. If they had received income in an account in another country and then just wired all that money out to their NRE account, then it wouldn't have been "income deemed to be received in India".

Otherwise I'm so totally mistaken and will refrain from commenting further.

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It would also be relatively easy for seafarers to claim residency/salary credit bank account of some other country such as UAE or Singapore.
Don't these countries have spend-N-days-to-claim-to-be-a-resident rule?
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Old 17th July 2016, 11:26   #929
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If I read it correctly, NRI status is not relevant for the present discussion
You got it wrong, this is the crux of the matter.

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Originally Posted by binand View Post
Otherwise I'm so totally mistaken and will refrain from commenting further.
I too don't want to comment on this further without reading the full judgement, otherwise we would just be feeding paranoia.

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Don't these countries have spend-N-days-to-claim-to-be-a-resident rule?
Other countries residency or permanent residency requirements don't apply as we are talking of Indian tax status (NRI/RI). Someone can even be on a tourist visa abroad to be an NRI. Any seafarer can open a bank account in Singapore where income from foreign sources are not taxed thus making it appear that the income was not credited directly to the NRE account. The original report posted by @pedrolourenco is a hodgepodge of disparate facts and once again without seeing the entire judgement, any discussion on it is a waste of time.

Last edited by nowwhat? : 17th July 2016 at 11:27.
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Old 17th July 2016, 12:02   #930
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. If I read it correctly, NRI status is not relevant for the present discussion - since even for NRIs, income received in India is taxable in India. In this case, the court ruled that salary that these seafarers received directly in their NRE account as "income deemed to be received in India" thereby inviting Indian tax provisions. If they had received income in an account in another country and then just wired all that money out to their NRE account, then it wouldn't have been "income deemed to be received in India".

Otherwise I'm so totally mistaken and will refrain from commenting further.
The IT laws talk about income being accrued in India, not received. A sea farers income is accrued outside India and hence foreign income.

There has been a previous judgment in this regard.
Will share if I find it here.


Almost all seafarers ask their companies to directly send allotment to the NRI account in India.
And by saying going on for ages, Idont mean just people not paying tax. It also means people filing for zero returns, giving all proof of foriegn as well as indian Income. It also includes IT department refunding the tax collected after completion of NRI period. I am speaking from experience.
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