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Old 9th February 2008, 07:19   #31
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Default real tricky its gonna be

With rumours of a big Mall or a big 5 star hotel that would replace the existing airport, there are some points that needs some pondering and addressing.

I have lived all my life in this city and have seen the airport's metamorphosis from zero to its current decent state interms of infrastructure and facilities after so many years.

1) They spent a lot of money trying to improve the roads. The inner ring road from koramangala, the flyover at the indranagar junction and some roads. I still remember the time it used to take to commute to the office the with all the congestion detours which was so stressful. Not to mention the hapless passengers trying to make it to the airport in time.

2) I have seen a lot of money spent recently on the airport aswell in recent years. Whats going to happen to that.what a waste its going to be.

3) There are tens and thousands of people ( cabbies, autowallas, airport staff etc) who are dependant on the airport interms of their livelihood and most of them who are based in and around the airport would be badly hit.

4) HAL was earning hundreds of crores of revenue due to its leasing its space for the bangalore airport and there definetely would be some kind of lobbying to retain the airport.

I know we have to eventually move out to the international airport with the same pain or more pain/stress that we have already
gone through to see the present airport in its current state.
I would like some sort of plan where the Bangalore airport is retained for domestic flights and not turn it into some mall or a hotel.
Chennai, hyderabad, cochin etc makes more sense to me interms of time taken to reach the destination from the present airport than the intnl airport. Cant believe all the time/fuel/energy wasted by lakhs of cummuters to make way for better roads for the present airport was only a short term solution to make way for some mall/hotel. The air traffic can be distributed 60:40 in intnl airport's favour initially and the percentage could be increased further in a couple of years when the roads and the rail connectivity to intnl airport sees some light.

RK Misra has done something most of us havent done and let us live it at that and allow him to do what he is doing. For the sort of work he has done so far with respect to the roads, i feel that his concerns are not to be taken lightly.He may turn out to be the one who would speed up the infrastructure needs once the international airports becomes operational.We need more people like him.

The next couple of months or so will make things clear as to where we stand.

Last edited by muni : 9th February 2008 at 07:25.
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Old 9th February 2008, 10:15   #32
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I find most people who are critical are not based in BLR, so I guess they don't realize what they are prescribing fully. Here are a few things to consider
* No new road to the airport till god knows when
* Widening of existing road will take atleast 1 year more (given the usual progress any such project makes in BLR)
* It will take 2+ hours from city center & BLR east, 3 hours or more from BLR south to reach the airport (and I am talking average times here)
* Taxi fare will range over Rs.2000 from many parts of the city to airport
(Imagine taking a low cost or short-haul flight)
* Most big cities in the world have more than 2 airports. Why does BIAL want to be the only airport in BLR ? Monopoly is very convenient, or ?
* Everyone is yet to see how "state-of-art" the airport is. The Ministry had several times rejected their designs and forced change in many parameters of design, facilities etc. That a private airport could not make a satisfactory design to meet even the "low" expectations of an airport in India, tells me that we need to have moderate expectations of this airport - this is no Changi guys, if you are expecting that, please don't use this airport !

So, in sum, for someone who uses HAL airport very often (suffered the torture of waiting forever in an overcrowded baggage claim after landing up early morning from an international flight), and, I am all for BIAL and more modern possibilities.
But I don't see why public campaign shouldn't force the govt. to pull up their socks on infrastructure (road, rail link to BIAL airport). On the other hand, I don't see BIAL as a "saint" saving all of us from HAL - its a business and like most businesses, it will be better if its not a monopoly.


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Old 9th February 2008, 10:23   #33
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1. This Survey does not ask you to enter any name / email address. So I doubt if anyone would acknowledge the authenticity of the results of this survey.

2. The Govt has signed a legal contract that no other airport would function within a radius of 100 km from the new International Airport for at least 5 yrs I think. (not sure about the finer details of this, but I know for sure such a contract was signed)
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Old 12th February 2008, 15:40   #34
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40 BMTC Volvo buses with frequency of 10-15 minutes each will ply to BIAL Devanahalli.

Deccan Herald - Airport buses to ply in March

Good move by BMTC!
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Old 12th February 2008, 15:55   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
40 BMTC Volvo buses with frequency of 10-15 minutes each will ply to BIAL Devanahalli.

Deccan Herald - Airport buses to ply in March

Good move by BMTC!
Yes its a good start and good move. But the traffic will increase from this and 20 Nos from through out the city will not be enough with 80~100 flights landing and taking off on daily basis. (at present). But once the airport comes in the no. of flights will increase and certainly the buses needs to be increased. Govt cannot expect the tranvellers to stand in jam packed bus for 2~3 hrs continuously.
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:21   #36
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i'm just so darned thrilled to see so many people on our forum arent just joining the 'disable BIAL' bandwagon!!

first of all, in my humblest opinion...this misra guy might end up as just another Bennet & Coleman creation cum stooge. woe betide us the day we allow our future leaders to be 'created' by sms votes and the backing of a media conglomerate with vested ineterests. where do you think that guy's allegiance is gonna lie for the rest of his life? (nothing against him personally, per se. if he really was the next great leader, he shud've done it on his own. not in a tv reality show. singing or dancing in a movie & leading a people are two different things. don't forget, a true leaders integrity must be unimpeachable)

how many of the people clamoring for the HAL to remain open have spared a thought for the company called BIAL? imagine, if you or your family members worked there or had a stake in that company, would you be feeling the same? they have been given a promise by the govt, ie. US, WE, OURSELVES! now, we want to go back on it? what is that companies fault?

does anyone remember when the airport was mooted? some of you were toddlers then!! then, it wasn't too far away ? the infrastructure was great then? why wait till now to suddenly air this concern?

this whole thing smacks of the same conspiracy as befell the NICE road. and unfortunately, we are being turned against a legitimate, honest company...BIAL.

i feel, if its the infrastructre thats in question...the travel time to the airport, then let us as citizens tackle that. lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater. the govt is TOTALLY responsible for this mess. when they have even refused to build the trumpet interchange, BIAl has taken it on itself to do so. the 'industry cheifs' are cowards. they shoulod take on the govt. but obviously they cannot. why? well....they cannot bribe for this and they don't wanna confront 'cause its the govt that allots them land (much in excess of what they need) for their campuses.

i do hope people would go a little more indepth before clicking on a few inane survey buttons. i hope they wouldn't just be swayed by the popular & 'flavor of the month' opinion in the media.
perhaps, this kind of thinking is why india remained backward for 50 independent years.

Last edited by raftaar : 12th February 2008 at 16:32.
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:45   #37
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@Steeroid and all guys who are out questioning the survey. Lets get to 1 point. Does catching a domestic flight help you.
Well cutting down costs here is the list.
Mumbai-Bangalore(BIAL)
Ticket cost-2000+500(tax for new airport)
Time taken for journey- 1.45hrs
Time taken to reach airport- 1.30hrs
Cost of journey to reach airport-80(bike) 350(car)
Waiting time in airport(assume just in time for Security check)-40 mins
Total time-3.55 hrs
Cost- 2580 or 2850

Mumbai-Bangalore(HAL)
Ticket cost-2000
Time taken for journey- 1.45hr
Time taken to reach airport- 45mins
Cost of journey to reach airport-30(bike) 150(car)
Waiting time in airport(assume just in time for Security check)-40 mins
Total time-3.10 hrs
Cost- 2030 or 2150

Now why would i actually want to spend more time and also money to travel domestic. Travelling to the airport and from it is a problem. We wont get ricks also
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:57   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
But I don't see why public campaign shouldn't force the govt. to pull up their socks on infrastructure (road, rail link to BIAL airport). On the other hand, I don't see BIAL as a "saint" saving all of us from HAL - its a business and like most businesses, it will be better if its not a monopoly.
BIAL is a business and like all businesses, it exists to make money as well. If the business proposition of new airport was based on exclusive airport contract and the government signed that contract, we must honor that. Not doing so will cause ill will for Bangalore.

The real solution is obviously to have trains and expressway etc however that looks like remote possibility for now considering the work for expressway has been given to NHAI only very recently. So, we all have to suffer because our govt screwed up, the govt we all voted to power.
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Old 12th February 2008, 17:12   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raftaar View Post
this misra guy might end up as just another Bennet & Coleman creation cum stooge.
I liked that... nothing personal against misra though.

I am all for moving to the new airport. Last time when got I out of luft, at baggage counter, the place was full of mosquitoes. There is no way this old makshift airport should be allowed operate.

Mr.misra should concentrate his leadership qualities in getting that that express way done as soon as possible... but then he knows thats an impossible task. So just like our political leaders, he too is trying to find a easy way out of this mess.
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Old 12th February 2008, 17:51   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
Now why would i actually want to spend more time and also money to travel domestic. Travelling to the airport and from it is a problem. We wont get ricks also
Take the bus - the airport buses some i fairly accessible places



Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
The real solution is obviously to have trains and expressway etc however that looks like remote possibility for now considering the work for expressway has been given to NHAI only very recently. So, we all have to suffer because our govt screwed up, the govt we all voted to power.
God bless President's rule. During the next election I wish that there is a tick box for "none of the above"

Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrishn View Post
I liked that... nothing personal against misra though.

Mr.misra should concentrate his leadership qualities in getting that that express way done as soon as possible... but then he knows thats an impossible task. So just like our political leaders, he too is trying to find a easy way out of this mess.
Well said Raftaar and Gkrish, RKM's appeal is only with the english speaking TOI lot and a few cell co's. The common man will not give a toss otherwise. Don't get me wrong, he could be effective but he needs to appeal to the entire population segment

As for HAL - it is a drag to come back to after each trip. I prefer the pain of waiting for the access means to be developed for BIAL. Besides, it is time airport road lightened up (what will they rename it after BIAL kicks in?)
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Old 12th February 2008, 19:04   #41
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If we dont want improvement then we should not crib about facilities. Rather why arent people talking about Air Safety in HAL ?? Has anybody done hir / her homework ??

We should understand that the HAL airfield has done its share of the work and thr is absolutely no room for expansion or better facilities. A lot of incidents have occured due to lack of space... like a Step Ladder blew due to a Jet Blast (a Aircraft was starting to Taxi from the Apron) and hit a Bus full of passengers and couple of them were hurt... Why did this happen... In a not so crowded Airport or a well designed airfield Ladder's wouldnt have been crossing the Taxi Way in the first place...

Also let us consider the current AirSide Facilities like ILS, Ability to handle multiple Large Aircraft's, ugrading the ATC Equipment etc..., Did u guys know that the Air Traffic Controllers at time's do not know where your aircraft is and what altitude cause they are using a age old Radar System... Coupled with shortage of Air Traffic Controllers (due to Pay Scale's compared to other countries and now private palyers)... Its a miracle that HAL has not seen any major incident (touch wood..).

What happens when HAL is doing some testing ?? The Runway has to be closed .... Its one of those days when me and you blame the airline.. When we dont realise that the runway might have been closed for some HAL test flight ! Has happened earlier prolly yesterday was the latest.

After Reading the Original Post , I would like to agree with what TSK had to say about the Survey ... Does this man even know the Mess on the Airside ... Where was this person earlier ?? Why didnt he do what he is doing now to ask for better airside facilities @ HAL in the name of public safety ??

Checked in Baggage - How many of you have waited for more than 30 - 45 minutes to get yor baggege ? In today's world the baggage needs to be on the conveyor by the time you reach it ...

Intl Connecting to a Domestic Flight - What happens in this scenrio if one has a connecting domestic flight ? Not all of them can schedule with a 4 hour gap to travel to HAL ...

EOD - Considering the above facts ... I would say go BIAL... .Cos Air Travel Safety is more important than the location of the airport one is travelling from, then comes the Facilities and service.
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Old 12th February 2008, 19:07   #42
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Quote:
Checked in Baggage - How many of you have waited for more than 30 - 45 minutes to get yor baggege ? In today's world the baggage needs to be on the conveyor by the time you reach it ...
Over an hour for international flights in my case. Sometime it is lost, as someone will pull it off and keep it on the side buried under another bag
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Old 12th February 2008, 19:41   #43
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Default HAL ATC Radar - Some Info

On the ATC radar (SSR) airplanes just appear like dots with a few numbers alongside. These numbers show the Aircraft's identity, airspeed and direction. There is a "transponder" on the aircraft with an ATC assigned frequency. That unit "talks" to the ATC radar unit and hence the details of the aircraft speed, altitude and direction is displayed on the radar screen. In the Current System Used @ HAL a basic, old generation monochrome radar system, none of this is possible and all that an ATC officer sees is a "blip" on the screen.

My Question is would you feel safe in this Scenario .....
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Old 12th February 2008, 19:56   #44
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I guess its NOT BIAL vs HAL - but BIAL alone vs both that and HAL.
For really short haul flights (Blore-Chennai/Hyd/Mlore/Hubli/Coimbatore) - and early morning/late night ones (for 1 day domestic biz trips) - HAL makes more sense. For the rest the new airport does. Leaves manageable traffic for HAL and the airport road, and gives BIAL more breating time for growth.
SFO and San Jose come to mind.
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Old 12th February 2008, 21:18   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
40 BMTC Volvo buses with frequency of 10-15 minutes each will ply to BIAL Devanahalli.

Deccan Herald - Airport buses to ply in March

Good move by BMTC!
Unfortunately the roads on which they will ply are the same
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