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Old 12th February 2008, 21:25   #46
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Originally Posted by raftaar View Post
the govt is TOTALLY responsible for this mess.
.
Which government ... DS, HDK, Yeddi, ... the list is too long!! These political jokers in the state are beyond words. I am getting my voter ID this time to make a choice ... but who ...???

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Besides, it is time airport road lightened up (what will they rename it after BIAL kicks in?)
My suggestion ... "IUTB (it used to be) Airport Road"

Last edited by ajmat : 13th February 2008 at 09:04.
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Old 13th February 2008, 00:19   #47
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As a long time sufferer on Airport road user I'm counting down the days to March 31st.

However my chances of flying to Chennai/Coimbatore again is almost zilch as it would be faster to drive to these locations.
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Old 13th February 2008, 02:46   #48
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Just in comparison, think of HAL's current mess - then see for example what hyderabad airport is coming up to become:
HIA - Project Details - Live Footage

Interesting view of what we'd ourselves want from the airport, no?
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Old 13th February 2008, 03:19   #49
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Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
BIAL is a business and like all businesses, it exists to make money as well. If the business proposition of new airport was based on exclusive airport contract and the government signed that contract, we must honor that. Not doing so will cause ill will for Bangalore.

The real solution is obviously to have trains and expressway etc however that looks like remote possibility for now considering the work for expressway has been given to NHAI only very recently. So, we all have to suffer because our govt screwed up, the govt we all voted to power.
Well, I agree that the govt should honour the contract they have signed! However, they must be very clear in terms of BIAL not being able to work as a monopoly! Where is this passenger fee coming from, how is it arrived at, what kind of break even are they planning. What prevents this fee to be Rs. 2000/- tomorrow ? Some of the run-down airports internationally are private run and monopolies of sorts - private ownership is great and I am all for it, but only helps when there is real competition!

Also, in no way I think the contract was a fair one. If one went with this logic of monopoly airports, then no private airport would have existed in US (and almost all airports in US are private ones) and multiple exist per city as is common knowledge. So, raising awareness on this front puts pressure on the govt to sign more desirable contracts in the future.

We seem to be under the illusion that any private company investing in infrastructure is doing this as a "public good" w/o profit motive, so we need to beg for the same. The profitability has to be arrived by benchmarking against other similar projects worldwide, and there must be a business case for it. Maybe, the decision to have an airport 50km away in India, does not make sense in the first place ? Maybe, there were better locations between Bangalore and Mysore (if they had to be 50km away). And the passenger traffic has greatly increased in BLR (and is increasing) since the original business case was made ? Should that not be re-factored in ? What about airlines who maybe unable to fly out of BIAL anymore as there is no business case ? Have they not invested in airplanes, and infrastructure to support low-cost travel ? Don't they need to make a profit ?

And let's not be under illusion that this is best in class - its, probably, an above-average airport by world standards... Just the other day, I read that even cargo facilities are not done and they are planning some makeshift stuff less than 2months before starting up - they didn't even bother to discuss with the cargo operators on how things should move forward ...

Just to point out that there are good things and bad things with the way things have panned out ! And I have no problems with all international flights out of BIAL. I only mentioned that a large chunk of domestic (esp. short-haul traffic) is doomed because business case for it does not exist for the individual and the airlines...

Regards,

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
Take the bus - the airport buses some i fairly accessible places
Well, probably we should plan 3 hours instead of 2 if we do this ? For someone who flies frequently, I am afraid it does not seem a probable solution. And what is the frequency of these buses that now BIAL has to run (I am assuming they wouldn't like an incomepetent AAI doing it still) ? Has BIAL made any innovative approaches in this regard, to ease the issue of reaching the island ?

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Originally Posted by ajmat View Post
As for HAL - it is a drag to come back to after each trip. I prefer the pain of waiting for the access means to be developed for BIAL. Besides, it is time airport road lightened up (what will they rename it after BIAL kicks in?)
Well, I dread that part with HAL during the international arrival :-( However, we are talking of the need for a short-haul to medium-haul domestic alternative ... I am not sure Airport Road will lighten up that much, if large parts of the current land with HAL is put to office and retail space ? If anything, peak time traffic may worsen in a year or two?


Regards,

Last edited by Samurai : 13th February 2008 at 07:43.
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Old 13th February 2008, 09:07   #50
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Well, probably we should plan 3 hours instead of 2 if we do this ? For someone who flies frequently, I am afraid it does not seem a probable solution. And what is the frequency of these buses that now BIAL has to run (I am assuming they wouldn't like an incomepetent AAI doing it still) ? Has BIAL made any innovative approaches in this regard, to ease the issue of reaching the island ?
BMTC will run it and I think they have done well with the Volvo bus. I occasionally used it to go home from airport road and it seems a lot faster than driving. One thing to note - you can check in for most flights on the web
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Old 13th February 2008, 09:29   #51
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PDCA - Plan Do Check Act - thats the approach the government is taking. As much as the infra should be put in place first to access the airport it might just work the other way. Now it might appear that if anyone has a meeting in Chennai, its faster to drive down than go by flight.
2 hours to reach airport,
1 hour checkin,
1 hr flight,
1 hr travel time from chennai airport.
total : 5 Hrs.
drive from Blore to Chennai: 5 Hrs. (or if you are Krazy : 3.5 hrs)
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Old 13th February 2008, 09:42   #52
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Its true only if the flight takes off on time .
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Originally Posted by madan80 View Post
Now it might appear that if anyone has a meeting in Chennai, its faster to drive down than go by flight.
2 hours to reach airport,
1 hour checkin,
1 hr flight,
1 hr travel time from chennai airport.
total : 5 Hrs.
drive from Blore to Chennai: 5 Hrs. (or if you are Krazy : 3.5 hrs)
I think the janta is unduly worried about the approach road (the last 4km) to airport. How long does it take a lay a 4Km road? 1 day? 2 days? So even if they start on 30th March, road will be ready by inauguration.

Last edited by diabloo : 13th February 2008 at 09:48.
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Old 13th February 2008, 10:02   #53
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I think it is good that HAL airport is closed and all Air Traffic moved to BIAL.

BIAL has rightfully won the contract to build the Airport. This was after several other players pulled out. BIAL also has managed the project to be on schedule after numerous interruptions from the cursed politicians (read DG, HDK, and family).

HAL has suddenly woken up to the fact that it is going to lose the only revenue that it was earning.
Please do remember that HAL airport is not cheap. It is one of the costliest airport for the Airlines to operate ( Heard directly from a Airline official)

It is pathetic to the point that there are no luggage handling machinery. If you flight lands you can see porters hauling luggage from the plane and loading it on to a tractor as if it was a train.

Even a year ago the toilets in the waiting lounge were horrible and stinking.

Now suddenly HAL has realized it is going to lose money. A few HAL employees are writing sympathetic articles in papers and trying to divert the issue by claiming traffic issues in transit to the new Airport.

I admit there are going to be traffic issues on the road to BIAL but people must realize that the road to the new airport is being widened. There is going to be a Elevated Train coming up in 2 years. Over time these issues will be sorted.
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Old 13th February 2008, 14:45   #54
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Point to ponder:
Andhra Pradesh cuts sales tax on ATF to 4%

Why doesnt RK Mishra come up with something like this for BIAL? Or is all he/his team achieve is a horribly myopic unimaginative lopsided survey
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Old 13th February 2008, 15:20   #55
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Well hope the nice coridor is complete before elections as he wont be havin any opposition from anyone as the state is under prez rule.
Well the negatives of HAL airport is alot. When you travel by air deccan the flight is parked at some field where the approach roads are worse than the road used in coorg with all muck and holes. Lukcily we have not seen any incidents of the bus getting stuck. The first luggage belt is really small and can actually accomadate 20 people.
The parking is really limited and the approach road to the airport is always jam packed with people stopping their cars on the road to remove luggage.
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Old 13th February 2008, 15:36   #56
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Thumbs up Flight from Bengaluru to Pune on Apr 5th.

Hi,
I was wondering what preparations to be done to catch a plane to
Pune from Bengaluru. I'm travelling on the the 5th of April (Saturday).

I think I might book an IndiGo ticket. 10:10 am is the flight departure.

So, what would the forum members suggest. Right from moving
from my place (Jayanagar) to devanhalli. What time should I move from
home?
Assuming thing are not smooth right from day 1 @ the new airport, should we expect a delay in all flight schedules ?

I have a Zen so would it be safe to drive and park it @ the Airport for
say 4 days? Or take a Rick/Bus ?

Or I just book a Bus tkt to Pune this time and wait and watch the proceedings at the new airport. Pune Airport is also closed for maintenance I heard. It will be completed this month end.

Your Advice will be helpful.

Thanks.
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Old 13th February 2008, 16:49   #57
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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
Also, in no way I think the contract was a fair one. If one went with this logic of monopoly airports, then no private airport would have existed in US (and almost all airports in US are private ones) and multiple exist per city as is common knowledge. So, raising awareness on this front puts pressure on the govt to sign more desirable contracts in the future.
As mentioned in one of the posts, the exclusive contract is for 5 years and not forever. Besides, talking about monopoly is not correct here. Lets rewind the clock a bit.

Govt wanted another airport a few years back. They invited bids. There were condition from both the sides and a contract was signed. Where is monopoly coming into the picture ?

Please don't get me wrong. I am a big fan of fair competition and choice and I am totally anti-monopoly. All I am saying is, it is not correct to call this monopoly when it is a question of business viability that is built in the contract.

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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
We seem to be under the illusion that any private company investing in infrastructure is doing this as a "public good" w/o profit motive, so we need to beg for the same.
And pray why do you think that we are under illusion. I don't think anyone is under this illusion.

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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
The profitability has to be arrived by benchmarking against other similar projects worldwide, and there must be a business case for it.
True and do you know if there isn't a business case for BIAL ? Do you believe that Govt agreed for these clauses without looking at the business case ?

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Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
Maybe, the decision to have an airport 50km away in India, does not make sense in the first place ? Maybe, there were better locations between Bangalore and Mysore (if they had to be 50km away). And the passenger traffic has greatly increased in BLR (and is increasing) since the original business case was made ? Should that not be re-factored in ?
Not sure if BIAL made that decision or it was Govt who made that decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
What about airlines who maybe unable to fly out of BIAL anymore as there is no business case ? Have they not invested in airplanes, and infrastructure to support low-cost travel ? Don't they need to make a profit ?
There is a difference. Govt invited contract to build the airport. This is an entirely different scenario than a player (airline) entering a business which is open to all. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.
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Old 13th February 2008, 17:12   #58
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Originally Posted by Mayavi View Post
How many of SAHYOG's members are AAI employees grumbling about losing their cush public sector jobs to a private company where they have to put in an honest day's work?
; sorry, but could not resist.

All I've ever wanted was an honest week's pay for an honest day's work.
-- Steve Martin
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Old 13th February 2008, 18:37   #59
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HAL is primarily an airport centred around HAL's work for the Air Force. It was not meant to be an international airport. However with the economy & IT boom things happened fast. It was great that HAL could cope up with all this for so long. But there is an obvious limit to all this. You cannot have military aircraft and commercial aircraft vying for the same runway, day in and day out. My office is directly over the runway flightpath and we see innumerable MIG's, LCA, Mirage etc take off or land.

Military aircraft are given precedence and there have been instances when the runway has been shutdown for commercial flights for 2 hrs. Examples being during the International airshow and when some visiting dignitary wants to watch the LCA or the ALH in action.

Car parking space is at a premium there. You have traffic jams due to cabs filling up the roads. I'll not even talk about what's happening inside the terminals as they've been touched upon.

Progress has to be made at some point. There is a disaster waiting to happen. We've already had near misses when a plane was about to land when there was another one taxing on the runway. You can't blame the ATC also, they are human and ATC work is supposed to be the most stressful of the lot. Given the outdated systems we have its a wonder that nothing has happened. A lot of thanks also goes to the ATC for their great work on this front.

Blame the government for not providing sufficient infrastructure. Well the airport has been in the making for 5 yrs. What did the government do for so long? You could have laid roads, railway tracks, monorail, express highways, flyovers.. what not in those 5 yrs. But either they are partially done or not done at all. That is the difference between a developing nation and a developed nation.
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Old 13th February 2008, 20:05   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lancer_rit View Post
Maybe, the decision to have an airport 50km away in India, does not make sense in the first place ?
Guess that give enough space for the city to grow in future.
Quote:
Maybe, there were better locations between Bangalore and Mysore (if they had to be 50km away).
Already the nice project is not taking off in that area. Guess who has all the vested interest there... even this project would not have taken place.
Quote:
And the passenger traffic has greatly increased in BLR (and is increasing) since the original business case was made ?
I guess bial took that into account and at some point of time revised the passenger handling capacity.
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