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Old 13th February 2008, 20:09   #61
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Now that airport is located in north, let the business activity start there and let the pressure on south-west Bengalooru ease a bit.
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Old 14th February 2008, 20:31   #62
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ok.........we've all said a lot about this issue. now, we're all beginning to repeat the same pros and cons. while thats fine, it doesn't look like we're getting anywhere with this.

the fact remains. the plans for this airport was made over 10-12 years ago. no point in ANYONE waking up now. why? things can't be pulled back, especially now.

all that all of us can do, is to wholeheartedly support the new airport, goad our govt into doing what is right which is, build roads and augment public transport.

we have to remember, as examples, when the calcutta & bombay airports were introduced, they were real far from the city centre. now, the areas around the airport are as or more thickly populated as the city centre. do you think people in colaba complained about the airport being in santa cruz? should those living in yelahanka and beyond complain and say that the HAL airport is too far away for them?

let us remember. there isn't one solution to any problem that will keep everyone happy. cheers to that!
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Old 15th February 2008, 00:30   #63
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Related discussion: 5 + 1 questions for M/s Ramanathan, Misra & Co « churumuri
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Old 15th February 2008, 01:41   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkrishn View Post
Guess that give enough space for the city to grow in future. Already the nice project is not taking off in that area. Guess who has all the vested interest there... even this project would not have taken place. I guess bial took that into account and at some point of time revised the passenger handling capacity.
BIAL did not propose higher capacity nor revise its capacity voluntarily (though you would imagine a modern airport operator would welcome higher volumes) - the govt. had to force it to do so. The point about increased passenger traffic (which has increased from ~5 million to over 10 million, is that the revenues and %age return (over operating costs) has increased substantially as compared to the original bid situation ...

My point is not about dishonouring agreements made - we must honour agreements. But people must raise issues concerning them, the practicality or otherwise of solutions planned / provided, to influence better decisions and agreements for the future. For a large city like BLR, preventing another airport (domestic or otherwise) in 150km radius is plain ridiculous. Mysore guys better plan their airport south west of their city, else it maybe encroaching BIAL territory !! The govt policy on such matters needs to be modified asap for future agreements, so that we don't remain a 3rd world country with ultra low airport density even in the most populated corridors... And having that option of 2nd airport in a place, does not mean the 2nd airport will be built unless there is a business case for it!
Airports are for the people using it, not for the govt, not for the operator (eg. HAL or BIAL or whoever that is) - so, this has to be the paramount concern. I refuse to believe that airports will not be viable if bidders don't get sops of every kind!
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Old 15th February 2008, 02:13   #65
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Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
As mentioned in one of the posts, the exclusive contract is for 5 years and not forever. Besides, talking about monopoly is not correct here. Lets rewind the clock a bit.

Govt wanted another airport a few years back. They invited bids. There were condition from both the sides and a contract was signed. Where is monopoly coming into the picture ?

Please don't get me wrong. I am a big fan of fair competition and choice and I am totally anti-monopoly. All I am saying is, it is not correct to call this monopoly when it is a question of business viability that is built in the contract.
I said we must look out for future agreements of this nature. Not allowing another airport to operate creates a monopoly operator in every definition of the word. What we did in the past, we must analyse and learn from, for the future. Every company could invoke the viability clause to get itself monopoly protection - thats not an argument at all. Maybe, they need to charge twice the fees, and so does the other operator (as and when that operator decides a 2nd airport is viable, or indeed they can provide a better solution). That is free market and competition. If the 1st guy or 2nd guy fail, are not efficient, don't provide value to the customer, they should legitimately go out of business! All business face the same risk, and why should an airport constructor/operator be different ? Now,BIAL or HIAL (Hyderabad) had it too good - we honour the agreements there. However, for the future, this is unacceptable! One just takes a monopoly of AAI and replaces with another private one, cannot be allowed in the future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
And pray why do you think that we are under illusion. I don't think anyone is under this illusion.
I didn't intend to mean that everyone is, but, let me rephrase. We must be constructive about BIAL. We must support what they do good, and criticize where they fail, mismanage, and/or need to improve. Many of the posts here (could be i am wrong), seem to read like "BIAL rescues the Bangalorean from the clutches and lowlights of HAL" -> great! for someone whose uses HAL airport more than 2 dozen times a year, HAL sucks big time. However, do we want BIAL to provide HAL++, or a world class, best of breed airport ? If its the latter, then we need to do our bit to make BIAL aware of their shortcomings, or ?
Read these articles to see how BIAL has been below average in several areas in the past and were forced by ministry of civil aviation to pull up their socks!
Deccan Herald - 'Factory-like' airport is an eyesore, says Centre
Bangalore airport design flawed-Bangalore-Cities-The Times of India
Incredibly, I read recently a report quoting Albert Brunner (CEO of BIAL) saying that the runway is capable of receving an A380 but the hangars are not designed for it ! After, Delhi and Bombay old airports modified themselves to enable A380, this seems the kind of retrograde behavior we need to protest, or ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
True and do you know if there isn't a business case for BIAL ? Do you believe that Govt agreed for these clauses without looking at the business case ?
Frankly, I don't know - so I put it as a question and more to emphasize that an interested party will ofcourse want the best business case, but has it really been reviewed in hind sight to learn for the future ? The BIAL and HIAL airports were new endeavors for the govt, so everyone needs to do a lot of learning ... As an extreme case, the govt agreed to the Enron deal for Dabhol. Everyone agrees that deal was unfair, lopsided, and untenable. It was said by many that it could be treated as a case of Enron duping the Govt. into an agreement by exaggerating the "true" benefits of the deal!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hondadude View Post
There is a difference. Govt invited contract to build the airport. This is an entirely different scenario than a player (airline) entering a business which is open to all. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.
You miss what I wanted to say. I didn't mean compare the two. Govt has a responsibility not only to airport operators but to be fair to various businesses in the eco-system. Airlines are operating already (using existing airports), and if suddenly changes the rules of engagement, it is not fair on them - Govt has to balance financial impacts for various parties involved - most of all, it needs to keep customers' interests uppermost. Hence, for the future, they need to ask more than one dimensional questions on various aspects and dynamics of such large infrastructure projects that involve multiple businesses - operator, airlines, cargo, services etc..
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:04   #66
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There is a change in the air.

Visitors from Bangalore who are scheduled to visit in April have started asking me which is the best route if coming by road. This is especially the case with visitors from South Bangalore. They figure if it means 6 hours via Air and 8 hours via car, why not take the cheaper route and do some sight seeing as well. It will be a pleasant escape for them.

Even I am having similar thoughts, but it is harder to drive into Bangalore from outside for quick visits. It will be tiring to deal with traffic, parking, etc.
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:07   #67
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TOI wasnt kidding when they mentioned that demand for short0haul flights were ona nosedive. It i were to make a choice based on the current situation, i would definitely think of driving down, or taking a bus.
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:08   #68
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Todays Hindu did a trial run from various parts of the city to reach the new airport between 9 and 9.30 AM. I think the maximum was like around 2 hrs.
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:13   #69
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Completely Agree,

You can count in the Delhi Airports too, when they were opened, you will be scared to drive at night as there will be hardly any traffic on the roads to the airport.

But look at now

Quote:
Originally Posted by raftaar View Post
ok.........we've all said a lot about this issue. now, we're all beginning to repeat the same pros and cons. while thats fine, it doesn't look like we're getting anywhere with this.

the fact remains. the plans for this airport was made over 10-12 years ago. no point in ANYONE waking up now. why? things can't be pulled back, especially now.

all that all of us can do, is to wholeheartedly support the new airport, goad our govt into doing what is right which is, build roads and augment public transport.

we have to remember, as examples, when the calcutta & bombay airports were introduced, they were real far from the city centre. now, the areas around the airport are as or more thickly populated as the city centre. do you think people in colaba complained about the airport being in santa cruz? should those living in yelahanka and beyond complain and say that the HAL airport is too far away for them?

let us remember. there isn't one solution to any problem that will keep everyone happy. cheers to that!
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:23   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
Todays Hindu did a trial run from various parts of the city to reach the new airport between 9 and 9.30 AM. I think the maximum was like around 2 hrs.
Maybe because theirs was the only car going in that direction.
Let the number of cars in that direction go high and then the fun starts.


Personally, I am very happy that the airports are moving out of the cities.
In Hyderabad I am sure that it is going to be at least 10k cars less on the Begumpet road.

I dont fly as often as I use this road.
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:28   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
TOI wasnt kidding when they mentioned that demand for short0haul flights were ona nosedive. It i were to make a choice based on the current situation, i would definitely think of driving down, or taking a bus.
There is a case for non-connecting domestic flights to operate out of HAL. The BIAL usage fee + travel time/expense will surely hit cheap, short-haul flights. I bet a certain Laloo Yadav is quietly smiling.
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:47   #72
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What happened to these SMS voted leaders now that they suddenly remembered connectivity will be the issue. They are as short sighted as our political leaders. So why complain.

Will they allow HAL airport to be operated by BIAL ? HAL will lose 600 cr a year. Now is that the issue ?

Last edited by srishiva : 12th March 2008 at 15:48.
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Old 12th March 2008, 15:55   #73
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Most of the international flights come around or after 10pm. So, govt should make sure that the travel back from BIAL is really safe with good lightings, patrol cops etc. Else Its really dangerous to travel at that time.
The public transit facilities will be handy in these situation. Hope the Volvo's news are going to happen for real and not just in paper.
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Old 12th March 2008, 17:00   #74
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Question HAL until better connectivity

My story:

Every Monday morning I fly to Mumbai and return Friday night.
My desi customer expects me to be onsite the entire time he is paying. Which means, I take flights departing not later than 9AM (to) and not earlier than 8PM (fro). So, I usually reach home after 1130PM Friday.

And this, when I live in brookefields.
I shudder to think what will happen if HAL airport is closed before we get better connectivity to BIAL!!!

I hate the HAL airport. Baggage retrieval, toilets, trolleys, seats. We need a better airport, but please give me means to reach there quickly, safely and at reasonable cost.

I might even drive to BIAL and pay parking for 5 days and drive back home. But wouldn't work if extended parking rates aren't reasonable.

Most business commuters wouldn't be landing before 10PM. Buses might not ply at such times. Neither would it be safe taking ricks (hell, I have had fist fight with auto wallah on ITPL main road; the devanhalli road is so much more unlighted and lonely). Left with taxis that charge almost 1K.

But, for a guy who’s away from home entire week, the prospect to reaching home at 1AM on Friday night is definitely not pleasant.

Time for job change?
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Old 12th March 2008, 21:31   #75
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For me having any one of the 2 airports is fine or having both is also fine. Guys whatever and how much ever we discuss the govt is going to do what they want. Our govt (state and central) both suck! Its the common man like us who finally gets affected because of the stupid decisions (if not all atleast the majority) taken by the govt. For the overall progress and convenience of Bangalore i think we need to have both the airports till the connectivity issue is solved. But i dont agree with having 2 airports in bangalore even after the connectivity issue is fixed (might take around a year to solve this issue) because if the govt has to maintain 2 airports then their expenses will increase and to meet their expenses they are going to tax the common man by other means (its not necessary they have to increase the toll charge etc, airport charges. They might introduce some new charges). They are govt and can make new rules anytime any day!
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