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Old 12th February 2008, 03:41   #16
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Come to think of it,what does Pakistan gain by locking these people up for over 30 years? Even 5 years,and what's the whole point? If its a serious offender,we'd all understand.
And when India has (for the most part) returned POWs,isn't it only appropriate that Pakistan does the same?
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Old 12th February 2008, 15:48   #17
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Come to think of it,what does Pakistan gain by locking these people up for over 30 years? Even 5 years,and what's the whole point? If its a serious offender,we'd all understand.
And when India has (for the most part) returned POWs,isn't it only appropriate that Pakistan does the same?
Kashmir Singh has been shifted from prison to a hospital.

They are the forgotten heroes of India. Hopefully things have started moving with this case. I have contacted the Minister office and given him details of the mans family.

God willing he will be released soon.

Shame on our national media for ignoring this story. They are far more concerned with the drop in Reliance Powers share price after the IPO, the price of Basmati and even the shooting of the East Timor President than breaking stories of our forgotten POW.

Last edited by bigman : 12th February 2008 at 15:58.
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:08   #18
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I have contacted the Minister office and given him details of the mans family.
How did you find that?
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:26   #19
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Good work dude. Seriously sad the way prisoners of war are being treated by any country. Well such stories will actually send jitters down peoples spine looking at what you get back for serving your country.
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:30   #20
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1971 was a great movie,But its a Sad Truth...what can the Indian Goverment do in this case- You can present evidence but they keep moving the prisoners, deny their existence all together.

On the the other hand, The Indian Goverment repatriated all the captured POW under the Geneva convention immediately after the signing of the Shimla Pact.

Always The Indians perform acts of goodwill, by releasing those captured under espionage,entering illegally,fishing in territorial waters of India. For Both nations concerend Pakistan and Bangladesh ( One which owes us its very existence, but never shies away from stabbing us,blaming us).

Dreams of freedom are forgotten for these brave souls, but at least they should not be forgotten.
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:38   #21
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How did you find that?
The power of the Internet, amazing what you can do sat at home in England.

To be honest the story triggered somthing in my mind. I recalled reading about this chap a few years ago. So off I went into the loft to check my old collection of India Today magazines. Nothing there, the other daily source for my Indian news is the Tribune India newspaper (online). Did a search and hey presto I found the old story together with details of Kashmir Singhs family including an address etc.

The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Punjab

Phonecall and SMS made to Ansar Burneys PA and to Ansar Burney confirming the contact details for the family of Kashmir Singh. The High Commission for India in Islamabad apparently have no idea who the chap is.

Last edited by bigman : 12th February 2008 at 16:44.
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Old 12th February 2008, 16:43   #22
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I bow down to U,sir.
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Old 12th February 2008, 22:22   #23
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Call me a cynic but the government knows more than they let on. Just look at the case of the two soldiers who were captured by Pakistan during the Kargil war. Were they not declared deserters ? Shame on the Indian Government. It is not just the government but our press which fails to publicise the injustice.
Thats the SOP - Standard Operating Procedure, where in a soldier will be declared deserter if he is missing and it is not known for sure that he has been captured. If you know any army person in your family, ask them to overstay their leave without informing their commanding officer. They would be declared deserters after some time and an arrest warrant will be issued in their Name.

Mohammed Arif and Singh, both have been declared deserters as they were not captured in war. They went missing (fell on the pakistani side and were captured). Following SOP, Army declared them deserters after kargil war when they could not be accounted as Dead, MIA or Captured (tally from pak). Thats how million strong armies are run - on SOP's, not on whims and feelings. Many people desert army in a given year, some posted on front lines. You cant assume everyone is captured by pakistan and kick start a bureaucratic process to get them released.

The Press you talk about and the billion people who this army protects is clueless about how the army works or what it takes to get a man sacrifice his life for 10,000 Rs.

I commend what you are trying to do, but blaming government or army for not taking action isn't the way to go IMO. There are limitations to what one can do working within a system.
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Old 13th February 2008, 01:36   #24
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Thats the SOP - Standard Operating Procedure, where in a soldier will be declared deserter if he is missing and it is not known for sure that he has been captured. If you know any army person in your family, ask them to overstay their leave without informing their commanding officer. They would be declared deserters after some time and an arrest warrant will be issued in their Name.

Mohammed Arif and Singh, both have been declared deserters as they were not captured in war. They went missing (fell on the pakistani side and were captured). Following SOP, Army declared them deserters after kargil war when they could not be accounted as Dead, MIA or Captured (tally from pak). Thats how million strong armies are run - on SOP's, not on whims and feelings. Many people desert army in a given year, some posted on front lines. You cant assume everyone is captured by pakistan and kick start a bureaucratic process to get them released.

The Press you talk about and the billion people who this army protects is clueless about how the army works or what it takes to get a man sacrifice his life for 10,000 Rs.

I commend what you are trying to do, but blaming government or army for not taking action isn't the way to go IMO. There are limitations to what one can do working within a system.
The government is partially to blame. They must have known where Kashmir Singh was operating. He would not just wonder into Lahore on a whim. His family received letters from him so his wherabouts were known. CID form Jallandhar used to visit the family and assure them he would be released soon and gave them RS 5000. So why the cover up ?

Can you imagine the USA, France or Germany leaving any civillian let alone an operative to rot in a foreign prison like this for 35 years ? Some form of deal would have been worked out.

Deals are worked out all the time, I could give you several instances where sons/daughters of 'elite' Indian politicians were arrested overseas. Diplomatic immunity could not be used as they were not there on any form of official business. On the intervention of senior civl servants and politicians releases have occured without the stories even breaking into the media. I guess like countless other sons of India, Kashmir Singh lacked a relative who was a high ranking politician.

Ah well everything appears to be ticking over and he will be released but India should make use of the good intentioned Federal Human Rights Minister and seek to bring back as many Indian prisoners as they can. With elections looming in Pakistan speed is an issue as Ansar Burney may not occupy his position for too long.
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Old 13th February 2008, 02:54   #25
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cheers:Some good news for you all. The family are now aware of the news.

This has restored my trust in some sections of the Indian press. I spoke with a journalist named Swati at Tribune India just after the press release had been issued yesterday in Pakistan. Subsequently all the details were sent to her via email including contact details for the family. Looks like she (or a collegue) have visited the family today.

The High Commission for India in Islamabad is now trying to confirm Kashmir Singhs credentials etc. Hopefully this process can be fast-tracked and his release will follow soon after and he can at last see his family after 35 years.


The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Punjab


Indian detained in Pak jail
No confirmation on release
Our Correspondent
Hoshiarpur, February 12
Family members of Kashmir Singh, alias Shallo Singh, son of Sansar Singh of Nangal Choran village in Mahilpur block of this district, who was arrested in 1973 on espionage charges in Pakistan, have yet to receive any confirmation about his release from the jail by the Indian government side.

The news item carried in a section of the press today has brought them delight. A large number of people of the adjoining areas visited Kashmir Singh's house to congratulate the family.

At Kashmir Singh's village his daughter-in-law Manjit Kaur said though, she had not seen her father-in-law, but her mother-in-law had told about him.

Her father-in-law joined the Indian Army in 1962. He left the service on December 21, 1966 and served it in other capacity from June 1968 to May 1970 for which a line officer of Army Headquarter, Jalandhar Cantonment had issued him a certificate of appreciation for his work.

On October 20, 1971, her father-in-law was again recruited as sepoy No. 2261 at Amritsar. After getting one day’s leave from assistant sub inspector Jaswant Singh, he came to the house on August 11, 1972.

Thereafter he left for his duty and did not return home. The family members searched him everywhere, but could not succeed in getting his whereabouts.

On June 16, 1973, as the family came to know about the arrest of Kashmir Singh in Pakistan on espionage charges, his wife Paramjit Kaur went to subedar major Sucha Singh at Army headquarters, Jalandhar cantonment and apprised him about the arrest of her husband for spying.

Subedar major Sucha Singh assured her husband would be got released at the earliest. During the period of three years, no information had been received about him and on October 26, 1976, a letter of Kashmir Singh was received from the Kot Lakhpat jail in Pakistan in which he informed he was arrested for spying charges and had been sentenced to capital punishment for which he had filed an appeal against the decision.

On June 30, 1978 some Army officers from Jalandhar cantonment, came to Paramjit Kaur and provided monetary help of Rs 5,000 with assurance that efforts were being done to get Kashmir Singh released.

During the regime of late Benazir Bhutto, the capital punishment was converted into life imprisonment.

On October 11, 1996, Paramjit Kaur received a letter from the Indian embassy in Pakistan in which it was stated that efforts were being initiated to get released Kashmir Singh.

The family came to know on February 17, 2006 that Kashmir Singh was in Mianwali jail in Pakistan, said Manjit Kaur.

Kashmir Singh's wife Paramjit Kaur said today, she heard the news that her husband will be released very shortly.

"Finally, God has accepted my prayers. But I can only be satisfied when I will actually see him", said Paramjit Kaur.

Kashmir Singh has two sons Amarjit Singh and Shashpal and two daughters Manjit Kaur and Paramjit Kaur. All had been married in his absence.

Amarjit Singh has gone to Italy for earning his livelihood and Shashpal Singh is doing farming in the village. Both brothers had two children each.

Last edited by bigman : 13th February 2008 at 02:57.
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Old 13th February 2008, 02:56   #26
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Wow!! I hope everything goes through smoothly,and this paves way for more Indians to be released from Pakistani jail!
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Old 13th February 2008, 03:01   #27
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Wow!! I hope everything goes through smoothly,and this paves way for more Indians to be released from Pakistani jail!
God willing more releases will follow.

I hope the Indian government make use of Minister Ansar Burney's good office and gets some work initiated to help secure the release of others.
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Old 13th February 2008, 03:49   #28
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True. If only such instances grab the attention of the media,and a nation-wide appeal is put to effect in order to have many (if not all) prisoners.

Forget 'Case against Sania Mirza for disrespecting the flag', or any other story on the same lines.. Wake up,people!
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Old 13th February 2008, 03:53   #29
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cheers:

Wow things move fast using the power of the internet. Just been in touch with someone who happens to be from the same village where Kashmir Singh's sister is married. Will be passing on the contact details of the Minister's office to his family within the next few days.
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Old 13th February 2008, 03:55   #30
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True. If only such instances grab the attention of the media,and a nation-wide appeal is put to effect in order to have many (if not all) prisoners.

Forget 'Case against Sania Mirza for disrespecting the flag', or any other story on the same lines.. Wake up,people!
True, the news channels such as Star News and NDTV are more concerned about creating news than reporting news. They spend more time telling us who Kareena is about to marry and the size of her engagement ring than on stories of real substance.
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