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Old 11th April 2008, 15:12   #61
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I have stopped visiting the website from past 2 months or so. Maybe the idea is to increase the magazine sales and stop all free info.
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Old 11th April 2008, 15:42   #62
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Originally Posted by Sacrosanct View Post
I have stopped visiting the website from past 2 months or so. Maybe the idea is to increase the magazine sales and stop all free info.
The website does not have the full-blown stories that appear in the hard copies. I dont think they would stop the website to boost sales of the magazines. And like I mentioned OD Forums is active on the website. But the content is not
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Old 11th April 2008, 18:01   #63
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Team OD -

Firstly, you guys are getting the request and comments because the group feels you are better equipped to take these views and get the show to be the best. You have shown a lot of endeavor by connecting with this forum and soliciting feedback. I guess we all know this as a first positive sign of possible improvements. We see hope in you guys. And trust me- the people who will be most happy with a great auto show are here on this forum

Secondly, I believe i.e. IMHO, the best is when an expert/enthusiast tests the car - connects with the passion thats built into the steel, rubber, oil and the electronics and gadgetery - and expresses himself in words of common person (a layman).

Thirdly, a television show allows you to go more in-depth with car performance. But you have to connect it with daily life. E.g. A turning circle of 5m and 8m - how do these impact drivability - you can simply say city driving will be painful - or you can highlight parking ease - ease of U-turns - smaller U-turns v/s large U-turn

Finally- I believe- auto benchmarking can be improved a lot - through relative benchmarking
E.g. (continuing with above example) - taking U-turns in carX is easier than indica but not as easy as in Alto. Or Car is wider than swift but lesser so than fiesta - such things make it easier to comprehend the turn raduius or width etc.


Again please note the intent rather than the language or other things - remember YOU are the auto-journalist/writer - I am a reader - I dont know how to write best - but I sure know good writing when I see on!) So do what you have to - to test the car properly. If for this it means carrying petrol in platic bottle - then do it! If it means using news-readers to test cars - thats fine as well - but let the end product be good - nay great!


Just to point out - Dilip Bam achieved all of this - and his magazine reviews (contrary to what you think) read well in pure grammatically correct english. It was colloquailly experienced - meaning he was able to translate what the machine did into what it meant for ordinary person. This is what I intended to say When I mentioned his name in earlier post - but you took it in wrong sense.

I guess you face the same choice as any company that takes feedback- be smug and dismiss what people say at face value - or genuinely learn what people "intend to say" and improve! Its your choice my friend. As for us - we have a choice to buy!

RD
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Old 11th April 2008, 18:10   #64
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Originally Posted by Team_OD View Post
rather than an online forum where not all members would have experienced all cars in a particular class firsthand,
Sorry team OD I differ here....as this forum has members with the vehicles with the price range starting from INR 1000 (scaled models) to as high as the one you had displayed on the show or may be more than that.

A novice who need a pre owned vehicle gets genuine piece of info and advice here...A new first time buyer learns lot many things and decides depending on bhpien's view what to but and what not to buy. We dont need the FIRSTHAND info on car......rather we need FIRSTHAND comparisn between cars in the segment WE (as an individual) are interested in...

Sometime do give a try to post a query to buy a new vehicle in What Car section...and see the responses you will get.....compare the info with the presenters you have...you will know what TBHP is....

I have a suggestion why not use some of the Team BHPiesn to host the show and see the TRP zooming past the sas bahu sagas...

All said and done.....Team BHP rocks...
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Old 11th April 2008, 19:20   #65
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Default A little annoying

Caught glimpses from this show last weekend, have to say I'm not too impressed. For one thing the main presenter dude, not sure what his name is, cannot speak properly - the voice modulation is too forced and a little too fake. I remember it being more than a little annoying.
Second thing I remember is that though they had a track to their use, not once did they did not talk us through it, instead showing short shots of the luxury barges going round random corners. The people seem too excited at simply driving those cars, rather than reviewing them critically. Third thing (oh the list is long!) was that we were told that the beemer doesn't have a good ride. How about highlighting the reason? The insistence on run flat tyres by the suits at munchen?
Fourth thing.. the beemer was declared the winner, this after different people drove different cars for the test; how about getting one person to drive - a la Stig, and then comparing times around the track to arrive at the best. Or doing some sort of a comparison with one parameter kept constant.

And lastly, what kind of serious auto show puts a wannabe glamorous presenter on top of the bonnet of a review car.
Common people you can do better than that.
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Old 11th April 2008, 21:57   #66
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Originally Posted by revvedup View Post
You are messing things up here, by trying to focus on two different categories of viewers you will eventually end up as a compromise show which neither the urban dweller nor the enthusiast will end up watching.

In my opinion you should better focus only on one type of viewer ;i.e; the enthusiast. And wasn't this the main purpose of the show itself to be an enthusiast show and not the old auto show in a new package. Please refrain from using the auto show for any sort of comparison. Even if you want to target the urban dweller do it by making automobiles entertaining (tracks, power slides,do unique things related to cars ) for the common viewer, atleast this is what TG does, and so well that people even remotely interested in automobiles watch it.
It isn't the auto show repackaged for sure, and we aren't using that for any sort of comparison. What I intended to show by quoting the two posts was to demonstrate the wide variety of stuff an audience expects from any auto show. This means compromise unless there is luxury of a lot of air time, and hence we are rooting for the enthusiast- and being entertaining for not-so-enthusiast audience as well.

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Originally Posted by wanderlustindia View Post
Slightly . The OD website is not updated for ages now. The Volvo XC90 is hogging the front page for more than 3-4 months now. Only the OD forums seem to show some activity.
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Originally Posted by Sacrosanct View Post
I have stopped visiting the website from past 2 months or so. Maybe the idea is to increase the magazine sales and stop all free info.
Our new website is in finishing stages and should be up soon, a lot of useful stuff is included with frequent updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post
I haven't tuned into any Indian produced automobile program, because these people cannot use proper audio engineering techniques (and products), and consequently the audio quality is horrible. Then they put some pathetic 'edgy' music (compressed MP3 file, pirated from the internet) on top of it so that the entire program goes to gutter.

I'd much rather hear pigs squeal, with the side benefit that chances of disinformation and propoganda are minimized!

Anyone seen this program can comment if this show is any different? I do not have any hope from Indian producers/technicians, they all seem universally incompetent. Perhaps if someone is smart enough to import some experienced guys from west (NRI or firangi), then things might be different.

PS: Let's not even talk about the camera work!

EDIT:: I do think that attempting a Top/Fifth Gear type presentation is inherently unsustainable since there are only so many interesting vehicles plus location in India, you'll run out of steam soon. Besides to get Top Gear quality you have to spend Top Gear type money on products and post processing. Either one spends the money, or keeps shut about benchmarking against those standards. A Suzuki800 will never be an IS350, no matter how much they try to 'emulate' the standards....and I am being polite here.

Use Hinglish and stop pretending to be something you aren't. A more straight talking, desi approach that connects to the junta will be successful, because that is what Top Gear is in Britain for the British -and western- audience.

We aren't British/English, although many 'educated' types try very hard, even mimicking the accents....The reason why TG/FG are popular is primarily because the presenters come across as authentic characters rooted in their local culture and not forced actors, a universal failing of all Indian automobile programs.
Indians are too afraid of using local languages and cultural references lest they be judged as 'inferior'/'uneducated' by their peers, the program that changes this will go on to be a huge hit.

In its present form this program can be safely classified as: FAIL.

but I am unable to gauge from your post if you have watched the episode personally before posting above comments and declaring it as an outright failure. If yes, then please be specific, citing some examples of what you liked (a remote possibility as you have formed your opinion before watching the show) and what you didn't. For one thing, we aren't actors and not even trying to be one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebird View Post
Sorry team OD I differ here....as this forum has members with the vehicles with the price range starting from INR 1000 (scaled models) to as high as the one you had displayed on the show or may be more than that.

A novice who need a pre owned vehicle gets genuine piece of info and advice here...A new first time buyer learns lot many things and decides depending on bhpien's view what to but and what not to buy. We dont need the FIRSTHAND info on car......rather we need FIRSTHAND comparisn between cars in the segment WE (as an individual) are interested in...

Sometime do give a try to post a query to buy a new vehicle in What Car section...and see the responses you will get.....compare the info with the presenters you have...you will know what TBHP is....

I have a suggestion why not use some of the Team BHPiesn to host the show and see the TRP zooming past the sas bahu sagas...

All said and done.....Team BHP rocks...
Now here again, I would kindly point out the fact that what percentage of bhpians with access to all the cars in a particular segment for long enough to be in a position of citing their pros and cons vis--vis each other. Again I am talking in the general perspective and not particular, which is very subjective.

For example, one forum member may own a Fiesta since the past two years, another member owns the Logan since the past two years, and a third prospective buyer wants to know if he should choose between the Logan and Fiesta or give the DZire a dekko. The Fiesta has been updated since then, the Logan is virtually unchanged (barring the frequent price cuts) and the DZire is the new challenger in the segment.
IMHO, a definite and objective verdict cannot be given unless the prospective buyer drives and lives with all the three cars, in their latest models for some time and finally puts his money down on the one he liked the most. As this is a rare possibility, this is where an automobile publication steps in.

What I am trying to get across is, there has to be one common factor while doing such a comparo, which is the user. What may be one man's pleasure may be another man's pain, and hence it will be a very ambiguous POV to say the least.

Views on three different cars given by three different drivers may be giving different weightage to different factors they look for while buying a car. In a nutshell, it is a very personal opinion. A statement like "performance is good" is very ambiguous. Is it better than the rival, but the fact may be that the owner of the second car isn't interested in performance at all, he bought the car because it was fuel-efficient.

This is way off-topic (on second thoughts, maybe not) but I hope you get my drift.

Regards,

Team OD
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Old 12th April 2008, 09:16   #67
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Team_OD: I was able to get the recorded program footage on the LAN here. I must admit it was painful to watch, and couldn't stand more than 2 minutes. It is another exercise in mediocrity, just like all other auto shows.
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Old 12th April 2008, 09:34   #68
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It seems like there is some fairly harsh criticism in here!! However, it would be interesting to see what points (of the contructive criticism) you are taking into consideration - do mention it if you get a chance.

Team_OD, do let us know when you upload the first episode to youtube for the benefit of those who were not able to catch the show on TV.

Cheers,
R
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Old 12th April 2008, 12:15   #69
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What are you people cribbing about??? When the content is good, nothing else matters.

Take Best Motoring for example. It's nowhere as good as TG in it's presentation, all of the vids are in Japanese (except some international versions), the audio quality is nothing to boast about and the choice of music is pathetic but, if you were to give me a choice between BM and TG, i'd choose BM anyday!!!

And this ain't just with me, ask anybody who downloads and watches them.

Watching a Skyline r35 go head to head at Tsukuba, against older modified versions is more interesting than watching Jeremy Clarkson doing some half hearted powerslides on an airstrip!!!

If OD can get some good drivers, spice it up with some on track action (which is what they seem to be aiming at), use a combination of stock and modified cars, i don't see why it shouldn't catch up.

This is what an international best motoring video looks like -

Shan2nu

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Old 12th April 2008, 13:45   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team_OD View Post
Some broadcast aspects have undergone a change, as opposed to Tuesday being the new episode, it will now be Saturday evening when the new episode will be telecasted, while the other three telecasts (Sun 12.30, Tues 6.30 and Sat 1.00 PM) will be reruns.
The 1 p.m. show is not a rerun, but a new episode, just finished watching it.

First impressions are positive, and i could see the efforts put in the camerawork. However, i felt that a lot of vague words such as hot, amazing, too good, etc. being used repeatedly, which do not help any bit to convey the message, remember, now you got audio and video together as a medium. You should make the most out of it. In addition, where are the track timings guys? You should make use of the VBOX that you have, so you could measure the speeds on the straights, and on the curves and compare them. For track times, only one rider should IMO test all the bikes/cars, to eliminate the differences i.e. skills, weight etc.

The jaguar story was just a filler IMO. Thanks for not allowing Shereen to scratch any vehicles.

You are definately the most promising auto-related show on Indian television IMO. Lets watch, whether you become the best auto-related show on Indian telly.

Best of luck!
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Old 12th April 2008, 15:31   #71
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Hey Team OD,

saw the second episode today on the comparo between the pulsar, zma and the apache rtr. must say, I could already discernsome improvements over thefirst show.

i really liked your track shots. there was some good camera work and editing there. just one point though- pls work a bit more on the sound mixing and conrtrol. there were instances where the audio was a bit boomy- i use a Tata sky connection with a very good AV set up so the sound distortion is very discernable at the time of viewing.

also, Sirish seemed a bit more confident this time round in front of the camera.

Shereen looket awesome as usual

looks like you folks are taking feedback in the right spirit and if you keep this up, very soon the show will be at par with international standards. already it is ahead of all teh other indian shows.

one point of appreciation. even though you tested the bikes in the searing heat and humidity of Chennai, all the riders had their leathers on- good to see you promote biking safety at the cost of your own discomfort.

as regards the magazine, after you last few issues, I feel you have made a tremendous leap forward in content and presentation and i am renewing my OD subscription after a gap of 3 years.

Cheers

Himanshu
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Old 12th April 2008, 19:14   #72
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Was just wondering - for OD's sake and ours - could we define the various parameters/dimensions of a vehicle for which comments would help - possibly subjective but less so than "amazing" as reported ?

Some stuff to look out for - even from an average buyers viewpoint? (I'm sure more knowledgeable members will ad more):

Seating:
2 adults+2 kids/4 adults+1kid/5 adults, etc. ?
Front/rear seats ok for a 5/10/15 hr drive.
Rear angle, thigh support - specifically ?

Drive: (refinement, fun)
With and without OEM rubber
- dry/wet, smooth/broken surface
Straight line vs cornering
Sedate, practical driving AND for sporty, enthusiast styles
impact on FE with switch in styles
Overtaking manners ? (combination of various attributes, but an important enough point. Usually need to slot into 3rd ? Hard braking behaviour ? Lane switch handling?)

Suspension/Handling:
Feedback vs plushness/ride (OEM/other rubber)
Full-load vs only-driver modes
Furious corners vs family-needs
Bottoming out habits over potholed stretches/monster breakers

FE:
Sedate city cycles with 90% AC
80-100kmph highway drives, 80% AC
Hard, expressway driving, 120kmph+, rapid acceleration/braking cycles. 100% AC
Traffic Jam scenario, 100%AC, lotsa red lights, idling, 1st/2nd gear crawls.

Sanity/Family considerations:
Service,spare costs
Service network
How many suitcases, bags
How easy to clean
Safety ?

Looks:
Soooo subjective - just describe paint quality, features, provide picture from standardized angles, opinion poll, TBhp opinion

Overall Buy Deal:
Suggest:
Ideal price
Current bargains
Usage considerations
Suggested rubber, ICE - both bu
Recommended version, alternatives

Basically, be bold, get into the details, and take a stand! I'm sure, like I said, there's way more to add.

Also - revisit opinion/ratings each time there's a price change, and 6 months after launch once there's feedback from real users. On TBhp this is a continuous process, and so the collective set of opinion(s) about a car are pretty accurate at any point in time.

Last edited by zenx : 12th April 2008 at 19:15.
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Old 14th April 2008, 10:09   #73
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checked out the first episode , pretty ok but it lacks the analysis of the CNB show on ndtv , plus the winner should not be decided over a lap time but a series of tests , i hardly think any prospective buyer of a 50 lakh car , will decide his choice on lap times . It seems hormazd & co are with ndtv now . also saw wheelspin on headlines today , again good because they showed the gallardo superleggera
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Old 14th April 2008, 12:46   #74
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I managed to catch a bit of the show on TV, mainly got to watch the advice section & the Jaguar video so can comment on only that.

Advice section: Was pretty decent with Shirish giving out clear advice & mentioning the pros of cons of the cars in question clearly. No dilly-dallying there & so pretty good.

Jaguar movie: It was a good movie in it's own right but the fact that was a little off putting was that it was quite old. The recently launched XF was shown to be still in protoyping stages amd labelled as "The New concept X11". I would seriously think that if you do want to run such features they should be more up to date.
I understand that in context of the recent TATA-JLR deal this is the right time to show such features but given the demographic you want to target aka the enthusiast, it would be more approppriate to give them the latest as most of them are already well versed with what's latest & what's old.

Anyway, good effort, will add more here when I get to catch the next episode.
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Old 14th April 2008, 13:47   #75
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Team_OD: Caught the second episode late, the comparo between the three bikes was nice.
- nice to see the anchor not putting her shoes on cars.
- Advice was better than earlier one.
- The jaguar section was not OD it seemed you just picked up a documentary & showed it(I know you might have your reasons but I believe this could have been shown separately i.e. not part of the OD show)

Some views on track event, nothing much wrong was good for the audience that you have for the show but just that being a biker myself I am just being picky here

- I was expecting better lean angles on those beauties it seems one of the riders(I wouldnt name) was not much of leaning guy while the other two were decent. Also I was wondering if the main stand scraping issue has been sorted out in the P220 or not as there was no mention of this which I myself has felt on the initial lots of P220.

You can check my review here

P220 Detailed Report (A Detailed Report on P220)

Looking forward to more episodes
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