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Old 2nd January 2015, 12:11   #196
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IT industry or rather IT employees in India are facing a problem of different kind. An increasing pool of senior and middle level employees drawing high salaries with no relevant role to play in the organisation.All these employees might have joined as freshers more than a decade back when IT industry in India was in infancy. But now companies are slowly becoming top heavy. Product companies can utilize these employees' experience to a great extent. But in service oriented companies like Infosys, TCS , Wipro etc soon these people will be looked upon as overheads. So we can expect more of these kinds of head count reduction.

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Old 2nd January 2015, 12:35   #197
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Only thing on point 3 is that the probability of a wildly successful venture (a la whatsapp or even Flipkart etc) is miniscule.
You don't have to tell me. Like any entrepreneur, I live in constant fear of going out of business. It is mostly about keeping the nose above water. Wild success is rarer than getting hit by lightening.

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An increasing pool of senior and middle level employees drawing high salaries with no relevant role to play in the organisation.All these employees might have joined as freshers more than a decade back when IT industry in India was in infancy. But now companies are slowly becoming top heavy.
This problem always existed, I saw it even in the 90s. But the senior/middle level staff of those days were helped by the fact that all service companies were growing very fast. When I joined TCS in 1992, they had 3300 employees. When I left in 1998, they had 11,000 employees. Now they have over 3 lakhs. This fast growth accommodated aging employees for decades. But now the growth has slowed, stopped or even reversing. TCS has no place to accommodate these excess seniors. This is applicable to all large service companies, everybody wants to shed now. They are all watching TCS to see how this exercise will work out.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 12:57   #198
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This problem always existed, I saw it even in the 90s. But the senior/middle level staff of those days were helped by the fact that all service companies were growing very fast. When I joined TCS in 1992, they had 3300 employees. When I left in 1998, they had 11,000 employees. Now they have over 3 lakhs. This fast growth accommodated aging employees for decades. But now the growth has slowed, stopped or even reversing. TCS has no place to accommodate these excess seniors. This is applicable to all large service companies, everybody wants to shed now. They are all watching TCS to see how this exercise will work out.
Totally agree. These people who were once pampered with multiple offers and excellent pay packages are today in a rude shock to see them suddenly out of favor from all quarters. Contrary to what stated in the petition it has nothing to do with ones performance or grade or past achievements. It is simply a matter of return for investments on today's date from company perspective.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 13:33   #199
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Totally agree. These people who were once pampered with multiple offers and excellent pay packages are today in a rude shock to see them suddenly out of favor from all quarters. Contrary to what stated in the petition it has nothing to do with ones performance or grade or past achievements. It is simply a matter of return for investments on today's date from company perspective.
Does it mean that there is no place for 14+ year experienced folks in the IT industry even if they are good at their job (I know most of them aren't and do not even know the T of technology)?

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The NPS foresees higher job mobility (even though it was primarily to reduce the pension burden) and also may have an element of social security.
Given the current state of inflation and billions of dollars being siphoned off the Indian economy every year (corruption, crony capitalism) and the sheer divide between rich and poor, one does not even know how much is or will be enough at the end.

Last edited by extreme_torque : 2nd January 2015 at 13:59. Reason: back-to-back post
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Old 2nd January 2015, 13:57   #200
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The above petition talks about illegal terminations of 25000+ employees. Can anyone explain the illegality of the terminations? I see they are giving 30 day notice, I remember it being 3 months in my days. Is that the illegal part?
Thats about 8% of the workforce, are we sure of the veracity of the numbers?
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Old 2nd January 2015, 15:42   #201
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Looking at the petition, at first glance it sounds like a disgruntled person with no skills or ability to find another job or was bought up with the "job=government job=job security=life set" mentality. While I definitely want to consider the possibility of genuine concerns because if I were in the same situation I would probably be as angry as him/her but what I am scratching my head over is thinking what could possibly be "illegal" here. Every one of us signs an employee agreement which for most of them are 30 days notice of either party. Unless and until this case is about the company not giving the employees a promised written clause in the agreement of 3 months severance pay etc, there is nothing wrong here. We all sign these agreements hoping that they will never come true. But if it says 1 month notice and the company called you and said they have decided to terminate your service and you have to serve 30 days, I fail to understand where this word "illegal" is coming from. Hurting your sentiments is not illegal. Also it is not the responsibility of the company to make sure you get another job in the market. My guess is these mass cuts are slowly starting to expose those middle level managers like someone else said here that doesn't know T of Technology and somehow feel that they are supposed to be given these jobs as granted as part of their fundamental right or something.

Mass cuts are a painful thing and all of us including me would feel depressed and offended over such scenarios but at the end of the day if you really thought that modern capitalist companies will be "grateful/loyal" to you, then.. you know... maybe you don't........ Welcome to the capitalist world.

Unless some written and signed agreement clause has been violated, there is nothing illegal here. While essential social security is very important function the government should ensure is met, it would be ridiculous for a government to intervene in the affairs of a company to tell them whom they should hire and whom they should retain. That is stepping over the line at the extreme end of socialism.

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Old 2nd January 2015, 16:05   #202
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Looking at the petition, at first glance it sounds like a disgruntled person with no skills or ability to find another job or was bought up with the "job=government job=job security=life set" mentality.
Cyrus, not commenting on your post.

When a young blood joins a job s/he would think they are the best in the market and with the hottest skills. One will stick around for couple of years at max and then start shifting jobs. By the end of 6th year, he or she would be in their 4th or 5th job and then because of the pressures from various jobs would be looking at settling down. This would also add couple of loans in terms of a house or a car or things as such. Many in these people joined the software bandwagon as there were not much options available in the GVT sector and a Software job was the easiest to get.

Unlike foreign countries, not much of mentoring happens with in companies. There is no proper definition of Technology stream defined in most companies and also there is lot of peer pressure to become a 'Manager' and become people managers with no proper skill for the same.

One forgets to reskill oneself in the process and soon finds themselves obsolete. The so called 12 or 14+ years experienced people would be cribbing about their managers/senior management in a similar way as the young blood cribbing about their managers.

With promotions happening in every 2 or 3 years, companies would find themselves having a top heavy pyramid, natural that soon the people in that position becomes white elephants. There would also be a set of people who would have got enough company stocks through the ESOPS and are ultra rich because of the valuation of the same and intern do not care much about the day to day work.

Among them there would be a set of people who would be the sole bread winner for the family, who would be neck deep in debt (say a house loan or two) and would have taken these loans with an eye on the hike in salary and bonuses. They would find it difficult to find alternate jobs - as most of the companies would also have enough and more people in this bracket.

Reskilling oneself is more important, this would be an eye opener for many.

Off topic, with the latest revisions in salary structure, GVT jobs are heavily paid and more lucrative. With limited performance reviews, it would be an option with low risk and high returns.
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Old 2nd January 2015, 16:40   #203
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Couldn't agree more on these two points.

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Reskilling oneself is more important, this would be an eye opener for many.
Reskilling at any point in your career is a must. One must be ready to learn anything at any point of time.

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Off topic, with the latest revisions in salary structure, GVT jobs are heavily paid and more lucrative. With limited performance reviews, it would be an option with low risk and high returns.
Having seen some of govt. job holder friends and their lavish lifestyles, I am ashamed to say I work in once shining IT sector.
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Old 4th January 2015, 20:26   #204
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Cyrus, not commenting on your post.
But you just agreed to everything I wrote and said the same things I were saying. Was there a counter argument?
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Old 5th January 2015, 17:57   #205
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Having seen some of govt. job holder friends and their lavish lifestyles, I am ashamed to say I work in once shining IT sector.
Even today a pay package in government job is way less than in Private sector. An honest government job person will have lesser lifestyle then a person with private job irrespective of the sector. A person with 20 years of experience in a government job doesn't earn more than 12Lacs (Inclusive of perks ) while a person with half the experience will earn the same amount in private sector jobs.

IT sector still pays higher than most other sectors.
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Old 8th January 2015, 18:23   #206
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A nice article here on the subject of how IT industry is at it's next inflexion point and what it means to middle managers :-)

http://capitalmind.in/2015/01/the-in...industry-long/
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Old 8th January 2015, 19:07   #207
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A nice article here on the subject of how IT industry is at it's next inflexion point and what it means to middle managers :-)

http://capitalmind.in/2015/01/the-in...industry-long/
A very detailed sum up, but I strongly believe that it applies to everybody and not only to middle managers. Those who fail to evolve will eventually cease to exist. Unfortunately most of those middle managers in the Indian IT services (at least some of the ones that I know) end up doing people management. At times where automation is becoming more and more popular and efficient, it is quite obvious that these functions become redundant.
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Old 8th January 2015, 21:09   #208
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Even today a pay package in government job is way less than in Private sector. An honest government job person will have lesser lifestyle then a person with private job irrespective of the sector. A person with 20 years of experience in a government job doesn't earn more than 12Lacs (Inclusive of perks ) while a person with half the experience will earn the same amount in private sector jobs.
Sorry, I don't think you've got your facts right. I worked in the HR department of SAIL and Vizag Steel for 21 years after joinning it as a Management Trainee. Though I've left a decade ago, my brother-in-law still works at Rourkela. I calculated his CTC in my recent trip.I was surprised to see that it was around 21 lakhs!! He is now in the same position as i was when I left: Assistant General Manager. When I left, my CTC in 2001 was a meagre 6.5 lakhs per annum.

The pay revision has really done wonders to pay scales in the Central Government.

A Management Trainee who joins SAIL today gets around 8 lacs CTC--far higher than the salary offered in most IT companies, unless one is from IIT or IIM.

This apart, they have their own Superannuation scheme, which is supposedly far better than the EPS that we are covered by. And there are other perks like subsidized quarters, schooling, free hospital treatment, etc.

The only big negatives are 6-day work, hierarchical structure with 'bossism', bureaucratic culture and labour problems.

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Old 9th January 2015, 13:23   #209
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A nice article here on the subject of how IT industry is at it's next inflexion point and what it means to middle managers :-)

http://capitalmind.in/2015/01/the-in...industry-long/
Thanks Sultan for the mention!

Please feel free to comment - either on the link or here, would love to hear more thoughts.
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Old 9th January 2015, 15:21   #210
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Please feel free to comment - either on the link or here, would love to hear more thoughts.
Excellent summary of the current situation. Frankly, anybody who has spent a few years in the industry should have instinctively known this was bound to happen. Therefore, I am very surprised at the shock and awe towards TCS action. Well, somebody moved the cheese...

For years I have been advising fresh graduates and parents when possible to consider small companies instead of large companies. But they generally thought my advice was very biased due to the fact that I run a small company.

Here is a link to the earlier discussion on this topic: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post3212838 (IT Industry and Employability of Technical Graduates)

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