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Old 22nd April 2008, 13:16   #31
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Thats a good practice and should be completed before the person joins.

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Post 2006, they have a proper background check methodology before anyone joins them. I joined Satyam in Dec06 and I had to send the background informations/certificates before I got my offer letter.
Please feel free to share your information here.

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How come no mention of Sasken in the list? they didnt fire anyone even in 2001 slowdown (reduced their salary by 20% and then heavy hiked when things came back to normal in 2003)

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Old 22nd April 2008, 13:39   #32
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Can you recall when the HR was efficient?

During hiring spree, they turned blind eye to these fake stuff. When the going got tough, suddenly they found about these fake stuff and found a reason to fire them.
the recruitment teams are under a lot of pressure to fill up the 8-10K positions that they need to fill up. So first they hire the person based on what meets the eye- the resume, interviews ad technical know how. Then they do the "BACKGROUND" check. this is carried out by an indipendent body- that verifies what has been writen by the candidate.

You cant turn a blind eye to fake stuff- becase there is NO WAY on earth that you can verify what has been writen.
Example- Mr.X finished his college in 2000, from 2000- 2002 he was sitting at home. and 2002 he got a job with a company A. he worked there till 2007 - thats a good 5 years. Now he watns to apply for a project mangers position so he adds the 2 years he was sitting at home as experience in the same compny.

If the HR person glances at the resume- he./ she sees - graduated in 2000, wored frmo 2000-2007 - so that 7 years - making the person "technically" elligible for the next grade and position. now on background checking- the verification company will find out that it is incorrect and that the employee has worked there only from 2002-2007. So what do u do. keep the person - I dont think so.

you need to fire his *** and put a blot on it - because he is dishonest and trying to decieve you.

also -i dont think this thread is authentic - the email is just what has been doing the rounds. As they say - compnies are here to make money- that would mean by cutting their losses and letting people go, if not- they would be the UN.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 13:46   #33
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
I wonder why the HR accepted the fake stuff in the first place? First they should have been fired for dereliction of duty.
Can you recall when the HR was efficient?
Daibloo, it is easy to comment but not so easy to implement. This is not so easy. For bigger companies it is very cost intensive as well as they generally outsource this job to some professional HR organization.

Policies / Processes are getting better in the last 2-3 yrs and things are changing.

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Old 22nd April 2008, 14:03   #34
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I liked the post by Samurai.. it really made sense..

Just adding to that,

the problem starts when you think you are the top performer but the company doesnt...but this is where the fun starts..

there is always another company who thinks you are wonderful and willing to pay you 2x, but in that company a person like you quit because he thought he deserved more.

This cycle went on repeating and has made a mess. this coupled with new MNC entering india, we are seeing attrition.

But i guess 2008 is different, and now everyone is talking about recession, i wonder if its recession, its either saturation or the companies which were happy to pay you 2x are now finding alternatives in other countries so they no longer want to offer you.

I too work for a MNC, and currently exploring various options but one question that i am really not able to answer is, where IT is heading to
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Old 22nd April 2008, 14:24   #35
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I guess that was because of my inexperience, it was my first and I only had one year experience.
Very honest comment! Firing a person for incompetency definitely means there is a (many) flaw in the recruiting process to begin with.

On a general note, many IT firms tend to get over-optimistic about their future resource requirements, during a high growth phase. We shall soon see the negative impact of the same as we are into the recession.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 14:36   #36
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Why post in a meaningless thread?
Because the info. provided dint have a source and I posted before technocrat put the source. Well do I need to answer that question of yours ? Nopes,not really !!

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I dunno what ground it holds coz I see some of those top firing companies in the big list for hiring and vice -versa.
Once again take time and read my post else glue that ranting trap for good. I don't see any sense in the banter you do.

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Has anybody been fired for non-performance in India? Most likely the reasons got nothing to do with performance.
Well you must be working in some NGO or must be a public servant. I work in one of those Secure companies in the list and have seen people fired for not being productive.

Last edited by rjstyles69 : 22nd April 2008 at 14:38.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 14:41   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
I wonder why the HR accepted the fake stuff in the first place? First they should have been fired for dereliction of duty.
Can you recall when the HR was efficient?


During hiring spree, they turned blind eye to these fake stuff. When the going got tough, suddenly they found about these fake stuff and found a reason to fire them.
Gosh, those are very caustic remarks on the HR profession. I've had the fortune (or misfortune) of spending long, long years in that profession, but in public sector. Today's hotcake does not become tomorrow's moron in a PSU, like it sometimes happens in IT industry.
But I must admit that it is the most thankless profession. No matter what you do, people will still be unhappy with HR. So a scenario where people are happy with HR is utopian concept.
I'm fortunate for moving into ERP field, where I discovered a new feeling called job satisfaction.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 14:43   #38
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For all of you who are propounding the need for a background check prior to joining.

These are a couple of realities.
1. As others have commented, background checks take time to implement. Specially so for large organisations. Since this process is outsourced to HR consulting firms, like say Hewitt.

Would you, when seeking a job, wait for 1-2 months to get a confirmation from your potential employer?

2. I have personally faced queries on my reportees, who had left the organisation. That is, a part of background check process of the company the individual has gone and joined, after he has joined.

Now, to ensure a check prior to joining, would it be fine, if your potential employer calls up your current Manager, to enquire about your credentials? "Sir, an employee of your organisation has applied for another organisation, which would like to cross-check a few points. We will send you a document. Could you please fill it up and send it back to us?" - (so that we can hire your team member)

Since 'prior' background checks are being suggested, I am presuming you have a solution for the scenarios I have posted above. I do not. I'd really like to know a solution.

Oh. And I am not a HR professional.

Last edited by shuvc : 22nd April 2008 at 14:44.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 14:43   #39
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This list is nearly crap. I have worked for 3 of the companies listed and can vouch that none of them match the description here. And many of them look quite strange. Note that EDS and HP had fired people in large numbers even in India a few years back, forget about abroad. (HP had fired almost 25000 people globally including their CEO!). Comparatively, desi companies like Infy and Wipro have better job security and fire people only in exceptional cases like frauds, gross indiscipline and much rarely "perennial non-performance". In case of the last category, they would be "eased out" or asked to quit rather than outright fire. Of course they are new and yet to face a real slowdown.

There is another problem in the topic. The assumption that people join IT industry for job security is not correct. I have been working in this industry for nearly 15 years. Job security is still not one of my top 3 criteria, even though it may have climbed a few positions. And I don't think its the case with many others in IT either.

Risk and reward goes together. If one wants a safe and secure job, choose some govt position and "retire with job" for the rest of his life. But then, dont complain about poor wages, bad working conditions, lack of growth opportunities etc. Each of us has the right to choose what they want based on their risk appetite. No private company will give a "life-time assured job", be it in IT, Banking, Steel or Retail industry. If you can perform you can thrive. Economic reasons such as industry slowdown could have only a temporary impact and company policies have little to do with that.

Last edited by appuchan : 22nd April 2008 at 14:48.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 15:29   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post

Now, to ensure a check prior to joining, would it be fine, if your potential employer calls up your current Manager, to enquire about your credentials? "Sir, an employee of your organisation has applied for another organisation, which would like to cross-check a few points. We will send you a document. Could you please fill it up and send it back to us?" - (so that we can hire your team member)


Hi,

The background check has to have a logical way of functioning, i.e. some details such as PF number from the previous employment, Form 16 have to be provided by the candidate in question when he applies for an interview. HR never asks for this information. They just complete numbers.

I have personally seen the ref check system drawing up un expected results, in one particular case the candidate's reference was being checked by a prospective employer, now the prospective employer asked the candidate's existing boss as to how was he, obviously the existing boss gave a negative feedback as there would be no one to replace the person in a short while. These are senior management positions being talked about.

Another funny situation is an employee leaves the unit he is working in, goes to HR and asks for other open positions and gets a job !!!!!!!!!!

Cheers
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Old 22nd April 2008, 15:59   #41
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The background check has to have a logical way of functioning, i.e. some details such as PF number from the previous employment, Form 16 have to be provided by the candidate in question when he applies for an interview. HR never asks for this information. They just complete numbers.
Let's consider 2 common scenarios.

PF number.
This is my understanding. I may be wrong.
AFAIK, some companies like Infy have their own PF trust. So you need to close it on leaving. Others have PF accounts with the government. If it's the latter, you could continue with that number across a number of companies. It need not be tied to the company. And then there are lots of cases where junior candidates come from small companies, which pay stipends. No PF numbers there.

Form 16
Where would one get it if you join a company in April and leave it in Dec the same year?

IMO we should give some credit to the HR processes (at least of large organisations). They live with these problems and obviously put in a lot more effort to arrive at optimal solutions. Solutions which may seem to have flaws from individual perspectives. But then, an employee will seek a solution based on parameters visible to him/her - which may not be the complete set of parameters the HR team has to work with.

I'm not defending HR professionals or policies. All I'm saying is, when criticizing a policy, we should also try and think through the potential problems and provide a feasible alternative.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 16:01   #42
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Q1 A related question on Form 16. Why is it required at all by the new organization?

Q2 Consider a hypothetical situation. At the time of interview, the candidate verbally mentions his present CTC as 5LPA. He demands 7LPA (40% increase) from the company. The company agrees and sends him the offer letter mentioning 7LPA per annum.
Now, at the actual time of joining, employee furnishes Form 16 and salary slips of previous org, which show his salary to be only 4LPA. That is, he had lied to the HR at the time of interview about his present salary. The hike now becomes over 70%.
Now my question is, is the new company in a position to reject his employment, since A. He had verbally given wrong information, B. 70% increase is more than the threshold increase (say 60%) in the company HR policies.

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Old 22nd April 2008, 16:13   #43
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Could YOu elaborate?

Do you mean that when you join a new organization why do they need your Form 16?

Well so far I havent come across any company who asks for a Form 16.

Please correct me if I misunderstood your question
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Old 22nd April 2008, 16:14   #44
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@DCEite

As I know this is required for TDS purposes, to ascertain whether the old company has done TDS on his salary paid to the employee during the period of the year he was employed there

Best regards
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Old 22nd April 2008, 16:17   #45
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Hi shuv,

Form 16 is necessary in all cases, even if a person who has received one salary by law you have to provide the person a Form 16. (in cases of tax being deducted by employers and paid into Govt account). I will assume here that IT salaries are taxable as they are not your average salaries in other professions.

PF - Infy is a rare case which maintains its own PF, however by law one has to deduct PF & deposit the same into the government run PF account (not very clear on how Infy can manage, yes the Infy managed thingy can be a gratuity fund, not necessarily a PF fund),

If PF number is not available or stipend is paid, in that case TDS has to be deducted (exceptional cases are very small > 9 employee units) and the TDS certificate has to be provided to the candidate whose TDS has been deducted. This once again is a legal requirement.

There are ways and means, agree HR is under pressure, IT is relatively easier than a BPO who are recruiting 450-600 people every month per unit/locatoin and mind you they have only 25--24 days in a month.

Anyways who created the mess which Indian IT/ITES HR is ? Another debatable question.

Cheers

M M M
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