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Old 23rd April 2008, 02:38   #76
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Originally Posted by Technocrat View Post
No salary related document ever & frankly why would they, they are offereing me what I am worth(actually less that what I am worth, if only I had negotiated better )
Yeah, me too. And as Techno said why would they? If I have cleared their technical interview/test, found suitable for the position, let them offer what they think I am worth. They don't need to know how much I was earning or were I earning something at all.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 02:49   #77
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Oops Redfire & Techno - you guys better not apply in HRMan's company, cos he only decides your pay based on your previous company's salary slip. Oh and dont forget, if you do submit your salary slip, and are lucky enough to be offered a job, ask for a hike of 25-30%. Under no circumstances should you settle for 10% cos it will arouse suspicion. So what if the job is more interesting or its closer to home or it allows you a more flexible schedule. All that does'nt matter one bit eh.

Who gives a damn if you cleared their technical interview/test and were found suitable for the position. One more thing, please go only through a consultant. The sun is shining, so let them make hay.

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Originally Posted by redfire View Post
Yeah, me too. And as Techno said why would they? If I have cleared their technical interview/test, found suitable for the position, let them offer what they think I am worth. They don't need to know how much I was earning or were I earning something at all.

Last edited by Lalvaz : 23rd April 2008 at 02:52.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 11:07   #78
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Just like when a groom refuses dowry, an aunt from bride's party suspects something wrong with the groom.
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In fact, if the candidate willingly accepts a 10% hike, something is wrong.
Nothing personal here. HR people are great off-office. But once when they don the HR hat, they put on the orthodox robes also.
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IMO, HR is till in Socialist mindset. Hope somebody brings in some reforms.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 11:17   #79
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
Just like when a groom refuses dowry, an aunt from bride's party suspects something wrong with the groom.
The problem, then, is more with the Bride side, than the groom. The groom should rather stay away from such bride's familiy.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 11:32   #80
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quoting in general after reading most of the posts in this thread.

We will always have different opinions about how the industry operates, how it should and how it shouldnt. Each one will come with with their own justified version of the same (something similar to politics).

The different opinions will be mainly from employers, employees, HRs and critics.

Employer will try his/her best to justify his stand as at the end of the day his/her aim is generate profit and strive for long term growth.

Employer will always think about the returns he gets in lieu for the kind (quality, quantity) of services he provides to the company and the kind of opportunities he gets in return.

HR usually have a fixed set of parameters to work on like budget, demand and supply of skilled labor, urgency and quantity of skilled labor required. Based on these they do the recruitments and decide compensations and try to retain resigning employees.

Critics are all those who read all such stuff on net, blogs, friend and business circles and develop a opinion based on similar arguments, discussions and debates.

End of the day, each one is right in their way and none can step into the other's shoe and think unless and until they actually decide to shift their career track.

Received in a mail forward which quoted Narayan Murthy stating something similar to:
"Love you job, not your company. You never know when the company stops loving you"
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Old 23rd April 2008, 11:40   #81
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Was interesting to read through this thread!

No one questioned Infy's stupid HR policy that a candidate should have 60% or above from Class 10th onwards!
What if I was sick during my Class 12th exams & couldn't do well? Unfortunatly I score less than 60%.
That means I can never work for Infy in my life?
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Old 23rd April 2008, 12:20   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Was interesting to read through this thread!

No one questioned Infy's stupid HR policy that a candidate should have 60% or above from Class 10th onwards!
What if I was sick during my Class 12th exams & couldn't do well? Unfortunatly I score less than 60%.
That means I can never work for Infy in my life?
Well. Infy can afford to do it due to their brand name. They know they'll get a big enough pool to choose from, even with that criteria. IIRC, it used to be 70% 7-8 yrs back. The fact that they had to relax it a bit, indicates the >70% pool isn't big enough for their numbers.

Also what % of < 60% students would have a genuine reason like health etc.? 10 out of 100? Imagine the effort to filter out those 10. I'd say it's quite understandable if an organization does not create policies that try to factor in exception cases.


@Lalvaz - organisations obviously have different ways or running and managing potential risks (risk priorities vary too).

Some orgs give significant variable pay - one of the reasons being 'we keep the flexibility of reducing payout vis-a-vis firing'.

Other orgs decide to outsource a lot of work. Activities that are not core to the business. The operational activities in the hiring process is one of them.

# Say an org is hiring 500 people a month now. Business is good. Hence. They have a big team doing everything inhouse. Now say there's a slump for 6 months. Hiring freeze. What do these guys do? Hiring is not the core business of the org. Do they fire them? Yes, some companies might. Other prefer not to go down that route, hence outsource.

# Consider a person who is doing CV sorting in a large software org. If everything is in-house, you need a large team to do this. What career growth path can a software firm give to such an employee? He/she would be much better off in a firm focussed around consulting in different functions of HR.

Just some thoughts from my side. IMO we should not generalize the policies of some companies. Each company has it's own priorities and business goals.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 12:39   #83
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I some comments ont he previous posts :

- The Private PF is nothing but a Private fund managed by the company which needs prior approval from the PF commissioner and has to follow the same rules.

- This can be transferred from the private to Govt/ Private fund of another company, if one moves.

- Form 16 is not compulsary to submit as I might not be working before or as a businessman. But companies do ask for payslips.

- I personally do not get this idea of x% of increase over the previous job. How does my future pay relate to the past pay in %age. I might have taken up very high responsibilies/ different job and my package has to match that profile, even if its more than x%.

- Most company work backwards i.e. define the package and R&R and then try to find a guy to fit into it +/- few. Its not a capability based compensation.

- Taking only Engg grads have become the thing of the past in IT, although some companies still follow it but if you look at a particular companies adv, you will find all kinds of Engg grads work in IT projects ( chemical, Civil and mechanical) and are recruited and trained on the job. Although I fail to understand why, unless they have prior IT related training/ work exp.

- The world is not a fair place to live.

Last edited by dadu : 23rd April 2008 at 12:44.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 12:50   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
No one questioned Infy's stupid HR policy that a candidate should have 60% or above from Class 10th onwards!
Hmm, I don't even have the marks card for my 11th grade, never seen it, never had it.

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Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
That means I can never work for Infy in my life?
Lucky you.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 13:39   #85
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"Under-Paid Worker and Ill-Informed Wife are Risk"
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Old 23rd April 2008, 13:57   #86
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IMHO, the Top 5 IT companies in India (excluding MNC off shoots) are near mirror images of each other. Now, They have similar policies all over. They copy each other as well. This is mainly because key people move across these organisations and bring their own baggage with them. Over time, they have all become clones of each other. .. So there is no point discussing which one fires and which one doesnt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Hmm, I don't even have the marks card for my 11th grade, never seen it, never had it.
In 11th, Think I scored like 50% and barely passed in one subject. Nobody bothers about 11th. 11th used to be the time to have fun in college .not anymore though!
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Old 23rd April 2008, 15:47   #87
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Very valid points raised shuvc. Did'nt mean to generalize, but ended up doing just that. My mistake.

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Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Well. Infy can afford to do it due to their brand name. They know they'll get a big enough pool to choose from, even with that criteria. IIRC, it used to be 70% 7-8 yrs back. The fact that they had to relax it a bit, indicates the >70% pool isn't big enough for their numbers.

Also what % of < 60% students would have a genuine reason like health etc.? 10 out of 100? Imagine the effort to filter out those 10. I'd say it's quite understandable if an organization does not create policies that try to factor in exception cases.


@Lalvaz - organisations obviously have different ways or running and managing potential risks (risk priorities vary too).

Some orgs give significant variable pay - one of the reasons being 'we keep the flexibility of reducing payout vis-a-vis firing'.

Other orgs decide to outsource a lot of work. Activities that are not core to the business. The operational activities in the hiring process is one of them.

# Say an org is hiring 500 people a month now. Business is good. Hence. They have a big team doing everything inhouse. Now say there's a slump for 6 months. Hiring freeze. What do these guys do? Hiring is not the core business of the org. Do they fire them? Yes, some companies might. Other prefer not to go down that route, hence outsource.

# Consider a person who is doing CV sorting in a large software org. If everything is in-house, you need a large team to do this. What career growth path can a software firm give to such an employee? He/she would be much better off in a firm focussed around consulting in different functions of HR.

Just some thoughts from my side. IMO we should not generalize the policies of some companies. Each company has it's own priorities and business goals.
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Old 23rd April 2008, 15:58   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
That means I can never work for Infy in my life?
Quote:
Originally Posted by shuvc View Post
Well. Infy can afford to do it due to their brand name. They know they'll get a big enough pool to choose from, even with that criteria.
Why does Infy have bigger brand name than TCS although TCS earns more and is much bigger than Infy?


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Lucky you.

Heard that they are very strict (as seems Wipro) with respect to clocking a certain number of hours inside the building everyday.
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Old 5th May 2008, 14:01   #89
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1) IBM --- Right now this is the most firing company for IT professionals. In the last 6 months, this company has fired nearly 20% of their employees because of BG check and performance issues. This is the most insecure company from an IT professional's point of view. They
don't have any strategic plans at HR policies regarding employee security. No appraisals (maximum 10%).

IBM has close to 70000 employees and firing 20% would mean 12-14k people.
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Old 5th May 2008, 21:06   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Was interesting to read through this thread!

No one questioned Infy's stupid HR policy that a candidate should have 60% or above from Class 10th onwards!
What if I was sick during my Class 12th exams & couldn't do well? Unfortunatly I score less than 60%.
That means I can never work for Infy in my life?
I am aware of exceptions (geeks with merely passing marks in academics), but that was when I joined, 8 yrs back.

But if you are so disturbed about not being able to work for infy (or for any company for that matter), you need counseling first, job later
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