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View Poll Results: Should the BRT corridor in New Delhi be scrapped
Yes. The things are not likely to improve much. 30 62.50%
No. Give it some time to improve. 18 37.50%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 1st May 2008, 10:47   #46
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Here is a picture of a small portion of the stretch to give people an idea of what we're talking about:

Attachment 12106

Just see how the normal traffic is bottle-necked & how the bus lanes are not being utilised.
Did you saw a positive point in the picture i.e. no road accidents due to Blue lines and no chaos due to blue lines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whatcanthisbe View Post
I went through the BRT corridor a couple of time in the past 2 days the reasons / ways it can work is if the traffic lights are reconfigured the motorcyclists and scooters are forced on to the cycle path and the 3wheelers are banned from the car lanes thes are the 3/ 4 things that are creating the biggest havoc on the corridor more over when travelling you didnt have to worry abt a blueline cutting in or haphazardly just stopping in the middle but the auto's and the 2 wheelers have seemed to have developed bigger cohones with the buses gone to their own lanes
Exactly my point, the chaos created by Buses will be negligent i.e. low death tole due to rashly driven blue lines. But, yes this plan needs to be implemented forcefully and sacredly.

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Heck, I want it all over Delhi. Having seen similar schemes work wonderfully all over Germany, I personally believe its a fantastic idea but ONLY once the network becomes vast. With rapid/quality transit, I want maximum personal vehicles off the road.
This is what all delhite want today, i'll never ever carry my personal veichle from my place i.e. north delhi to my office i.e. south delhi, if i have to commute to-fro only. I would rather prefer a well-managed public transport like Metro or BRT.

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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
PS: lived for 3 months in germany in a very similar system albeit smaller (10km a side, but more travel around) and I think instead of knee jerking, question is really about how to make things work and how to reduce private travel. Not just number of buses, but trained drivers, and safety. lots of issues. Not too palatable ofc in its form.
PPS: At ambedkar nagar itself, the 30sec junction - we spent some 40 min, a week back. Now its back to 2-4min.
Things are improving and will improve once the system is implemented in proper manner and support from literate people like us only.

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Originally Posted by suman View Post
I'm not sure why there's a lot of hypothetical discussions about the "concept" whereas the thread was started with the "reality" in mind. Lol
I would like to correct you over here, thread was started on a "pre-matured reality". BRT is still under "Test Phase".

People also condemned Metro project when it was about to start due to traffic chaos, unfair land picking for stations and pillars, problem caused while construction. But what happened, after 3-4 year(not sure when exactly metro was launched) it is been appreciated, running successfully and being stretched to even NCRs. BRT is relatively new system and need sacred traffic support of people traveling over it.
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Old 1st May 2008, 11:28   #47
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Gangsta,

That is just level 1 thinking. Question is how to put decongestion measures in place - your points are obvious and practical - but that's just adding to the problem. Having suffered such idiocy daily I agree - esp pile ups at sainik farms because the new drivers cant manage these big buses' and their turning radii.
Level 1 Thinking? do you think that place can be decongested by any means? Even proper traffic lights will be a pain for everything. How abt the smooth road with no traffic lights becomes full of lights and how abt 3 lane road becomes 2 lane road? Do you think road with heavy traffic becomes small and you expect the traffic to be smooth on small roads?

Many people says Experts made it keeping 100s of points in their mind. Practically its all messed up. Now these experts are looking forward to make the traffic smooth? They can't do it, its impossible man. You know how delhites don't care of lanes and they just change lanes frequently.

In other coutries people do lane driving, but in Delhi? My myself don't believe in lane driving because of the fact that few fools drive at 30-40 kmph speed on high speed lanes and i have to change lanes.

Come on mate We can't change this traffic system in delhi and they need to make plans according to the traffic style of the city.

Traffic cops were always against such projects because they know how traffic regulates.

In Cricket we have few bookish shots for batting, But you can't play with such bookish shots. You need to be a practical not a bookish one.
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Old 1st May 2008, 11:42   #48
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Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
Did you saw a positive point in the picture i.e. no road accidents due to Blue lines and no chaos due to blue lines.
Funny you should mention that when all of us know that there have already been multiple deaths on this corridor due to shabby practices like material lying around everywhere & unmarked dividers. Can someone remind us again how many bikers have already been killed?

And I'm quite willing to bet a 100rs. that sooner rather than later one of these Blueline drivers in his constant hurry is going to either sideswipe an oncoming bus or ram it head-on. Just wait & watch, we have some of the finest Bus drivers around here!

And going by your seperate lane for Blue Line buses to avoid accidents logic, the worst affected on our roads are two-wheelers, right? Why not make seperate lanes for them too so that no one hits them or runs them over & then make another lane for three-wheelers so that they can stop anywhere they like (Well they do it even now but then it'll be legal!) and then whatever is left of the roads can be used by the cars!

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Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
People also condemned Metro project when it was about to start due to traffic chaos, unfair land picking for stations and pillars, problem caused while construction. But what happened, after 3-4 year(not sure when exactly metro was launched) it is been appreciated, running successfully and being stretched to even NCRs. BRT is relatively new system and need sacred traffic support of people traveling over it.
People criticised Metro because it was constructed in congested areas and traffic was hampered under construction. But once it became operational not only did they bring the roads back to their original if not better than original state but traffic also reduced since the Metro was something that was designed to be world-class & designed with the correct parameters & planning in mind. It wasn't designed by a bunch of arm-chair experts in connivance with private contractors & corrupt Govt. officials.

Have you seen even one protest against the Metro once it became operational even in areas like Old Delhi where people suspected it'll weaken their old building's foundations?? I have not. Apart from auto-wallah's no one has anything negative to say about them. And I'm proud to say that Delhi or India has a public transport system that's absolutely world-class. Today when I have to go to Old Delhi/Rithala areas what do I do? Park my car at CP/ND railway station & take the Metro. Why? because it's convenient, comfortable & cheap. No one's forcing me to take the Metro, I do it out of my own free will because I like it & I realise it makes more sense to travel this way. And so do millions of other people who're using the Metro day in & day out. Can you say the same for the BRT? I don't think so. I don't think comparing the Metro (which is a world-class project completed before time on all sectors & under budget) with the BRT is a fair comparison. I personally think it's an insult to th great people who designed & executed the Metro project.

And this BRT already has the hall markings of a typical Indian Govt. project. Not only is it running behind schedule but already the stretch that was supposed to have cost 100-odd crores has costed the Govt. 213 crores!! You see where this si going? It's the same sad story all over again.
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Old 1st May 2008, 11:56   #49
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Some recent news excerpts:

Quote:
NEW DELHI: The Delhi government has decided to give the chaotic BRT corridor more time even as the situation at 'ground zero’ showed little improvement with the current stretch under development still taking 40-45 minutes to traverse. But the city government has put on hold other BRT corridors it has been planning.

The meeting saw a concerned chief minister Sheila Dik**** taking several agencies to task. She pointedly told one of the BRT’s 'conceptual’ authors, IIT Delhi don Geetam Tiwari that she wanted solutions to the problems that had surfaced and these must convince the public. A similar message was delivered to other stake holders.

The government has been forced onto the defensive by the outpouring of public opposition to the corridor and its concerns were reflected at the meeting. The CM has made it evident that the concept is hardly sacrosanct and will be adapted to real-time needs.

There will be no further work on the BRT corridor between Moolchand and Delhi Gate till problems on the 5.8 km stretch between Ambedkar Nagar and Moolchand are resolved. Two parallel roads will be constructed at Saket near Press Enclave and two foot over bridges will also come up.
Quote:
NEW DELHI: A day before the Delhi government's review meeting on Saturday to take stock of the BRT chaos, chief minister Sheila Dik**** undertook an inspection of the corridor which revealed glitches that remain even six days after the trial run started last Sunday.

Though it did not require the CM's personal tour to confirm that the mess was unresolved - pictures of massive tailbacks and accounts of commuters would have been enough - the project managers might be given some more time. This is despite evidence that improvements on the corridor can only be marginal, as the concept itself is seen to be deeply flawed.

Among the problems that the CM herself encountered was that the duration of the green light at traffic intersections along the stretch was too short, handcarts and other slow moving vehicles were obstructing traffic in the general vehicles lane, too many bollards in some parts and illegal parking of buses on the Ambedkar Nagar side which takes up close to 20% of the road space.

According to sources, Dik****'s visit was apparently a ''secret'' and there was no enforcement of a green channel as is the norm. She did not even use her official vehicle and instead travelled in a Swift, giving the usual carcade a miss. Said an official: ''The visit took 23 minutes in all.'' It would seem that even though the essential problems with the corridor remain, the CM is not likely to scrap it any time soon.

The chief minister also told officials that express measures needed to be taken to ensure that the breakdown of one vehicle did not bring the entire corridor to a standstill. Two cranes have already been stationed near the corridor. Yet, issues remain over how these cranes will enter an already over-crowded zone.
Quote:
Here's yet another aspect of the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) fiasco and a probable reason for it turning out to be that. The state government in the execution and planning of the Rs 100-odd crore project - the total cost when the entire stretch between Ambedkarnagar and Delhi Gate is completed will come to about Rs 213 crore - had not involved any of its own engineers and had instead banked completely on "external" experts for engineering back-up. The project thus had been executed without keeping the ground realities in mind - something that senior officials including the chief secretary had pointed out time and again.

The stakeholders in the projects include Indian Institute of Technology (IIT-Delhi), RITES, Delhi Integrated Multimodal Transport System (DIMTS) and the state transport department - which means that all state government officials involved in the project are entirely non-technical. PWD, the sole government agency equipped to provide technical knowhow in the matter, was never involved in the project - a fact which senior officials now say was a "big mistake" and may have been responsible for the project backfiring so badly.

"Neither transport department officials, nor those of DIMTS have any knowledge of road engineering and this was a PWD road that they were working on. Had this been on a MCD road, there was no way such a thing could have happened without involving them. It is not about who owns the road - it is about who knows the road best," said a PWD official.

Even as BRT criticism mounts and transport department officials talk about how it all went wrong because the experts involved were unaware of the ground realities and because of their "pedigree", their words were taken as gospel truth. More so because there was nobody on the state government side who could evaluate the plans technically.

Says a senior official: "Be it with RITES or with the IIT experts, the government banked so heavily on them that they did not even leave a technical back-up of its own for objective assessment of whatever was being proposed. With the result that even with the best intentions, there was no way for them to know if the textbook solutions that were being proposed would work in the Delhi set-up."

Officials, including those in the chief minister's office, have now started blaming the "cut and paste" consultants for the BRT disaster, choosing to gloss over the fact that at the beginning of it all the same experts had been the poster persons for the project.

Asked about the reason, a senior official said: "We had appointed the people who at that point were the best suited for the job and they had shown us a list of 80-odd countries where BRT has succeeded. If they misguided us what can we do?" Asked about the need for appointing consultants, he said: "They give projects and international perspective because they see how things are done around the world."
Quote:
NEW DELHI: With a stubborn government going ahead with the Bus Rapid Transport system, disregarding growing unrest against the project, a parliamentary panel has stepped in to put tough questions to patrons of the controversial plan.

"The system of dividing the road in three parts isn't going to solve the problem," CPM’s Sitaram Yechury, chairman of the parliamentary standing committee on surface transport, said when the project was discussed by the committee recently.

This acquires significance because the BRT-obsessed planners cannot shrug off the Marxist MP's comment as elitist and pro-rich, their standard refrain in response to calls for a fresh scrutiny of the project which has wreaked havoc on busy south Delhi arteries.

Yechury also refused to buy the line of BRT managers and the Delhi government that the huge inconvenience to people because of traffic disruptions was the price the city had to pay for a better public transport system.

The BRT advocates have, invoking the class warfare narrative of the 60s, made light of the problems facing users of private vehicles on the BRT corridor, saying these could, in fact, help decongest city roads by prodding people to switch to public transport.

Yechury was not impressed and said that the planners had got their sequence all wrong. "We also talked of disincentives to car users but for that, a proper public transport system should be in place," the Rajya Sabha member said at the meeting of the committee.

Yechury stressed that he was not opposed to the concept of BRT, but made it plain that he did not approve of the way it was being rushed. "We said that though the concept of BRT is correct, there are flaws in the way in which it is being done in Delhi," he said.

Yechury and other members, in fact, departed from the agenda — proposed amendments to the Motor Vehicles Act — to deliberate upon the faulty and insensitive execution of BRT in the capital.

The panel will subject the project to an intense scrutiny at the next meeting of the parliamentary committee on April 11.

The committee stepped into the debate when the authorities, after indicating that they would start work on other proposed BRT corridors only after seeing the working of the one under trial — from Ambedkar Nagar to Delhi Gate — shifted gears to announce that they would start the other projects soon.

The central government also seems enamoured of the BRT scheme, and has, in its 11th Five-Year Plan, announced similar traffic restructuring plans in half a dozen other cities.
Even the Communists agree! Hallelujah!!

And here come the conflict of intrest theories:
Quote:
NEW DELHI: As questions are being raised vigorously by citizens' groups, traffic experts and MPs across party lines over the controversial BRT corridor, what seems to have slipped notice is that the patrons of the IIT-Delhi department behind the concept include bus manufacturing majors Volvo and Tatas.

The BRT project, which has turned the lives of thousands of south Delhi commuters into a nightmare of nerve-wracking jams, pedestrian chaos, and cycle and two-wheeler tailbacks, is essentially meant to segregate traffic in a manner that provides a dedicated corridor to buses. The road space for non-bus motorized traffic has been reduced by about half.

What makes the decision of the city government to appoint Dinesh Mohan and Geetam Tiwari from IIT-D's Transport Research and Injury Prevention Programme as independent experts for the project curious is that the department's patrons include Volvo Education Research Foundations (VERF) and Ford Motor Company. The experts deny any conflict of interests.
Quote:
NEW DELHI: The allocation for transport has been increased by nearly Rs 900 crore in this year's budget. But the Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) system which had featured prominently in last year's budget speech — albeit with a deadline of February 2008 which it has failed to meet — was conspicuous by its absence this year with finance department officials maintaining that a mere Rs 120 crore had been allocated for BRT, LRT (light rail transit) and monorail put together. The pilot BRT corridor between Ambedkar Nagar and Delhi Gate will cost around Rs 213 crore.
So is it just me or does this project stink of vested interest & planning not being based on the ground realities??
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Old 1st May 2008, 11:59   #50
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Have you noted the new 'politically' motivated line that the govt is now using?
We want to keep 80% people happy (the bus users) and cannot afford to succumb to the demands of the 20% who are private car/taxi/motorbike/autoricks/bicycle users!!
The death and accident toll so far has found no more than a passing mention. Without doubt, a few more 'sacrifices' are required!
And this is a 'corridor' of total length 5.8 kms yet! Is this going to significantly make a dent on Delhi's traffic woes?

In actual fact, what has happened over the last few days is that people are avoiding that route altogether. Thereby, the congestion on it has also reduced. This is, very conveniently, being interpreted as an 'improvement'!! And to give a fillip to this improvement, a few more crores of public money has been sanctioned to build foot over-bridges for pedestrians, bring in air-conditioned buses and a better traffic signaling system.

It is a wonderful and classic get-rich-quick game in progress.
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Old 1st May 2008, 12:05   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Have you noted the new 'politically' motivated line that the govt is now using?
We want to keep 80% people happy (the bus users) and cannot afford to succumb to the demands of the 20% who are private car/taxi/motorbike/autoricks/bicycle users!!
The death and accident toll so far has found no more than a passing mention. Without doubt, a few more 'sacrifices' are required!
And this is a 'corridor' of total length 5.8 kms yet! Is this going to significantly make a dent on Delhi's traffic woes?

In actual fact, what has happened over the last few days is that people are avoiding that route altogether. Thereby, the congestion on it has also reduced. This is, very conveniently, being interpreted as an 'improvement'!! And to give a fillip to this improvement, a few more crores of public money has been sanctioned to build foot over-bridges for pedestrians, bring in air-conditioned buses and a better traffic signaling system.

It is a wonderful and classic get-rich-quick game in progress.
haha good one and practical
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Old 1st May 2008, 12:13   #52
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
Level 1 Thinking? do you think that place can be decongested by any means? Even proper traffic lights will be a pain for everything. How abt the smooth road with no traffic lights becomes full of lights and how abt 3 lane road becomes 2 lane road? Do you think road with heavy traffic becomes small and you expect the traffic to be smooth on small roads?
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Originally Posted by Gangsta View Post
In Cricket we have few bookish shots for batting, But you can't play with such bookish shots. You need to be a practical not a bookish one.
There's no brownie points for saying what everyone knows anyways. The problems you mention are real and everyone knows. But that IS and remains level 1 because it doesnt attempt any creative solution to the problem. Like politicians suggesting short haul flights land at HAL - to hell with designing a holistic functioning airport system.

And the problem with BRT is just this. Presently it has little incentive for the modal shift to occur. My proposed solution is that they build it all over delhi, double the number of buses in delhi (what do I pay road tax and so much tax for) - and ONLY THEN operationalize it. I will happily trade in even my bike's 40 min commute for a comfortable 70-80 minute commute in public buses.

Delhiites havent still responded back with carpools. I am truly ashamed to see that. I see that stretch daily - STILL same nonsense - one person in car, or one sahab with driver. ALL BRT has done is preponed traffic troubles that we would've faced 3-4 years later,today. The sooner we realize that urban infrastructure is constrained - the better. And sheila madam isnt too wrong - with current cost of land, acquiring further lanes is impractical. These are just the teething pains of shifting people into mass transit. Metro was better since it ADDED extra capacity on top of existing roads and political/god knows what will made it go to mehrauli instead of ambedkar nagar. If not BRT, and people moving to BRT, I see little hope 3-4 years down the line. Ofc yes, they need proper safeguarding for pedestrians and foot over bridges etc - the current design is lacking in many ways. heck, they closed a much needed free left at ambedkar nagar itself. fumb people.

Problem is that we all want to buy bigger cars and magically expect the measly road tax to fund more lanes. When we are not willing to give up a bigger share of road resources and look at more optimal (for the greater good) solutions, then such messes will occur. That to my mind is the thought about level 2 solutions. But then, nothing personal against you - most of us would choose something similar.

Please take a good trip into downtown London. People pay 8 pounds just to enter (a day) into roads which can get congested and sometimes do.

Last edited by phamilyman : 1st May 2008 at 12:15.
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Old 1st May 2008, 12:28   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
Have you noted the new 'politically' motivated line that the govt is now using?
We want to keep 80% people happy (the bus users) and cannot afford to succumb to the demands of the 20% who are private car/taxi/motorbike/autoricks/bicycle users!!
Absolutely correct. I can even bet that a good number of us would be lazy bones who wouldn't vote. Lot more of aam junta votes. And the real sadness is that they haven't gotten buses to speed up. Else that would be a good achievement in my mind.
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
The death and accident toll so far has found no more than a passing mention. Without doubt, a few more 'sacrifices' are required!
And this is a 'corridor' of total length 5.8 kms yet! Is this going to significantly make a dent on Delhi's traffic woes?
a. There are deaths due to bad markings versus what such a system would ideally deserve.
b. There are deaths due to people driving like mad. Delhi walas have worser records on NH8 expressway (daily unreported pedestrian hits and regularly car accidents - like a couple a week). greater noida side is not much better.

And the accidents have happened over a much longer stretch - not just the operationalized 5.8km. Miscalculation, no?

The comparison while nice sounding is unjustified. Contractor is liable yes, but BRT itself means people drive within lanes. How is that making it unsafe? Loose logic, saab.

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
In actual fact, what has happened over the last few days is that people are avoiding that route altogether. Thereby, the congestion on it has also reduced. This is, very conveniently, being interpreted as an 'improvement'!! And to give a fillip to this improvement, a
Yes, first delhiites will whine and crib, avoid things before accepting it and actually changing their behaviors to use public transport.
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
few more crores of public money has been sanctioned to build foot over-bridges for pedestrians, bring in air-conditioned buses and a better traffic signaling system.
Are they not needed? Pedestrians have no right of existence? Heck I completely hate nh8 expressway for that reason. Its a downright pain for any pedestrian/cyclist.

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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
It is a wonderful and classic get-rich-quick game in progress.
Tell me one thing the government does which does not be true in the above line? be it rural employment guarantee, roads in himachal, PMGSY, privatization?

Again, it takes little energy or effort to criticize the government. The vast majority here is just cribbing because their schedules are disturbed, not saying what they will do to help things improve. Winston churchill, anyone?

or like others saying blood donation is a good thing, as long as someone else is doing it, or I'm doing it for a relative - not as a regular karma.

But yeah, to each their own. I just want it to be rectified, good buses, and decent connectivity so that people have a decent experience. (those bus stands dont allow a single person to sit - what a fool of a designer!)
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Old 1st May 2008, 12:34   #54
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How can we even begin to compare the Metro with the BRT? Apart from anything else, the Metro doesn't encroach on anybody else's lanes!
  • The Metro will continue to run smoothly for years to come.
  • The BRT will continue to create more chaos for years to come (unless they start acquiring more land & demolishing residential buildings to widen the stretch for creating more lanes).
They will each be consistent in their own way. Lol
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Old 1st May 2008, 12:38   #55
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Originally Posted by rajneeesh View Post
The trials of the first BRT corridor in New Delhi started in New Delhi on Apr 20, 2008. [...] What is your opinion should it be given more time os should the government simply scrap the project?
Scrap it. Sheer foolishness, considering that the BRT lane will be unused most of the time. In Pune, the BRT lane is an utter flop and cars regularly take the lane, including mine. Really pathetic thinking to further narrow down the roads when the traffic is increasing all the time.

Edit: And it is really dangerous, with people abruptly cuting into the BRT lane and out of it. At night the lane is not clearly visible and there is a danger of a serious accident.

Last edited by rks : 1st May 2008 at 12:43.
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Old 1st May 2008, 13:07   #56
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
Funny you should mention that when all of us know that there have already been multiple deaths on this corridor due to shabby practices like material lying around everywhere & unmarked dividers. Can someone remind us again how many bikers have already been killed?

And I'm quite willing to bet a 100rs. that sooner rather than later one of these Blueline drivers in his constant hurry is going to either sideswipe an oncoming bus or ram it head-on. Just wait & watch, we have some of the finest Bus drivers around here!

And going by your seperate lane for Blue Line buses to avoid accidents logic, the worst affected on our roads are two-wheelers, right? Why not make seperate lanes for them too so that no one hits them or runs them over & then make another lane for three-wheelers so that they can stop anywhere they like (Well they do it even now but then it'll be legal!) and then whatever is left of the roads can be used by the cars!
Being a formal Indian tendency, an unmarked divider and loose material splitting over the road isn't a new thing in any part of india. When we can have cattles roaming around on express highways, which is other wise a highly anticipated new face of indian highways, why can't we expect something of this sort on city roads.

I admit you'll win the bet in current scenario, but i can bet another 100Rs it would not happen if close circuit cameras are installed along with the extra traffic police interference on the BRT roads.

Currently BRT Staff is just emphasizing to drive in your respective lanes and wisely only. The said suggestion can be fairly done, but it will other increase chaos only. Govt. authorities can always slap a notice to people living near-by roads and increase the road width without any glitch but it will be otherwise become a problem for people like me & you only.

We should understand BRT is something to synchronize Buses Lanes only. An extract for understanding BRT in a better way
Quote:
An ideal Bus Rapid Transit service would be expected to include most of the following features:
  • Bus only, grade-separated (or at-grade exclusive) right-of-way : The main feature of a BRT system is having dedicated bus lanes which operate separate from all other traffic modes. This allows buses to operate at a very high level of reliability since only professional motorists are allowed on the busway. A side benefit of this are lower construction costs since busways can be engineered to tighter standards and still remain safe compared to a roadway open to non-professional drivers.
    • Such a right of way may be elevated; on rare occasions, the right of way may be a modified rail right of way,
    • A bus street or transit mall can be created in an urban center by dedicating all lanes of a city street to the exclusive use of buses,
    • Low-cost infrastructure elements that can increase the speed and reliability of bus service include bus turnouts, bus boarding islands, and curb realignments.
  • Comprehensive Coverage : In addition to using dedicated busways, BRTs can also take advantage of existing roadways in cities that already have a comprehensive road network for private automobiles. Service can be made more time efficient and reliable than a standard bus system by taking advantage of bus priority methods.
  • Serves a diverse market with high-frequency all day service : A BRT network with comprehensive coverage can serve a diverse market (all income ranges) by moving people from their current location to their destination with high frequency and reliability while maintaining a high level of customer experience. As with any transit system, if any of these benefits are taken out of the equation, or do not provide better service than other modes of transit, the network will not be able to serve as diverse a market or offer high-frequency service without heavy subsidy.
  • Bus Lanes : Preferential treatment of buses at intersections can involve the extension of green time or actuation of the green light at signalized intersections upon detection of an approaching bus. Intersection priority can be particularly helpful when implemented in conjunction with bus lanes or streets, because general-purpose traffic does not intervene between buses and traffic signals.
  • Off-bus fare collection : Conventional on board collection of fares slows the boarding process, particularly when a variety of fares is collected for different destinations and/or classes of passengers. An alternative would be the collection of fares upon entering an enclosed bus station or shelter area prior to bus arrivals (similar to how fares are collected at a kiosk before entering a subway system). This system would allow passengers to board through all doors of a stopped bus.
  • Level boarding : Many BRT systems also use low floor buses (or high level platforms with high floor buses) to speed up passenger boardings and enhance accessibility.
One could argue however that for the expense of building all these features, one may as well build light rail line but overall operating costs are better for buses, especially if commercially operated.
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Originally Posted by iraghava View Post
People criticised Metro because it was constructed in congested areas and traffic was hampered under construction. But once it became operational not only did they bring the roads back to their original if not better than original state but traffic also reduced since the Metro was something that was designed to be world-class & designed with the correct parameters & planning in mind. It wasn't designed by a bunch of arm-chair experts in connivance with private contractors & corrupt Govt. officials.

Have you seen even one protest against the Metro once it became operational even in areas like Old Delhi where people suspected it'll weaken their old building's foundations?? I have not. Apart from auto-wallah's no one has anything negative to say about them. And I'm proud to say that Delhi or India has a public transport system that's absolutely world-class. Today when I have to go to Old Delhi/Rithala areas what do I do? Park my car at CP/ND railway station & take the Metro. Why? because it's convenient, comfortable & cheap. No one's forcing me to take the Metro, I do it out of my own free will because I like it & I realise it makes more sense to travel this way. And so do millions of other people who're using the Metro day in & day out. Can you say the same for the BRT? I don't think so. I don't think comparing the Metro (which is a world-class project completed before time on all sectors & under budget) with the BRT is a fair comparison. I personally think it's an insult to th great people who designed & executed the Metro project.

And this BRT already has the hall markings of a typical Indian Govt. project. Not only is it running behind schedule but already the stretch that was supposed to have cost 100-odd crores has costed the Govt. 213 crores!! You see where this si going? It's the same sad story all over again.
I think you have taken my point in a wrong manner, I was trying to say people do criticize some things at their start-up though with different reasons (Like metro was criticized), but ultimately later on they are happily living, adopting and praising the same. Similar thing follows with BRT, a 213 Crores mega project cannot be ruined in drain. It should be managed with much more efficiency and appropriate management. Rather then criticizing the project we should look at the flaws and try to work on the them. BRT is still pre-mature stage and just a baby on delhi roads.
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Old 1st May 2008, 13:11   #57
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Originally Posted by suman View Post
How can we even begin to compare the Metro with the BRT? Apart from anything else, the Metro doesn't encroach on anybody else's lanes!
  • The Metro will continue to run smoothly for years to come.
  • The BRT will continue to create more chaos for years to come (unless they start acquiring more land & demolishing residential buildings to widen the stretch for creating more lanes).
They will each be consistent in their own way. Lol
Metro doesn't encroaches on else's lanes because it has got his own super-lane

Metro - A matured Public Transport, already touching NCR horizons.
BRT - Pre-matured Public Transport, Still running in test phase.

Difference is very clear.
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Old 1st May 2008, 13:12   #58
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By going through this thread, I would prefer to scrap it at present. These kind of projects shoudl not be implemented unless a better planning is done before. I believe the IIT people might have given a thought but did not give due importance to the traffic chaos it will create if this is implemented. But we have people in government to think of these inconveniences caused to the public if this is implemented, right? What were they doing? They also did not even think of what will happen if this is implemented? Its utter idixxxx to implement unless you increase the road width. What they should have done is to acquire the properties associated with this roads and start widening. After widening, then create the BRT. It would have solved many of the problems which people are facing right now.
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Old 1st May 2008, 13:28   #59
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Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
Similar thing follows with BRT, a 213 Crores mega project cannot be ruined in drain.
It almost went down the drain even before it was completed! I don't know if you are aware that more than 60% into the construction, they came across a water pipeline (on the Sheikh Sarai stretch) that was apparently one of the major lifelines for South Delhi. They were at a dead end because it could not be moved - simple as that. They spent an additional three months (or more maybe, can't remember now) to find a way around it.

Can you tell me why the hell they didn't know about this pipeline till they (literally) hit it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ashthedivx View Post
BRT is still pre-mature stage and just a baby on delhi roads.
My friend, it has formally not been declared "Open" because it would create more of a public furore. Trust me, it is already up & running. Yes, the project is ill-conceived & premature (ejaculation?), baby or not. I have been following this project very closely for the past couple of years (falls on my earlier route) & with each passing day, I have only seen it get worse. Honestly, when all that construction was on between Sheikh Sarai & Chirag Delhi flyover, we probably faced less jams & congestion in rush hour than we are now. Can you call that progress?

To my mind, its not a question of giving this more time & people sticking to their lanes. It is just a question of a BRT corridor being created in an inappropriate location that's all. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Old 1st May 2008, 13:28   #60
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Yes, first delhiites will whine and crib, avoid things before accepting it and actually changing their behaviors to use public transport.

Again, it takes little energy or effort to criticize the government. The vast majority here is just cribbing because their schedules are disturbed, not saying what they will do to help things improve.
Critism has to be judged in the context of whether it is valid or not.
You cannot judge it in what you perceive to be the reasons behind what elicits it!
As for being green or reducing your carbon footprint, there is a time and place for it and a methodology that needs to be followed. My commute being 22 kms, I'll be damned if I'm going to switch to a city bus for a mere 5.8 kms length of my commute!
Many who soundly criticize others for 'unwarranted' critism are making an intellectual hobby of this activity itself - to critisize those who critisize!! Does that help BRT? Will it make it work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaronikar View Post
I believe the IIT people might have given a thought but did not give due importance to the traffic chaos it will create if this is implemented. But we have people in government to think of these inconveniences caused to the public if this is implemented, right? What were they doing? They also did not even think of what will happen if this is implemented? Its utter idixxxx to implement unless you increase the road width. What they should have done is to acquire the properties associated with this roads and start widening. After widening, then create the BRT. It would have solved many of the problems which people are facing right now.
Well said Naronikar.
That is the LEAST expected of so called experts who conceived of this project!
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