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View Poll Results: Stocks as a percentage of my net assets are -
0 - 25% -- I'm like the most conservative Indians. I love FDs. 224 31.95%
26 - 50% -- I have a few stocks. 313 44.65%
51 - 75% -- I'm an active trader. 114 16.26%
76 - 100% -- Hey, I'm an i-banker!!! 50 7.13%
Voters: 701. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 27th December 2010, 00:03   #1711
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

The candles are there, alight, and they probably are lighted, but that light does not react my brains.

;-D

Edit:- carboy, what is your point? Aren't you contradicting yourselves from your earlier position?

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 27th December 2010 at 00:05.
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Old 27th December 2010, 00:10   #1712
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
The candles are there, alight, and they probably are lighted, but that light does not react my brains.

;-D

Edit:- carboy, what is your point? Aren't you contradicting yourselves from your earlier position?
Aren't these gratuitous jabs at people who do anything other than trade?
Quote:
Thats a 50 % return on investment, when the market was devastating the followers of warren buffet.
Quote:
All the while investors were licking their wounds.
And investors don't cry or lick their wounds when the market falls. I for one wait for markets to crash to buy more stock. I made maximum money on the stocks I bought after the Sensex crashed in 2008.

And I don't understand the warren buffet reference. I have never learnt the warren buffet methodology, but I think he buys stocks when they crash on bad news.

Last edited by carboy : 27th December 2010 at 00:14.
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Old 27th December 2010, 00:16   #1713
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carboy, let us face the reality - the stock market is a zero sum game in the short term.

You get the money lost. Or A lost money, B lost some more C lost a wee bit, and D mae plenty of it. But that is the short term.

From that perspective, you are right.

But, there is another PoV to it, and I do not see why Altaf is wrong in sharing his knowledge here. You have certainly made clear your reservations, and we thank you for it.

There are people who drive at breakneck speeds and call the guys stay within speed limits sissies; and the guys who stay within speed limit will call the limit breakers mad.

IMO, both are entitled to their opinion.
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Old 27th December 2010, 00:58   #1714
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

I am ruffling a few feathers here

Backseatdriver: In the candles in the screenshot, you will see a few arrows... Green ones and red ones. The arrows are signals, and after the arrow we have to wait for the trigger which is a predetermined amount of points which is flexible, based on the ATR of a predetermined amount of candles. As soon as the trigger is achieved, we go short. The market falls, and we start to make money. Actually not that simple as what I have made it out to be, but that's what it is.
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Old 27th December 2010, 01:05   #1715
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

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First of all, I think you should avoid the gratuitous jabs.
Second of all, if you think a falling market devastates people who invest rather than trade, you do not understand the first thing about investing.

You Sir, are absolutely right.
I really dont understand a thing about investing. I never claimed to.

I do pity investors though, who have to wait for falls like 2008 to make loads of money.

Traders are like the sails in a sailboat. We move in the direction the wind takes us. If we resist, something bad happens. I think its called drowning.

Carboy, can I please ask or rather request you to leave me alone?
Its a sincere request.

I am not here to validate my views. I am here to share. I don't care if you made your billions in the crash of 2008.

I don't care if you dont like technicals.

All I ask is would you be so kind as to let the people here take a view thats NEVER shared by people?

I am not saying I made a truckfull of money. All I say is, I have something to share,and from the response to my posts, I get the feeling that people would be interested in my viewpoint. That's all.

I am not here to share tips. Tips are for waiters in restaurants and doormen at hotels.

Could you do that much for me please?
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Old 27th December 2010, 01:36   #1716
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its not an equal field. The traders have software from companies like Reuters which analyse news. They even follow twitter of influential people and adjust the trading choices automatically. They crunch numbers using supercomputers. Stay away from stock market. Go for real estate. Plain and simple.
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Old 27th December 2010, 02:00   #1717
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its not an equal field. The traders have software from companies like Reuters which analyse news. They even follow twitter of influential people and adjust the trading choices automatically. They crunch numbers using supercomputers. Stay away from stock market. Go for real estate. Plain and simple.

What can I say, other than what you have said is completely wrong.

A pure technical trader NEVER cares about news, because its factored into price BEFORE it hits the newswires.

Having software from Reuters is like maybe flashing your ferrari for show purposes, whereas you could just walk to your office in the exact next building.

Listening to other people views, is like an automatic way of giving away your money. I think it would be better spent on charity, as thats what you are ultimately doing. Giving away your money if you follow other peoples views.

As far as supercomputers go, hey I have a celeron

As far as realestate goes, does it allow you to start with 10,000 rs? And in multiples thereof?

And if you go the EMI way, can you take a break on your EMI for 6 months and then resume again? And do that 3 times a year?

Why are traders supposed to be the bad people?
With supercomputers, sophisticated softwares, influential connections, and access to news faster than the ordinary person?

Why cant a trader be a pure technical analyst, who cares 2 hoots about the state of the economy, and about what the news is, who can sit in front of his celeron computer, without his reuters and bloomberg terminal, with just a plain vanilla technical analysis software, and a plain brokers trade platform, which is free with most brokers, and make money?


Why does it have to be stuff from Langley? Sorry could not resist that ... just finished watching The Recruit on Star Movies.
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Old 27th December 2010, 07:01   #1718
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As far as realestate goes, does it allow you to start with 10,000 rs? And in multiples thereof?
Not saying anything for or against real estate as an investment, but very soon you will be able to start with Rs.10000 once REITs are introduced in India.
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Old 27th December 2010, 10:20   #1719
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Not saying anything for or against real estate as an investment, but very soon you will be able to start with Rs.10000 once REITs are introduced in India.
I am scepitcal about the proposal.

Once introduced, how will this differ from futures in tomatoes?

No two lots of tomatoes or real estate can be identical; or did I miss something?

I am afraid the proposal will push up real estate prices, away from reach of common man. But of course, that is what we want, right?
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Old 27th December 2010, 10:35   #1720
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
carboy, let us face the reality - the stock market is a zero sum game in the short term.

You get the money lost. Or A lost money, B lost some more C lost a wee bit, and D mae plenty of it. But that is the short term.

From that perspective, you are right.

But, there is another PoV to it, and I do not see why Altaf is wrong in sharing his knowledge here. You have certainly made clear your reservations, and we thank you for it.

There are people who drive at breakneck speeds and call the guys stay within speed limits sissies; and the guys who stay within speed limit will call the limit breakers mad.

IMO, both are entitled to their opinion.
Right, everybody is entitled to their opinion

@Altaf - It is about time the new thread on "Technical analysis" is opened.
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Old 27th December 2010, 11:14   #1721
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

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I am scepitcal about the proposal.

Once introduced, how will this differ from futures in tomatoes?

No two lots of tomatoes or real estate can be identical; or did I miss something?
Real Estate Investment Trust (REIT) Definition

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
I am afraid the proposal will push up real estate prices, away from reach of common man. But of course, that is what we want, right?
Maybe the same thing can be said for mutual funds in equity also.
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Old 27th December 2010, 11:57   #1722
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At the risk of being beaten up by the long timers in this thread. 115 pages is a bit long to go through, I am absolutely new to this. Infact I'm much more behind new also, I have an demat account and that's about it. I have zilch knowledge about anything of stocks.

But, I am really eager to learn. Can someone point me in the right direction as to where and how to start. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here all starry eyed with conceptions that I'd end up with a pot of gold in a few months. I just want to learn as much as possible of this stock market gain. I'm probably going to dabble with just playing with 5K to start with

Looking forward to some guidance from the guru's!
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Old 27th December 2010, 12:11   #1723
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At the risk of being beaten up by the long timers in this thread. 115 pages is a bit long to go through, I am absolutely new to this. Infact I'm much more behind new also, I have an demat account and that's about it. I have zilch knowledge about anything of stocks.

But, I am really eager to learn. Can someone point me in the right direction as to where and how to start. Don't get me wrong, I'm not here all starry eyed with conceptions that I'd end up with a pot of gold in a few months. I just want to learn as much as possible of this stock market gain. I'm probably going to dabble with just playing with 5K to start with

Looking forward to some guidance from the guru's!
You need to first figure out if you want to trade or invest?
If you want to invest, you have 2 options
- Mutual Funds
- Individual Stocks.

Either way, if you want to be an investor, I suggest you pick up the book "Intelligent Investor" by Benjamin Graham.
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Old 27th December 2010, 12:32   #1724
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What can I say, other than what you have said is completely wrong.
I might be wrong. But I always feel that as information is what matters when you pick stocks. And we plain investors have never full information. But I will clarify that I do invest in market via MF's. But going solo is something which I can never do.

This article published in "The Hindu" is what I was trying to quote from. For the benefit of the inpatient generation I am pasting the whole section. Somehow after reading it I was not very comfortable with the whole system.

The Hindu : Opinion / Op-Ed : Computers that trade on the news

"

The number-crunchers on Wall Street are starting to crunch something else: the news.

Math-loving traders are using powerful computers to speed-read news reports, editorials, company Web sites, blog posts and even Twitter messages — and then letting the machines decide what it all means for the markets.

The development goes far beyond standard digital fare like most-read and e-mailed lists. In some cases, the computers are actually parsing writers' words, sentence structure, even the odd emoticon. A wink and a smile — — for instance, just might mean things are looking up for the markets. Then, often without human intervention, the programmes are interpreting that news and trading on it.

Given the volatility in the markets and concern that computerised trading exaggerates the ups and downs, the notion that Wall Street is engineering news-bots might sound like an investor's nightmare.

Technological revolution

But the development, years in the making, is part of the technological revolution that is reshaping Wall Street. In a business where information is the most valuable commodity, traders with the smartest, fastest computers can outfox and outmanoeuvre rivals.

“It is an arms race,” said Roger Ehrenberg, managing partner at IA Ventures, an investment firm specialising in young companies, speaking of some of the new technologies that help traders identify events first and interpret them.

Many of the robo-readers look beyond the numbers and try to analyse market sentiment, that intuitive feeling investors have about the markets. Like the latest economic figures, news and social media buzz — “unstructured data,” as it is known — can shift the mood from exuberance to despondency.

Tech-savvy traders have been scraping data out of new reports, press releases and corporate Web sites for years. But new, linguistics-based software goes well beyond that. News agencies like Bloomberg, Dow Jones and Thomson Reuters have adopted the idea, offering services that supposedly help their Wall Street customers sift through news automatically.

Words and sentiment

Some of these programmes hardly seem like rocket science. Working with academics at Columbia University and the University of Notre Dame, Dow Jones compiled a dictionary of about 3,700 words that can signal changes in sentiment. Feel-good words include obvious ones like “ingenuity,” “strength” and “winner.” Feel-bad ones include “litigious,” “colludes” and “risk.”

The software typically identifies the subject of a story and then examines the actual words. The programmes are written to recognise the meaning of words and phrases in context, like distinguishing between “terribly,” “good” and “terribly good.”

Vince Fioramonti, a portfolio manager at Alpha Equity Management, a $185 million equities fund in Hartford, uses Thomson Reuters software to measure sentiment over weeks, rather than minutes or hours, and pumps that information directly into his fund's trading systems.

“It is an aggregate effect,” Mr. Fioramonti said. “These things give you the ability to assimilate more information.”

Bloomberg monitors news articles and Twitter feeds and alerts its customers if a lot of people are suddenly sending Twitter messages about, say, I.B.M.

Lexalytics, a text analysis company in Amherst, Mass., that works with Thomson Reuters, says it has developed algorithms that make sense out of Twitter messages. That includes emoticons like the happy-face and the not-so-happy :\.

Sceptics abound, but proponents insist such software will eventually catch on with traders.

“This is where the news breaks,” said Jeff Catlin, the chief executive of Lexalytics. “You have a leg up if you are a trader.”

The computer-savvy traders known as quants are paying attention. According to Aite Group, a financial services consulting company, about 35 per cent of quantitative trading firms are exploring whether to use unstructured data feeds.

Quants often use these programmes to manage their risks by, say, automatically shutting down trading when bad news hits.

But industry experts say the programmes are also moving the markets. Last May, as Greece's financial crisis deepened, Wall Street computers seized on a news story with the word “abyss” in the headline and initiated sell orders, according to industry experts.

Reactions

But some warn of a growing digital divide in the markets. Well-heeled traders who can afford sophisticated technology have an edge over everyone else, these people say.

Paul Tetlock, an associate professor at Columbia University who did research that was used to create the news algorithms, worries that technology has skewed the playing field. Regulators, he said, should keep a close eye on these high-speed traders.

“People are trading news at very high frequency,” he said. “People worry about that.”

But the experts are already talking about the next thing — programmes to automatically digest broadcast and closed-caption television. Adam Honoré, the research director at Aite Group, said the innovations did not end there. He said some traders were using software that monitored public statements by corporate executives and administered the computer equivalent of a lie-detector test.

“It is the next wave of trading,” Mr. Honoré said of unstructured data. “It goes hand in hand with more and more of everyday life being digitised.” "
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Old 27th December 2010, 12:40   #1725
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I think we are discussing trading the Nifty here, thats traded on the NSE

At last check, it was located somewhere in Bandra Kurla Complex.

Dont worry, these things are not happening in India, at least to my knowledge, and I have friends in most big mutual funds, and they are still not using such things. As for auto trading, its in its baby days here, and that too its used almost exclusively for arbitrage opportunities, because that what is currently exploitable in our markets.

As for news, I suggest that the day you start to trade, avoid even news channels, let alone CNBC. In traders parlance, CNBC is known as Cartoon Network. They call 3 to 5 people in the morning who give their views on the markets. At the end of the day, the person whose prediction was right come on again and says " I told you so " The other 4 who appeared in the morning just conveniently disappear for the next 2 or 3 days.
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