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View Poll Results: Stocks as a percentage of my net assets are -
0 - 25% -- I'm like the most conservative Indians. I love FDs. 224 31.95%
26 - 50% -- I have a few stocks. 313 44.65%
51 - 75% -- I'm an active trader. 114 16.26%
76 - 100% -- Hey, I'm an i-banker!!! 50 7.13%
Voters: 701. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 3rd February 2012, 21:50   #2011
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

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Originally Posted by Alter_Ego View Post
Buddy, read jacksons post once again.He is lending against property.If the builder defaults on 30% no one would be more happy than jacksons.He would be getting more than 30% anyhow.
Meanwhile you can continue selling bridges
Jackson will lend 50 Lakhs for a property which is either not yet built or which is built but not sold. If the property doesn't sell for 65 Lakhs when the builder defaults at the end of 1 year (or 85 lakhs at the end of 2 years), how will jackson get more than 30%. This is assuming all the legal papers are drawn up fine.

If it was guaranteed - why wouldn't the builder take a loan from a bank at 15% or 20% rather than paying Jackson 30%? Because the bank is probably not willing to lend it to him.

If there was a guaranteed 30% return, nobody would put money in fixed deposits, stocks, mutual funds or any else. Give me a 20% guaranteed return and I am willing to put 50% of all my life's savings in it - as long as the guarantee is stone cold.

If someone talks about a guaranteed 30% return, any person with any background in finance will have no option but to laugh at him.
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Old 3rd February 2012, 22:01   #2012
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Jackson will lend 50 Lakhs for a property which is either not yet built or which is built but not sold. If the property doesn't sell for 65 Lakhs when the builder defaults at the end of 1 year (or 85 lakhs at the end of 2 years), how will jackson get more than 30%. This is assuming all the legal papers are drawn up fine.

If it was guaranteed - why wouldn't the builder take a loan from a bank at 15% or 20% rather than paying Jackson 30%? Because the bank is probably not willing to lend it to him.

If there was a guaranteed 30% return, nobody would put money in fixed deposits, stocks, mutual funds or any else. Give me a 20% guaranteed return and I am willing to put 50% of all my life's savings in it - as long as the guarantee is stone cold.

If someone talks about a guaranteed 30% return, any person with any background in finance will have no option but to laugh at him.
Oh then no use of me convincing you.To each one his own
By the way sent you a PM.Not related to real estate.But related to stocks
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Old 5th February 2012, 18:29   #2013
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

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Originally Posted by jacksons View Post
Guys, need advise for buying good shares for 8 to 10 months period, willing to invest 50 lakhs or should I lend it to a builder at the rate of 30% per year against property ?
Builder is quite big with many projects and good report.
market looks bullish and you can build your portfolio with some frontline and midcap stocks. or invest through Portfolio Managements Services with a reputed brokerage house.
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Old 5th February 2012, 18:35   #2014
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market looks bullish and you can build your portfolio with some frontline and midcap stocks. or invest through Portfolio Managements Services with a reputed brokerage house.

Nifty is up 900 points from its low. Dot you think its a wee bit overstretched, to start buying midcaps, that have had a tearing run, some are up more than 60 %???

As for so called reputed brokerage houses, all they care is that you generate brokerage, your profits be damned!

Most of these so called reputed brokerage houses give put a 10 X target to the Rm's. This means, if they have a salary of 20,000 per month, they HAVE to generate brokerage of 200000 per month, or the next month they may no longer have a job. and thats 200000 in brokerage, not turnover.

Also, have you ever wondered, why your RM calls you and asks you to buy xyz ltd? Do you think he cares for you to make money? The answer is an unequivocal "NO". All he is trying to do is, achieve his brokerage target.
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Old 5th February 2012, 19:35   #2015
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Originally Posted by carboy View Post
Jackson will lend 50 Lakhs for a property which is either not yet built or which is built but not sold. If the property doesn't sell for 65 Lakhs when the builder defaults at the end of 1 year (or 85 lakhs at the end of 2 years), how will jackson get more than 30%. This is assuming all the legal papers are drawn up fine.

If it was guaranteed - why wouldn't the builder take a loan from a bank at 15% or 20% rather than paying Jackson 30%? Because the bank is probably not willing to lend it to him.

If there was a guaranteed 30% return, nobody would put money in fixed deposits, stocks, mutual funds or any else. Give me a 20% guaranteed return and I am willing to put 50% of all my life's savings in it - as long as the guarantee is stone cold.

If someone talks about a guaranteed 30% return, any person with any background in finance will have no option but to laugh at him.
Carboy, have done this earlier also @ 35% per year, This is like builder has housing project and is about to be completed, lets say he is selling it @ 3500 per Sq. feet and market rate is Rs. 3200 per Sq. feet and the size is like 2200 sq feet of flat. A total cost of flat as per builder is Rs. 77,00,000 but market value is Rs. 70,40,000, on market price, builder will give me discount of 30%, say will charge me only Rs 50,00,000 for the same flat with agreement of buyback with the cheque of Rs. 65,00,000 as post dated for a year time.
Agreement is simple that I have invested in his project with assured return and I will have to surrender the property as per agreement.
I don,t know much about funding from the bank to the builder but fix deposit is like loosing money, I have never done that and will never ever do that. You can PM me for 20% and can get in touch with me. There are many people know how to make money out of money more than keeping it bank and see its getting depreciated everyday. Heard of Marwaries ?

Last edited by jacksons : 5th February 2012 at 19:42.
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Old 5th February 2012, 19:50   #2016
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Carboy, have done this earlier also @ 35% per year, This is like builder has housing project and is about to be completed, lets say he is selling it @ 3500 per Sq. feet and market rate is Rs. 3200 per Sq. feet and the size is like 2200 sq feet of flat. A total cost of flat as per builder is Rs. 77,00,000 but market value is Rs. 70,40,000, on market price, builder will give me discount of 30%, say will charge me only Rs 50,00,000 for the same flat with agreement of buyback with the cheque of Rs. 65,00,000 as post dated for a year time.
Agreement is simple that I have invested in his project with assured return and I will have to surrender the property as per agreement.
I don,t know much about funding from the bank to the builder but fix deposit is like loosing money, I have never done that and will never ever do that.
Yes. FD is like losing money - but people still put money in it because it's guaranteed to some extent.

About the builder thing, it works as long as he is able to get a buyer for 65L at the time - for many years, real estate has been appreciating and hence it works, but it's not guaranteed. A post dated cheque is not a guarantee.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksons View Post
You can PM me for 20% and can get in touch with me. There are many people know how to make money out of money more than keeping it bank and see its getting depreciated everyday. Heard of Marwaries ?
Sure - but it's not guaranteed. If it were, no one will keep money in bank FDs.

I am not saying you shouldn't invest in non guaranteed stuff - all I am saying is that you should do it knowing it's not guaranteed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaf Petiwala View Post
Nifty is up 900 points from its low. Dot you think its a wee bit overstretched, to start buying midcaps, that have had a tearing run, some are up more than 60 %???

As for so called reputed brokerage houses, all they care is that you generate brokerage, your profits be damned!

Most of these so called reputed brokerage houses give put a 10 X target to the Rm's. This means, if they have a salary of 20,000 per month, they HAVE to generate brokerage of 200000 per month, or the next month they may no longer have a job. and thats 200000 in brokerage, not turnover.

Also, have you ever wondered, why your RM calls you and asks you to buy xyz ltd? Do you think he cares for you to make money? The answer is an unequivocal "NO". All he is trying to do is, achieve his brokerage target.
Yup. Any advisor who gives you free advice makes money on the brokerage. I have 4 different personal advisors from banks and brokerages. I mostly don't even take their phone calls or read their emails.

Last edited by carboy : 5th February 2012 at 19:54.
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Old 5th February 2012, 20:03   #2017
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

Quote:
Sure - but it's not guaranteed. If it were, no one will keep money in bank FDs.

I am not saying you shouldn't invest in non guaranteed stuff - all I am saying is that you should do it knowing it's not guaranteed.
Well its Guaranteed, there is no reason you should think its not as property i am taking as guarantee is well assessed by me first before I put my money. I you don't think so is your problem not mine.
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Old 5th February 2012, 23:03   #2018
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altaf Petiwala View Post
Nifty is up 900 points from its low. Dot you think its a wee bit overstretched, to start buying midcaps, that have had a tearing run, some are up more than 60 %???

As for so called reputed brokerage houses, all they care is that you generate brokerage, your profits be damned!

Most of these so called reputed brokerage houses give put a 10 X target to the Rm's. This means, if they have a salary of 20,000 per month, they HAVE to generate brokerage of 200000 per month, or the next month they may no longer have a job. and thats 200000 in brokerage, not turnover.

Also, have you ever wondered, why your RM calls you and asks you to buy xyz ltd? Do you think he cares for you to make money? The answer is an unequivocal "NO". All he is trying to do is, achieve his brokerage target.
yes, you are right, nifty is moving up, but that is the reason we should buy. you cant catch the highs and lows.

coming to midcaps - they might have run up but has a lot more to catch up. i am not concerned about how much they ran up, my only concern is how much they go up after my entry price.

brokers- u need them, sebi has not yet allowed public to trade directly and there are some real good people among them too. u have to pick, thats all.

surely, following your RM is not the right way. i have my own analysis and indicators to follow but need his services to execute my orders!!
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Old 5th February 2012, 23:29   #2019
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yes, you are right, nifty is moving up, but that is the reason we should buy. you cant catch the highs and lows.

coming to midcaps - they might have run up but has a lot more to catch up. i am not concerned about how much they ran up, my only concern is how much they go up after my entry price.

brokers- u need them, sebi has not yet allowed public to trade directly and there are some real good people among them too. u have to pick, thats all.

surely, following your RM is not the right way. i have my own analysis and indicators to follow but need his services to execute my orders!!

But VSH, you mentioned that we should invest via portfolio management services of these brokers. I have pointed out the futility of that.

As for indicators, are you completely mechanical, or are you discretionary too, to an extent?

I develop trading systems, and am trying ( the key word here ) to completely mechanise my trading, with some proprietory indicators. So far, my brain has been doing an excellent job of interfering with my logical decisions, and spoiling many a trade

Would you care to share your experiences? I think I recall seeing one of your posts in Traderji also.
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Old 6th February 2012, 00:20   #2020
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

Altaf
Hi
Your post 2014:Fully agree with you
At the same time how many times have you noticed that the share which has a buy call keeps going down and vice versa.
Give you a great example
Since the last few weeks there have been maximum sell calls for colgate acc and abb
In the last 2 weeks ACC and ABB have outperformed to some extent.
In fact Technically ACC is showing a pattern of breaking out.
I have been dealing in shares for 30 years and more often than not it is hit and miss.
Everybody(including myself) was expecting the market to go down in Jan but it has been the best month in years.
Regards
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Old 6th February 2012, 10:17   #2021
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

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Originally Posted by Altaf Petiwala View Post
But VSH, you mentioned that we should invest via portfolio management services of these brokers. I have pointed out the futility of that.

As for indicators, are you completely mechanical, or are you discretionary too, to an extent?

I develop trading systems, and am trying ( the key word here ) to completely mechanise my trading, with some proprietory indicators. So far, my brain has been doing an excellent job of interfering with my logical decisions, and spoiling many a trade

Would you care to share your experiences? I think I recall seeing one of your posts in Traderji also.
i am a pure trader but many of my friends have invested in PMS with good returns.
i am a strategy trader. i have many trend following strategies and i religiously follow them.
i never posted in traderji. i am an active member in tradoholics.com- an excellent hangout for traders. pls have a look at the site and join. lot of traders there can benefit from your expertise.
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Old 6th February 2012, 16:22   #2022
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What is the advice on Reliance offer for buyback ?
Should we opt in there are bigger goodies around the corner ...
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Old 7th March 2012, 23:29   #2023
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Guys, With SP winning the elections in UP, keep an eye on the ADAG stocks like Rel Infra, Rel Capital. Saw some good movement in them over the past few days
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Old 15th March 2012, 21:13   #2024
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Default Re: Do you play the stock market

I started trading a few months back and made lot of mistakes. Had painful realizations only recently and have started analyzing for patterns. I do not follow the brokerage companies.

However, the morning show on NDTV Profit till 9:15/9:30 gives a good indication of fundamental/technical perspectives. I always make it a point to follow the channel during that time.

If the budget is good for the stock markets and if we see strength beyond 5500/5600 then expect the Nifty to touch 6000 levels in 2012 itself. Will be on the look out for good deals at the Options side for Nifty.
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Old 9th June 2012, 22:34   #2025
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Ho this thread goes silent when the markets go down

Come on people, make this thread lively again!
In fact, anyone in Pune upto a quick market meet in or around Fatimanagar, NIBM, wanowrie?

We could all share experiences, and I could find ears to listen to my woes
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