Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 2nd July 2008, 16:42   #46
BHPian
 
Wheeliej's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 278
Thanked: 42 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by autoenthusiast View Post
Hi Everyone, after reading all the above I have decided to reopen a Term insurance policy. My term insurance had expired 2 years back and I never renewed it. I used to have the SBI Life term insurance.
Does any one knows which one is better ? SBI Life or LIC ?

Thanks in advance.
Hi,

Try and see if your old term insurance can be renewed; in LIC it can be renewed within 5 years. It will be cheaper to do that than to go in for fresh insurance now. Insurance always costs more the older you are and after a certain age medical tests become mandatory.

I think both LIC and SBI should be equally safe; but i prefer LIC.

Cheers
Wheeliej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd July 2008, 21:17   #47
BHPian
 
anonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NCR
Posts: 564
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

Update.
I visited Aviva branch and applied for cancellation of the proposal. They also gave me written approval that application has been received.
But today I received a call that the proposal has been accepted and I would be receivng the policy papers soon. So it means that everything is now sorted out magically. After this call, I recieved another call that in order to the cancel the policy, I will have to re visit the branch with the policy docs and re apply for cancellation.

Last edited by anonymous : 3rd July 2008 at 21:19.
anonymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 01:21   #48
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

I am very sorry to say most of you have conclusions/inferences based on hearsay and/or incomplete information.

I have spent the last 8 years (till Dec last) in the life insurance industry and I can - with facts - refute most of what has been posted till now. (not product specific).

Fundmanetal problem - who is your 'financial advisor' ?? Most of our investment decisions are rarely based on our own research. Its largely what a friend/neighbour/relative or someone you thing knows it better than you, did. For instance please ask yourself why you bank with the bank that you do - did you ever research their antecedants etc to conclude that that is the best for you? What have you gathered about how safe your money is? Regardles of generally accepted beliefs and hearsay - have you asked to see anything in writing to see any of the things that you believe to be true? The law has provided enough protection for investors - however if we dont take the effort to do our reasearch , or read the fine print, then we have only ourselves to blame! In other words if we lose ALL our money we have only ourselves to blame!!

Just to illustrate - I have had the opportunity of helping show some (more than half a dozen) of the top industrial families in India the benefit of investing in Insurance heavily - and they have! And they are happy till date! These decisions go thru a lot of experts - legal and fiscal - before its taken. So it can be done - if done right!!

IN conclusion - all the information you want is available out there - Please do your OWN research and ensure you take the right decision. (and please do not base this on hearsay - anyones!)
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 10:23   #49
BHPian
 
setuniket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Noida|Delhi
Posts: 114
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

@kb100:- Agreed, our own research helps us quite a bit, rather it should be more determinal than anyone else(freinds, neighbours,family or collegues) observations.
But there are other very important questions,like, are the activities mentioned above ethical.

The question asked is not just for the aviva thing, i personally have seen many motor accident claims where genuine labour charges were delibrately reduce by the official of Bajaj Allianz, which later the customer promised to pay from his pocket.The labour charges being fixed by the service center and ideally paid to the poor mechanic.

There are many more horror stories about the harrasment which a customer goes through when filing a claim and whole process in private insurance, which in itself will be a whole new thread.

Thats the reason I perfer visiting National Insurance office once every year to renew the insurance rather than doing it "online" from the private insurance companies.

Last edited by setuniket : 4th July 2008 at 10:29.
setuniket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 11:23   #50
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by setuniket View Post

The question asked is not just for the aviva thing, i personally have seen many motor accident claims where genuine labour charges were delibrately reduce by the official of Bajaj Allianz, which later the customer promised to pay from his pocket.The labour charges being fixed by the service center and ideally paid to the poor mechanic.

There are many more horror stories about the harassment which a customer goes through when filing a claim and whole process in private insurance, which in itself will be a whole new thread.

That's the reason I prefer visiting National Insurance office once every year to renew the insurance rather than doing it "online" from the private insurance companies.
This is what I exactly mean by 'lack of research/hearsay/incomplete information'.

How have you deduced that the private insurance companies are poor when it comes to claims and the national ones aren't? Have you seen any absolute statistics to the number of claims filed vs the number repudiated (the insurance term for rejection). The only source of this info is IRDA and reading the statistics might throw a spanner into most accepted schools of thought!

I repeat - the law is EQUAL. Everything pertaining too your policy is mentioned in the policy document. How many of us have read it cover to cover? (I know I haven't!!) .No company can reject a claim under flimsy grounds - in fact IRDA ensures the companies have to regularly file all claim details - along with the outcome. And any deviations/delays from laid down TATs have to be explained to their satisfaction - there are severe fiscal and other penalties.

The Insurance domain is by far THE MOST regulated domain in the country. RBI regulations governing banks dont even come near. YES - agents are known to lie/conceal facts for their own interests - which is why the law has provided for a 15 day FREE LOOK period for you to go thru your policy document in detail - and if any of the clauses in it is unacceptable to you you are free to return it for a FULL REFUND.

In a nutshell - "It is your money" - and in hindsight we will realise we have only ourselves to blame!! Therefore choose wisely!

Understanding the whole thing will take the better part of a couple of days. If there are any specific queries I will be glad to take them via PM

Last edited by kb100 : 4th July 2008 at 11:26.
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 13:31   #51
BHPian
 
setuniket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Noida|Delhi
Posts: 114
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
This is what I exactly mean by 'lack of research/hearsay/incomplete information'.
Accepted, but it had not been the case in every situation/case/claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
How have you deduced that the private insurance companies are poor when it comes to claims and the national ones aren't? Have you seen any absolute statistics to the number of claims filed vs the number repudiated (the insurance term for rejection). The only source of this info is IRDA and reading the statistics might throw a spanner into most accepted schools of thought!
Statistics shows only a part of the picture, for a customer the way the company deals with the him/her is the thing that matters.when one has to deal with the company, the real truth comes out. Experience in terms of dealing has been better with national companies in respect to private companies.

For common customer what matters most is..(after the acutal goal/ the need of insurance)

-Ease of premium calculation and payment.
-Genuine estimation and speedy claim processing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
I repeat - the law is EQUAL. Everything pertaining too your policy is mentioned in the policy document. How many of us have read it cover to cover? (I know I haven't!!) .No company can reject a claim under flimsy grounds - in fact IRDA ensures the companies have to regularly file all claim details - along with the outcome. And any deviations/delays from laid down TATs have to be explained to their satisfaction - there are severe fiscal and other penalties.
No one rarely reads the policy and its terms and conditions.Thats a fact, but there has been flimsy grounds for claim rejection(source Newspapers) and the case landing up in consumer court, the companies losing and paying hefty fines/damages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
The Insurance domain is by far THE MOST regulated domain in the country. RBI regulations governing banks dont even come near. YES - agents are known to lie/conceal facts for their own interests - which is why the law has provided for a 15 day FREE LOOK period for you to go thru your policy document in detail - and if any of the clauses in it is unacceptable to you you are free to return it for a FULL REFUND.
The companies are regulated but the agents are not(if they are, how do they get away with all the lies/concealed facts), that means the customers are taken for a ride.Whatever the regulations being, if it doesnt turn out to improve situations in the customer side the whole regulation process is not able to achieve its goal.

This free look clause is never ever mentioned by the agents/companies in verbal or written mode.How does a regular customer come to know about that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
In a nutshell - "It is your money" - and in hindsight we will realise we have only ourselves to blame!! Therefore choose wisely!
True its upto the customer to look into the facts before buying anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
Understanding the whole thing will take the better part of a couple of days. If there are any specific queries I will be glad to take them via PM
I will surely PM you in regard to any query.
setuniket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 14:33   #52
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by setuniket View Post
This free look clause is never ever mentioned by the agents/companies in verbal or written mode.How does a regular customer come to know about that?
IT IS! - And in BOLD at that!

This underlines what I have been saying all along - Please read all possible literature the insurance company gives you - ESPECIALLY the policy document!
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 15:41   #53
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by setuniket View Post
The companies are regulated but the agents are not(if they are, how do they get away with all the lies/concealed facts), that means the customers are taken for a ride.Whatever the regulations being, if it doesnt turn out to improve situations in the customer side the whole regulation process is not able to achieve its goal.
Just thought I'll add....

There are rules governing every facet of this business. The regulators are continuously monitoring the activity and bring about necessary course-corrections from time to time to strengthen these rules and to increase compliance. One big challenge is the agent community. There are over 60 lakh agents in the country (rough estimate) and this figure is growing every day. It is next to impossible to monitor what each of them commits verbally to each of the clients they meet. Which is why the protection is given through the 'Free Look' period.

A lot many times we again have only ourselves to blame - the agent typically plays on our greed. The regulator has clearly instructed ALL illustrations given by ALL companies should contain only two rates of return - @ 6% and 10%. All the companies had accordingly revised their illustration software to conform to this. But this used to get circumvented with a lot of excel workarounds. In order to stem this some private companies have started insisting that the customer affixes his full signature on the 'illustration' (the cash flow work out typically given with a policy) as well so that he is in NO doubt what he is getting into. I know cases where despite this the customer feel cheated - and his money had been returned (where it need'nt be).

Insurance works on GOOD FAITH. They are there to pay and they will pay if the insured event takes place. However insurance fraud forms the single largest crime known to mankind for years together now. More than half the murders committed in the world typically is for insurance gains. Hence most companies have checks and balances in place to try and ensure this does not affect the genuine customer (if it did this would, amongst other things, result in increased premiums and decreased returns etc.). Sometimes they get a little oblique with the interpretation of rules - at which point the courts step in. Please know that for every ruling against the insurance company there are 10 times that many in favour of them.

On the flip side many ppl are prone to lie about their weight, conditions etc. on the insurance application forms - some times egged on by the agent himself. But please bear this in mind. Should something happen - and you have to put in a claim - they will typically employ third party investigators, and if they can prove that the facts disclosed in the application was not true (malafide intent to defraud) , then they need not pay a pie! The agents never advice the customer to be as truthful as possible while filling up the forms - In fact in most cases the agent himself fills up the form - THIS IS AGAINST THE LAW! The customer is supposed to fill this in his own handwriting - and there is a declaration at the end where he signs attesting to this fact and once you have done that its very difficult to contest in the court of law!

The National vs Private debate has been going on since time in memorial - and this is not limited to the insurance sphere. I am sure everyone agrees that accountability is far higher in a private company. Rotten apples exist everywhere. Therefore take your pick of products/company. Both have their advantages/disadvantages. Know what they are clearly - It is clearly NOT what has been listed in the posts so far.

There is a lot more to this ... but for now lets stop here.

Last edited by kb100 : 4th July 2008 at 15:48.
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 16:22   #54
BHPian
 
anonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NCR
Posts: 564
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
I am very sorry to say most of you have conclusions/inferences based on hearsay and/or incomplete information.

I have spent the last 8 years (till Dec last) in the life insurance industry and I can - with facts - refute most of what has been posted till now. (not product specific).
Hi KB100,
How can you say that my decision was based on hearsay and/or incomplete information.
I did my own research and found that Aviva gives the most return and best in after sales service.
But the problem I had faced, I am sure it can be experienced only after the policy has been taken and these type of problems occur. I myself have seen many people, who have taken the policy and so far never had faced any issue, they are very happy with their insurance provider.
anonymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 17:05   #55
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
Hi KB100,
How can you say that my decision was based on hearsay and/or incomplete information.
I did my own research and found that Aviva gives the most return and best in after sales service.
But the problem I had faced, I am sure it can be experienced only after the policy has been taken and these type of problems occur. I myself have seen many people, who have taken the policy and so far never had faced any issue, they are very happy with their insurance provider.
Three things ..

Firstly the operative word used here was 'most' - I never mentioned anything specific about you/your decision/ the product you bought/Aviva or ANY other company - Nothing!! I had clearly put in that post you quoted that this was 'NOT PRODUCT SPECIFIC' . My post was entirely about the insurance industry in general and the Pvt/National debate in particular - and how best to avoid problems of any kind. Please read through it again and tell me if I have erred anywhere!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
Tried to seach but could not find any dedicated thread for life insurance, so here is the one.
The idea is to share your experience in dealing with various Insurance provider, could be Goverment company as L.I.C or private like aviva, icici, etc.
My story :- One of Aviva's sales representative was after me to sell policy. After he had answered to all my queies, I finally applied for for Aviva Little Master Plan for my son, because I everyone said that this is one of the best plan for kids. I gave a cheque of the premium and all the documents required. At this time Aviva guy told me that I would be getting the policy within 7 working days. The premium amount was debited from my accouny on the 5th working day.
After 9 days I received a letter instead of the full policy from Aviva stating that there were some document missing. I called their customer care and was asked to contact the branch from where the policy was booked. I spoke to them and they confirmed that one document was missing from their end and I was not supposed to do anything. They also assured that they would take care of this. I even called them again and they said that they had taken care of the issue but to my surprise, I received another letter after 3-4 days, stating the same story, still one document was missing.
Now I am really fedup with all this crap and have just talked to the customer service again. I asked them how can Company debit the cheque if the any document was missing in the proposal. They had no answer. I had asked to cancel the proposal and refund the money. Lets see how it goes.
Imagine if this kind of treatment is being given to a potential customer, I wonder how will they treat to someone, when a claim is made or when the policy is matured and time to return the money to the customer.
Secondly, since we are now on the subject, please note the highlighted portion of your original post reproduced above - you have written that you bought this based on what 'everyone said' and your understanding about the TAT (Turn Around Time)was again based on an oral comment by the 'Aviva Guy'. This is exactly what I was talking about in my posts. (Please note again that no where have I mentioned anything about any product or any company anywhere!)

Thirdly what you have detailed as a problem is not a problem at all - but a regular process followed by ALL insurance companies. All life insurance applications goes through an underwriting process where the underwriters may call upon any missing/additional documents, additional medical tests etc as they see fit to be able to assess the risk. The cheque in the meantime would have hit the accounts team who would apply the funds to the contract as soon as it is realised. Most of this process is automated these days and independent of each other. And since we are talking about thousands of documents a day (at the underwriting centre) a couple of them do go missing/misplaced every now and then despite having the best of systems in place. It was unfortunate that the people interacting with the customers are not well trained enough to handle customer queries - more often than not , given the strict confidentiality clause etc, most of them do not even have access to your file/status. Most of them are largely outsourced call centres who operate purely as a query collection/onward transmission point. This can get very irritating for a paying customer! He has to have a source for correct and accurate information.

Hope this explains! It was never my intent to question anything you do/did - and I am sorry if it seemed that way to you. I trust there are no hard feelings

Last edited by kb100 : 4th July 2008 at 17:15.
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 17:58   #56
BHPian
 
anonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NCR
Posts: 564
Thanked: 15 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kb100 View Post
You have written that you bought this based on what 'everyone said' and your understanding about the TAT (Turn Around Time)was again based on an oral comment by the 'Aviva Guy'. This is exactly what I was talking about in my posts.

What you have detailed as a problem is not a problem at all - but a regular process followed by ALL insurance companies. All life insurance applications goes through an underwriting process where the underwriters may call upon any missing/additional documents, additional medical tests etc as they see fit to be able to assess the risk. The cheque in the meantime would have hit the accounts team who would apply the funds to the contract as soon as it is realised.
Hope this explains! It was never my intent to question anything you do/did - and I am sorry if it seemed that way to you. I trust there are no hard feelings
I must thank you KB for this wonderful explanation. Now let me add my views as well
1 - I also mentioned that I did my own research before going for the policy and obviously I had asked my friends, relatives etc as well.
2 - I may be wrong here and you can correct me, I think when one applies for insurance policy, agent doesn't give any document at that point of time, rather agent takes all the paper, photos cheque etc. Once company receives them and approved them, then only they send the policy to the customer, So if this is the case, what can one do besides beliving the agent?
3 - Being a normal customer, I would not know the internal process of these companies, I would think that they would check the paperwork first and if everything is fine, then only they will send the cheque for clearence.
Please accept my apology as it I didn't understand your previous post.
anonymous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 18:49   #57
Senior - BHPian
 
kb100's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bangy Boy!
Posts: 1,554
Thanked: 14 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
I must thank you KB for this wonderful explanation. Now let me add my views as well
1 - I also mentioned that I did my own research before going for the policy and obviously I had asked my friends, relatives etc as well.
2 - I may be wrong here and you can correct me, I think when one applies for insurance policy, agent doesn't give any document at that point of time, rather agent takes all the paper, photos cheque etc. Once company receives them and approved them, then only they send the policy to the customer, So if this is the case, what can one do besides beliving the agent?
3 - Being a normal customer, I would not know the internal process of these companies, I would think that they would check the paperwork first and if everything is fine, then only they will send the cheque for clearence.
Please accept my apology as it I didn't understand your previous post.
Actually all three are wrong

Which is why I originally asked - "Who is your Financial Advisor". Almost all of us go ask our friends and relatives what they have done - Now we are assuming that they know what they are doing. Tomorrow - should anything go wrong - who will you hold responsible? In fact in India, I have generally seen a lot of ppl basing their investment decision based on what their Chartered Accountant told them. Unfortunately no one realises that this is like asking a butcher about Brain Surgery! The CA's do not have a single paper on Investment in their course material. They are tax consultants - Period! Therefore - unless my friends and relatives are certified investment consultants, they are not qualified to give me investment advice. I will use them purely as sources of information on products that they have bought, customer service experience and such. An investment consultant is someone who is trained and practices this for a living SUCCESSFULLY!! For selling Mutual funds, Life Insurance, etc one needs to complete sepcified days of training, and pass an exam after which he/she is given a license to operate in the country. I would rather trust a full time successful professional when it comes to advise regarding my money, than anyone else.

Secondly yes you are partly right - the agent is key as in you will never know what information the agent is withholding. One must always insist on a brochure of the products you are considering - along with proof of the past track record of returns etc. You must specifically ask him what might be the document required- it varies along with Premium and Sum Assured - the larger and the more documentation becomes necessary. hallf the time the agents do not know their products/requirements completely. In this case he should have not committed the policy will get issued in 7 days. He has absolutely no way of influencing that!

Thirdly, the documents that you give together constitute a "proposal". If you read carefully the application form will clearly state that it is a 'Proposal' - a request from you asking the company to accept your risk based on the particulars you have provided. This then gets sent to the place where the risk ius assessed - it varies from company to company - most private companies have this centralised at their HQ. There typically the whole thing gets scanned, a proposal/contract number is generated , and the whole thing is uploaded into a work flow in an electronic format with this unique number- its paperless from here. Meanwhile the cheque is sent for collection . The file - in its now electronic form- hits an underwriter - or a series of underwriters (medical,fiscal,moral etc) where additional/missing requirements may be called for. In the interim your cheque might have gotten cleared and the cash is uploaded into a suspense account against your contract number. If you do not supply the documentation called fro then the company after thier specified number of days may unilaterally cancel your application and return your money to you. Else the document you provide will again go thru scanning and hit the same underwriter for his assessment. He can choose to accept, increase your premium, decrease term or sum assured, deny or modify riders, postpone the decision for 3-6 months, or deny the policy altogether. (By law no reason needs to be provided but they might and do tell you orally what went wrong.) If the policy goes thru then the system automatically checks for money - if there is money in the account then the system 'issues' the policy and transmits the file for printing. The policy docket then gets printed, and after the QC gets despatched to you . Most companies have this or a variant of this as their process. there are various other things as well but I have tried to keep it as simple as I can.

Now during month, quarter, and year ends, the flow of policies tend to be heavy and therefore things tend to get stacked. IN case the requirements are not complete, a letter asking for the missing thing is raised and the file gets shunted to the bottom of the pile again! Most companies follow a FIFO system - "First In - First Out"

I ensure that all my clients are aware fo what exactly they can expect - but the fact is most agents don't even know what or how it happens! Some companies do try to teach but most of them are unfortunately not interested in learning.

Trust this clarifies

Last edited by kb100 : 4th July 2008 at 19:03.
kb100 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4th July 2008, 21:58   #58
BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: North America
Posts: 960
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

What about medical/health insurance in India? Which companies are better than the others?
sujaylahiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th July 2008, 12:40   #59
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bengalooru
Posts: 1,471
Thanked: 7 Times
Default

I suggest be wary of any product promoted by Sachin Tendulkar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prabuddhadg View Post
If anyone is thinking of Aviva as their insurer, I say, reconsider your decision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
Now I am really fedup with all this crap and have just talked to the customer service again.
diabloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31st March 2009, 14:21   #60
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Delhi
Posts: 186
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

ok, so the best insurance in term insurance but from which provider ? LIC only? While comparing for term insurance on apnainsurance.com, I see several providers offering same coverage but the premium to be paid differs vastly. any insights into why it's like this ? is there a catch that I'm missing?

Thanks in advance
Shankyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How Fast Is Your Internet Service Provider (ISP) connection? Rehaan Gadgets, Computers & Software 945 11th August 2017 22:50
Best Auto Insurance service provider kalaks2000 Indian Car Loans & Insurance 361 29th June 2017 08:07
Which is the better Car Insurance provider sydras Indian Car Loans & Insurance 3 2nd April 2008 15:24
What Cell Provider do TB members use? S350L-E240 Shifting gears 0 17th May 2004 16:24


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 11:21.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks