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Old 13th July 2008, 18:37   #16
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When pigs fly.........

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Originally Posted by amit View Post
When will this happen in India ?
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Old 14th July 2008, 10:49   #17
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seriously, we are comparing two totally different economies, cultures and overall situations.
What has economy, culture got to do with this? It's about the law which can be just, fair and equal even in an underdeveloped economy. Besides, don't Indian's keep harping on how our culture is so much more superior then western culture?

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if 90% of population does not have access to 4 wheelers, can we keep them off the roads to let remaining 10% drive peacefully on it?
This isn't about keeping non car owners off roads. The 90% have full right to use the roads BUT that doesn't mean they can jaywalk or cycle anyhow they like and then cry that they are mowed down by rich spoilt brats.

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but this sort of thing doesn't always happen in the US. pedestrians and cyclists are also in many occasions given the benefit of the doubt.
True. But are car owners ALWAYS termed guilty for any and all accidents involving pedestrians, cyclists and bikes?

Last edited by amit : 14th July 2008 at 10:51.
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Old 14th July 2008, 19:10   #18
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Originally Posted by amit View Post
What has economy, culture got to do with this? It's about the law which can be just, fair and equal even in an underdeveloped economy. Besides, don't Indian's keep harping on how our culture is so much more superior then western culture?



This isn't about keeping non car owners off roads. The 90% have full right to use the roads BUT that doesn't mean they can jaywalk or cycle anyhow they like and then cry that they are mowed down by rich spoilt brats.
Laws are are a reflection of the needs of a society and culture. We do not have laws on homosexual rights because we have needed them on a large basis, right? neither do we have social services scouting homes to find abused children because we hardly have a serious case of REALLY abused child as in west.

what do you mean 90% have full right to roads but they can't Jaywalk or cycle anyhow they like? going by numbers, more than half of the lanes should be reserved for two wheelers and cyclists in india, don't you think?

I am totally against blaming the bigger vehicle, but if we stop expecting traffic sense of developed countries, accidents will reduce anyway. We DO NOT have enough roads and we have too many pedestrians and two wheelers to enjoy our roads. We can't not compare ourselves to americas and europe.
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Old 14th July 2008, 19:44   #19
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True. But are car owners ALWAYS termed guilty for any and all accidents involving pedestrians, cyclists and bikes?
Not guilty, but accused.

We can always fight the accusation in court. Problem is, we never will. We never can. It is less expensive, in terms of money and time, for us to say "pleading guilty your honour" and pay the fine. As an exception, Xinome, one of our members, is fighting a false accusation and there is a thread on it. (but then, he is a heavyweight - pun unintended).

The moment it becomes feasible, in terms of TIME (damn the money, it will always come and go), we will have the courage to standup and say "not guilty your honour" and fight the matter.

For this to happen, we need more courts. 15 years back, the law commission of India found that given the population and economic activity in India, india has 1/10 (one tenth) of the number of courts than we require. In past 15 years, the economic activity (and therefore, the amount of litigation) has gone up at least 4 times. Now, how many more courts would we require?

The question therefore is, how many of us realise that next time a politician comes asking for votes / donations*, we can always ask him that he should take the initiative to set up more courts. (the magistrates and lower courts, NOT the high court benches they are asking for in several places, because it is magistrates who decide these kinds of things; High courts are for politicians themselves.). A large number of us are salaried people, but a significant of us are into business, and don't deny it - we make political donations. Please ask for more courts in returns for your political donations.
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Old 31st July 2008, 12:52   #20
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Incident no. 2: Mom, Child struck by SUV crossing an east end street.

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Police said the woman had just gotten off a city bus when she pushed the stroller out from between parked cars and into the path of the SUV.
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Police said the collision occurred because the woman disregarded basic safety rules and should have crossed the street at a light or crosswalk.
Source: CTV Toronto.

In India, the headlines would be "Speeding SUV RAMS / MOWS DOWN Mother, baby daughter.

Last edited by amit : 31st July 2008 at 12:54.
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Old 31st July 2008, 13:22   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
Incident no. 2: Mom, Child struck by SUV crossing an east end street.

In India, the headlines would be "Speeding SUV RAMS / MOWS DOWN Mother, baby daughter.
Well, all things leads to use of technologies. We are far behind those developed world in terms of usage of technology in day to day work. In developed countries CCTVs are present in almost all important place. But in India we do not have so.

In developed countries everybody feels that rest of people have road sense and they follow religiously. But here we even not sure of ourselves that we have proper road sense.

One case also happened to my office colleague 2 years back in South Korea, when he tried to cross road where there was not zebra crossing. Result a speeding car came and hit him and he died on the spot.

You say, whom to blame ?
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Old 31st July 2008, 13:23   #22
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Why do we even bother discussing such issues knowing fully well something like this will never happen in India.
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Old 19th October 2008, 16:04   #23
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Incident No. 3

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It sounds like the motorcyclist drifted a little bit over the centre line coming in for the last curve before making his way towards the Don Valley," he said.

The 32-year-old novice motorcyclist sideswiped one car and then hit the following northbound car head-on. He was pronounced dead at the scene by paramedics
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Police did a full reconstruction of the accident.
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Police say they aren't likely to file charges against the other drivers.
Source: CTV News.
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Old 19th October 2008, 16:15   #24
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amit, you are giving examples from a country that expects people to follow the rules. When people break them, they get injured or worse die. They cannot punish the ones following the rules.
In India, most do not follow the rules, so most people are expecting trouble all the time.
So nothing odd in it. And why should we expect this to happen in India?
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Old 19th October 2008, 17:03   #25
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amit, you are giving examples from a country that expects people to follow the rules.
A lot of people are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread. This is not about Indian roads and road users being as good as western ones. Accidents happen and they can happen anywhere.

If you notice the common thing running all through the above 3 incidents are not that accidents happened but the way the investigation was done by the cops and the way the media reported these accidents.

In India, the moment an accident happens, the swankier car gets blamed. In India, cops arrive at the reason of the accident in 5 seconds flat! What happened to innocent until proven guilty? The moment an accident happens here, 'eyewitnesses' and cops jump up and say it was overspeeding, rash and negligent drivng and that the driver of the swankier car was drunk. This without conducting any breath analyser tests. This, after the cops themselves said that in their campaign against drunk driving they were shocked to find that it was more two wheeler riders that were drunk as opposed to the widely held belif that it's the rich spoilt brat driving a car thats always drunk. Also, if you are poor in India then your words carry more weight and it's assumed that you are speaking the truth. The poor car driver can cry himself hoarse but it's always his fault.

Take a look at the way the media has reported all the three accidents and compare it to the way our media does it. If the third accident happened in India the breaking news would flash "Speeding car hits biker." Again, the car driver is at fault and it's decided he caused the accident. How did they determine that the car was at fault? Did the courts or the cops say that? We are always rushing to be the first to say what or who caused the accident.

Look at the cops on our roads. At every traffic light we can see cops standing to catch people who jump lights. They just don't care if people are cutting lanes, or blocking left turning vehicles out. The only traffic offence in India is jumping red lights and illegal parking. There could be a traffic jam before the traffic light due to idiotic drivers but the cops don't give a damn and don't even attempt to do anything to clear the jam. Over here, cops think their job is to challan drivers. Smooth traffic flow doesn't seem to be their responsiblity!

India is probably the only country in the world where you will see sign boards saying "Accident prone spot." Thats it. Government's responsiblity ends.

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And why should we expect this to happen in India?
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Old 19th October 2008, 17:12   #26
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Why can't we look at the other side:

We know Indian traffic and public road sense inside out, and if we make provisions in our own driving we can save 90% of accidents. It's not about who's right of way it was! If you can avoid it then why not? [of course that should not be the basis of filing charges against you]

Example - You are driving at night - and you know people cross the road at that point b'coz there's a market nearby, but you don't care and end up hitting a guy who was crossing the road out of turn.

You could have avoided that, b'coz you knew. Right you shouldn't be charged for that, but you will be charged in India.

Life in India has its workarounds and not so hard to follow.


Out of the 10% remaining if some incident happens that you couldn't have avoided, even in India the case would be clearly in your favor, well say 90% out of the 10%.

Remaining 1% will be wrong convictions.

So don't try to live an American Life in here! Just know the Indian ways and everything works.
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Old 19th October 2008, 17:33   #27
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A few days back I was at a petrol station filling up my SX4. A lady driven pink Zen Estilo drives into the petrol pump and suddenly I hear the engine screaming and the car hits the fuel filling station! Sure it was at slow speed and the only damage was to the car in the form of a minor dent on it's bonnet but this is the standard of drivers in our country. As for the driver, she was absolutely cool about it. Calmly reversed the car and parked in straight for filling up fuel. Didn't even bother to get down to check the damage to her own car or to the petrol bunk.

Today morning on the way to work I am driving in the right most lane going towards the turbhe flyover just after Star Motors. There is a slight curve in the road ahead. I see three people walking down in the right most lane. Mind you, they were not walking in one line behind each other but they were walking together. The lane next to mine is occupied. I flash my lights. None of them moved away. I honk. None of them move. To add to that, they have the cheek to look at me eye to eye as if I am driving on the pavement! Left with no choice, I have to squeeze into the middle lane, the car behind me honks and I drive away. Question is, what would have happened if this happened in the night and the driver didn't spot any of them due to our fabulously lit roads?

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So don't try to live an American Life in here!
American life? We are merely trying to live a normal life! Is it too much to expect that there wouldn't be pedestrians strolling about in the right most lane? How can people be so unaware of their surroundings? Not walking in the right most lane doesn't need to be taught. It's common sense!
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Old 19th October 2008, 18:01   #28
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Amit bhai,Its true there are people like the lady you saw in the estilo who bang their own car and don't bother to even look at the damage simply because they either don't care or feel embarrassed.
I too have experienced a same situation like you, the worst thing is that people do not even accept what they are doing is wrong and blindly walk in the middle of the road thinking they are doing nothing wrong.One of my colleagues used to always carry some extra water with him to throw on such people untill once he accidently threw water on a cop.
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Old 19th October 2008, 18:33   #29
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On a highway stretch that passes through a small village a cyclist looked left turned right and we ended up hitting him. After 6 hours at the police station the FIR says that we did the rash driving although several eye-witnesses and the cyclist himself accepted the fault.
Obviously there were local goondas etc who ensured that this happened this way.
No justice for anyone as of now!
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Old 19th October 2008, 19:06   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit View Post
How can people be so unaware of their surroundings? Not walking in the right most lane doesn't need to be taught. It's common sense!
Exactly! Now I'm sorry I'm saying this in public, but majority Indians lack basic common sense, can't you see that in the country and its systems that have developed in 61 years of complete freedom.

Now, those who have the sense, need to understand that we are a billion people here and to live here we need to make provisions [something like the one you make for doubtful debtors] for the others. And thats how it'll always be.

It's not just your stray pedestrians, but the whole chain right from the law makers to the implementers to the enforcers to the adjudicators who lack common sense.

Amit, you are right in whatever you are saying, and no one can dispute that. But the question here is much bigger than a simple right or wrong.
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