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Old 4th May 2011, 12:56   #166
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

My friend is(again) looking to do an MBA. Since he asked me for advice and I did not have much idea on it I am posting it here.
This guy is also a software engineer (6 years of exp) and is earning around 12 in a MNC. We were in college together and since way back in 2003 he has been trying.
He has been able to get around 92 and 94 percentile during his numerous attempts.
But he wants to do it from premier institute like IIMs.

Now he is a very average guy with average grades. Having no so called extra curricular activities which are much valued in admission process as he tell me. Why do they matter beats me. He never was any gold medallist or anything like that. We both were backbenchers.

He is married. His wife is working. And he is on his way to be a parent. He has got that itch to give it one more shot before he is too old.

What is bothering him is that if it will be worth it. By 2014 he is confident of taking his salary to at least somewhere around 17. Will the MBA from a institute like IIM will get him a job with salary more than that? He is also factoring in a loan of around 15 lac which will have to be paid back. He does not want to let go of his exp in IT and hence says that he wont go into Finance or marketing but will return back to IT only. Will IT jobs pay that much to make it worthwhile? And is 6+ years of exp a good thing? He says that IIM's want most of the candidates to be between 2 to 3 yrs of exp. Says that it means that they can be placed across a bigger spectrum of companies where they can start almost from a scratch and grow. Not so with oldies.

Start dropping your 2 cents guys. Any passouts from IIM here?

He is not a bhpian but I have passed the link to him. He will keep watching and posting questions via me.

Last edited by download2live : 4th May 2011 at 12:59.
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Old 4th May 2011, 13:04   #167
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

what sort of profile is his current work. If you're looking at IT , his future will probably be on the BA/Consultant kind of role. that sort of salary is achievable , but only at the bigger institutes ( =99+%ile from cat with balanced scores).
6 is very, very rare, but not impossible. he can try, but tell him not to get his hopes up
in addition, why not an exec MBA/distance programme? with a wife & kids, full time may not be feasible
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Old 4th May 2011, 13:13   #168
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by download2live View Post
My friend is(again) looking to do an MBA. Since he asked me for advice and I did not have much idea on it I am posting it here.
This guy is also a software engineer (6 years of exp) and is earning around 12 in a MNC. We were in college together and since way back in 2003 he has been trying.
He has been able to get around 92 and 94 percentile during his numerous attempts.
But he wants to do it from premier institute like IIMs.

Now he is a very average guy with average grades. Having no so called extra curricular activities which are much valued in admission process as he tell me. Why do they matter beats me. He never was any gold medallist or anything like that. We both were backbenchers.

He is married. His wife is working. And he is on his way to be a parent. He has got that itch to give it one more shot before he is too old.

What is bothering him is that if it will be worth it. By 2014 he is confident of taking his salary to at least somewhere around 17. Will the MBA from a institute like IIM will get him a job with salary more than that? He is also factoring in a loan of around 15 lac which will have to be paid back. He does not want to let go of his exp in IT and hence says that he wont go into Finance or marketing but will return back to IT only. Will IT jobs pay that much to make it worthwhile? And is 6+ years of exp a good thing? He says that IIM's want most of the candidates to be between 2 to 3 yrs of exp. Says that it means that they can be placed across a bigger spectrum of companies where they can start almost from a scratch and grow. Not so with oldies.

Start dropping your 2 cents guys. Any passouts from IIM here?

He is not a bhpian but I have passed the link to him. He will keep watching and posting questions via me.
I'm not an IIM guy, but an MBA, nonetheless.

1.I am of the opinion that the more xperience you have, the more you know what to learn during your MBA.
I did mine as a fesher, and had to do another PG after 5 years.
Plus, years of experience doesnt matter.My FIL did MBA from FMS after 25+ years of experience.

2. An MBA will enable him to move from ops side(i dont know if this is the correct term in IT context, but you know what i mean) to management.There IS a mark/fin side to IT as well.

3. lack of the "thappa", so to speak, does cause a person to hit a glass ceiling in terms of growth in the mgmt side of things.This is unfair sometimes, but true.No matter how good a manager you are.

4. Go through the A+ institutes in india/abroad where he can apply.Dont be myopic for IIMs.Check out lateral placement figures.They will be much higher than younger passouts from these institutes with 0,1-3 years experience.

But just ask your friend to be VERY focussed as to what he wants to come out with, post the course, in terms of learning/skills.
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Old 4th May 2011, 13:39   #169
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

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Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
but only at the bigger institutes ( =99+%ile from cat with balanced scores).
He is gunning for IIMs only.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
6 is very, very rare, but not impossible. he can try, but tell him not to get his hopes up
He is sad now. Much to his annoyance I suggested him to quote reduced years of exp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
in addition, why not an exec MBA/distance programme? with a wife & kids, full time may not be feasible
He wants to have alumni network. Also wants hostel life once more. (Maybe he is going through Mid life crisis)

He is a regular code monkey like me. Not in any managerial position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
I'm not an IIM guy, but an MBA, nonetheless.

1.I am of the opinion that the more xperience you have, the more you know what to learn during your MBA.
I did mine as a fesher, and had to do another PG after 5 years.
Plus, years of experience doesnt matter.My FIL did MBA from FMS after 25+ years of experience.
His hopes are up again. Says Respect to your FIL to take up a course after such long years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
4. Go through the A+ institutes in india/abroad where he can apply.Dont be myopic for IIMs.Check out lateral placement figures.They will be much higher than younger passouts from these institutes with 0,1-3 years experience.

But just ask your friend to be VERY focussed as to what he wants to come out with, post the course, in terms of learning/skills.
What is "lateral placement figures"? Is it bagging the job while doing internship and hence no need to go through campus placements?

Last edited by download2live : 4th May 2011 at 13:40.
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Old 4th May 2011, 13:53   #170
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

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What is "lateral placement figures"? Is it bagging the job while doing internship and hence no need to go through campus placements?
That is a PPO(pre-placement offer).
Which basically means that the person got an offer from the company he did his projects/trainings.
It could be lateral, or direct.more on that:

Lateral placement is when a company is hiring people from colleges as management trainees, and runs into someone,say your friend, and figures, based on experience/acumen or whatever criteria, to offer him a lateral entry into their organization as a manager.
so thats a 1-2 level jump, plus the salary/perks gains.

A lot of people i know didnt get laterals with 4-5 years prior experience, but on the flip side, a lot of people with 1-2 years got placed higher.

from a recruiter's POV, he saves on training costs etc.
Ideally, laterals happen within the same industry as the experience, with a lot of add-on knowledge/value-add done by way of learning in your MBA.

EDIT: i'd suggest your friend go through pagalguy or some such forum.Its of tremendous help.
Salary figures etc can be gleaned quite accurately over there.

Last edited by mayankk : 4th May 2011 at 14:13.
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Old 4th May 2011, 14:10   #171
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

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He is gunning for IIMs only.
Thats my point. Its easy to say that you're gunning for IIMs only. I gave up waiting for that elusive IIM call after 4 years and settled for a slightly lower rung institute. I had 99%ile plus each time, but screwed up with the cutoffs.

The reason why I recommended curbing his enthusiasm was essentially because its just that hard getting into such an institute. if he has a good track record though, all he needs is just some luck.

PS: Take placement figures with a pinch of salt. While IIM's should be able to give your friend a salary worth his investment, the lower rung ones probably will not( in spite of their claimed salaries)

Last edited by greenhorn : 4th May 2011 at 14:11.
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Old 4th May 2011, 14:14   #172
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

I am not yet an MBA, but will be in a couple of years. The following are my observations:

- Do not be fixated with the IIMs. They are overrated. Other colleges like FMS and XLRI have a strong reputation (at least in India) and rival top IIMs in placements etc.

- Look at executive programs. They usually require 5+ years of work experience. I am not sure about the CAT percentile requirements for the course. PG would be the best source for this information.

- My dad did his MBA from FMS after 8-9 years of working. Look at part time MBAs as an option as well. They take ~3 years, but can be handled better with family and work life.

- CAT becomes more of a game of chance every year. Please do not pin your hopes on just CAT.

- From what I know, IT placements range between IT Sales and Product/Project Management. Those are the kinds of positions that would open up for your friend. He can look around in his own company to get an idea of the pay packages on offer.

How many companies has he changed? Where is he based?

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Extra-curricular activities aren't essential. Please look at it as a way of differentiating yourself from other candidates. All you need to do is convince the professor that you bring more to the table than the other bunch of people with you. Work knowledge, domain knowledge, and real-life experiences can be much bigger motivation factors for taking a candidate than quizzing or debating.

Last edited by EssYouWe : 4th May 2011 at 14:16.
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:26   #173
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankk View Post
EDIT: i'd suggest your friend go through pagalguy or some such forum.Its of tremendous help.
Salary figures etc can be gleaned quite accurately over there.
Will ask him to do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
I had 99%ile plus each time, but screwed up with the cutoffs.

The reason why I recommended curbing his enthusiasm was essentially because its just that hard getting into such an institute. if he has a good track record though, all he needs is just some luck.

PS: Take placement figures with a pinch of salt. While IIM's should be able to give your friend a salary worth his investment, the lower rung ones probably will not( in spite of their claimed salaries)
He is going totally mathematical over this one. Was calculating the inflation adjusted returns of the course along with the EMI for the educational loan he has to pay.
So I think he won't be going for any lower placed institutes.

And hey, 99+% and no calls or calls not converted?

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Originally Posted by EssYouWe View Post

How many companies has he changed? Where is he based?


EDIT: Extra-curricular activities aren't essential. Please look at it as a way of differentiating yourself from other candidates. All you need to do is convince the professor that you bring more to the table than the other bunch of people with you. Work knowledge, domain knowledge, and real-life experiences can be much bigger motivation factors for taking a candidate than quizzing or debating.
He is in his 3rd company in period of 6 and half years. Location: Bangalore.

Nice clarification about the extra curricular activities.
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:31   #174
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

Quote:
Originally Posted by download2live View Post
My friend is(again) looking to do an MBA. Since he asked me for advice and I did not have much idea on it I am posting it here.
This guy is also a software engineer (6 years of exp) and is earning around 12 in a MNC. We were in college together and since way back in 2003 he has been trying.
He has been able to get around 92 and 94 percentile during his numerous attempts.
But he wants to do it from premier institute like IIMs.

Now he is a very average guy with average grades. Having no so called extra curricular activities which are much valued in admission process as he tell me. Why do they matter beats me. He never was any gold medallist or anything like that. We both were backbenchers.

He is married. His wife is working. And he is on his way to be a parent. He has got that itch to give it one more shot before he is too old.

What is bothering him is that if it will be worth it. By 2014 he is confident of taking his salary to at least somewhere around 17. Will the MBA from a institute like IIM will get him a job with salary more than that? He is also factoring in a loan of around 15 lac which will have to be paid back. He does not want to let go of his exp in IT and hence says that he wont go into Finance or marketing but will return back to IT only. Will IT jobs pay that much to make it worthwhile? And is 6+ years of exp a good thing? He says that IIM's want most of the candidates to be between 2 to 3 yrs of exp. Says that it means that they can be placed across a bigger spectrum of companies where they can start almost from a scratch and grow. Not so with oldies.

Start dropping your 2 cents guys. Any passouts from IIM here?

He is not a bhpian but I have passed the link to him. He will keep watching and posting questions via me.
Getting into IIM's requires luck apart from hardwork. Going from 94 %tile to 99%ile is the toughest thing to do. Since he is working he might not find enough time to study like others get. I know a number of poeple who have given CAT number of times - some because they want a better job, some because they want status aka IIM ka thappa which does make a difference and some because they want to learn more about management studies. I have a friend in IIM Bangalore who tells me that some of his batchmates have left jobs of 30 lakhs just to come to IIM's.

Education wise all IIM's might not be the best. Institutes like FMS, XLRI are also known for their academics. As far as placements are concerned you can be sure of one thing - The highest figure can be acheived in IIM's that too not all but Ahmedabad, BAngalroe and Calcutta. The average salaries of IIM's and institutes of FMS and XLRI might not be very different but its about how high can one achieve. You are going to meet the best of the best in IIM's.

There are people who try year after year chasing the IIM dream but do not succeed. It all depends on what you want in life. If MBA is the only thing then work as hard as you can. Some also quit their jobs so that they can seriously study for CAT. But since your friend is married I do not know if it is advisable or not.

P.S- For anything related to MBA tell your friend to register on www.pagalguy.com (great site for MBA people). I also have a ebook which contains stories of how people struggled and managed to clear CAT and other exams. These are nothing but experiences of members of Pagalguy community who have cleared MBA entrance exams. PM me if you are interested.

Last edited by Saanil : 4th May 2011 at 15:33.
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Old 4th May 2011, 15:32   #175
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

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And hey, 99+% and no calls or calls not converted?
Oh don't even get me started on this! IIMs are increasingly giving weight-age to acads (10, 12, Grads) and work experience. However, the cutoff's remain. Usually 95%ile+ in each section ensures a qualifying for consideration. It is then that they start looking at your acads and work ex before calling candidates for interviews.

Quote:
He is in his 3rd company in period of 6 and half years. Location: Bangalore.

Nice clarification about the extra curricular activities.
Do ask him to consider future job responsibilities, and if he is even interested in moving that way.
A lot of passionate coders prefer the coding part over the IT sales part.

The salary should be in the range of 17-20 lacs for sure from any premier b-school in India. Of course this is all considering a no-recession/high-growth period.

EDIT: The high legendary packages are on offer only for the top 10% of the guys at IIM A,B,C. Rest is all riff-raff and everyone gets about the same jobs with the same pay. :P
Going to A, B, C is all about allowing yourself a shot at glory!

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Old 4th May 2011, 15:52   #176
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

ask him if he has considered the following.
1. Oppurtunity cost of being in at IT Job ( loss of cash flows for the next two years)
2. Salary he would get at the end of two years in said IT job if he switched to a higher paying job, and switched again at the end of two years
3. The loan he is about to take
4. Interest on #1 & #3
5. Spread of salaries he might get out of a B School ( discount reported numbers by 10~30% to get CTC, and again to get cash in hand and then again to discount variable pay. (that % dependent on the sort of co you are looking at )
6. thankfully edu loans have lower rates, especially only Simple interest during study + 6 months ( moratorium)
7. His required rate of return ?

And I'm not even a fin major
I'm a 4+ workex guy who, after a year in a 15ish ranked institute feels that it was a bad deal. I only did it because of the same non monetary benefits mentioned - network, going back to college etc

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Old 4th May 2011, 16:01   #177
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Default Re: Career Advice needed - MBA or work?

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He is gunning for IIMs only.
Well, IIMs don't give out MBA degree. Ask him to look beyond IIMs, and beyond IIPM too. There are lots of second rung B-schools that suit his purpose pretty well.

For a person who wants to remain in IT, going to IIM at any cost doesn't make sense. He is not looking for a career change, just a leg-up within his career path. IIM is best for career change, but to get a leg-up within a career, any good B-school will do. He needs MBA for the knowledge, and not networking.

I started my MBA after 11 years of experience. Took me 5 years since I took two year break in between when I changed countries.
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Old 1st July 2011, 13:12   #178
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Arrow Good path for a Banking Career after B.Com?

Howdy BHPians

Created a new thread on this but re-posting here at the request of mods (didn't see this thread at first)

My query is not strictly MBA or Work - here goes:

I just cleared my B.Com with 77% aggregate marks. I got a placement in December last year with an accounting firm in Cochin. The job starts in 2 weeks.

I feel that this is not the job for me in the long run as it is a BPO. I'm interested in a career in the banking sector. Problem is that I'm 20 years old now and almost all the bank exams require the applicant to be 21 years or older. I turn 21 after a month and a half.

Now I have 2 options - refuse the job and go for bank exams at the very next opportunity -or- take the job for one year and go for bank tests around this time next year.

I'm inclined towards taking the job as I could use the work experience (I have none as of now) and the $$ - but I could use inputs from you guys.

If I take this job, I'm looking to do part time courses which will help me in a Banking career. I searched around and found a course - Diploma in Banking & Finance offered by the Indian Institute of Banking & Finance.
Will this course help me? Will it be recognized by Banks when applying for a job? Also, please tell me about other courses related to Banking sector?
I was not keen on taking an MBA right after B.Com as the trend here was to go for it immediately after graduating. I always thought it was best to be pursued after gaining some experience? Can an MBA help in a banking career? The MBA boat has sailed for me for this year as admissions are over - but I could use your suggestions whether it is viable in the future?

Thank you for your inputs!
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Old 11th July 2011, 18:20   #179
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Interesting Article: Doctor of Business Administration - DBA - The New MBA?
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Old 11th July 2011, 23:56   #180
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Default Re: Good path for a Banking Career after B.Com?

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I feel that this is not the job for me in the long run as it is a BPO. I'm interested in a career in the banking sector. Problem is that I'm 20 years old now and almost all the bank exams require the applicant to be 21 years or older. I turn 21 after a month and a half.

Now I have 2 options - refuse the job and go for bank exams at the very next opportunity -or- take the job for one year and go for bank tests around this time next year.

I'm inclined towards taking the job as I could use the work experience (I have none as of now) and the $$ - but I could use inputs from you guys.

If I take this job, I'm looking to do part time courses which will help me in a Banking career.
The particular job is not something you are interested in the long run and you are going in with an aim to quit in an year. And simultaneously you want to prepare for Bank Tests as well as do a banking related course. Obviously you won't be able to concentrate on the new job and may end up looking like an idiot or moron. And depending on the company you are joining and your manager(s) you may have a tough time.
The question you need to ask is, will you be able to give your best for bank test preparations with the work pressure? If you are confident, go for the job, if not, do some part-time course and start preparing for the test. An year's experience in an un-related industry wouldn't count in the long run.

Edit:-
Just got this HBR article from Facebook. Not completely relevant but still adds to my above point of work relate stress.

Last edited by Jaguar : 11th July 2011 at 23:59.
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