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Old 22nd July 2009, 01:30   #106
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i'd say you should go for Generic MBA! Once your over with 2-3 semesters you'd know what exactly suits specialisation wise.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 11:54   #107
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This is an very interesting discussion. let me jump in and share my view.

1. Today, the threshold of education has increased. Once upon a time even a ITI Diploma was good enough to get a job in a reputed company. Today even being a B.Tech is not good enough. The main reason is dimensions of the Technology and knowledge has expanded tremendously and Academics has not been able to catch up with the Industry. Hence the Knowledge Gap among the freshers is very high w.r.t. what is really needed in the Industry. This is true for Engineering or Science or Commerce or Business Management

2. Employability is a mixture of Education, Skillsets, Attitude, Experience, network, knowhow and potential value addition one brings to the job and the company. Today a fresher is not high scoring on one or several of these attributes. So generally human tendency is that, if i am not good in this one then i will compensate in other attribute. e.g. What if I do not have a business accumen or experience, it is okay, i will compensate it with Business Education. This tendency will make any one go for higher education w/o practicing or applying the previous education to use or developing the balanced strengths on all above attributes.

3. Employablity is also based on Supply vs Damand Gap. During pre Y2K period anyone who had good maths marks would be made job offers by IT companies to get into a Y2K project. Today similar guys would find it tougher to get even the similar jobs. Several People (MBAs including) would it difficult to get their "Dream jobs" due to this Demand Vs Supply situation. Today there are several Business Schools or MBA institutes etc producing several MBAs. The Industry must have so many business jobs to offer as well.

4. Today most of the MBA education has become " Awareness of Tools". I had a prevelidge of teaching in a premier B-School in Pune for 2 years as a visiting faculty. One of the thing i noticed is that the students are extreemly busy from morning 7:30 AM till late evening some time beyond 10:30 PM as well doing assignments, attending lectures, making reports, organizing events etc. But what i missed there was the "Hands on Experience in Analyzing a Business SItuation/Problem and working to resolve it" . Theoritically analyzing a case study is different than real business situation involving real people, products, competition, egos, probelms, finances, time factor etc. The Tools (e.g. Analytical, Strategy, Communication etc) will help only in structuring the thoughts and ideas. But they will not bring in fresh thoughts and ideas on their own. for that ones needs experience, maturity and previous exposure to diverse business situations, culture, way of working etc.

5. It is not possible to get comprensive business experience before doing MBA. every industry, market sector, country, factory, business group, project team or for that matter a business situation is different. Hence a prospective MBA student can make efforts to inderstand a business enviornment, how a company/organization/team works, what are the drivers of profitability, what is the meaning of competition, how relative politics works in a team/company, how different people think about a probelms / situation in a different way etc. This can not be achieved (in my view) if one does not work in a job for 2-3-4 years. More over the business concepts taught in the B-School makes more sense after one has gone through these learnings hands on.

6. MBA also does not mean an individual would be a successful business manager. E.g. Tata/Birla/Ambani etc were not MBAs. Managing a Business successfully needs business accumen, ability to take risks, doing right things at right time, ability to influence people arround you, solve probelms of others and some luck. Being a Professional Business Manager would need these skills as well. I am not sure MBA provides many of these skills, but MBA certainly provides tools for some of these things.

Lastly, I was a techie for first 10 years of my working life, Last 5 years, i have been in a business role and everyday, i learn new aspects of the business. During these 5 years have studied in IIM as well as a leading UK Business school. I am sure, i would not understood the lessons if i had studied them immediately after my engineering.

Sorry about the long post.

Last edited by StarVegabond : 22nd July 2009 at 11:57.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 12:50   #108
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Originally Posted by Maverick5490 View Post
Now the negatives, the syllabus is decades old,
Hmm, that's an interesting comment. In my opinion MBA subjects are timeless, most of the concepts were developed over centuries, even millennium. So, why would a decade old syllabus be a problem?
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Old 22nd July 2009, 13:06   #109
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Well put starvegabond. Completely agree with you.
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Old 22nd July 2009, 14:55   #110
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So, why would a decade old syllabus be a problem?
IMO, big problem. Look at the pace of change around you Samurai. It is accelerating. New technologies have created so many businesses unheard of even a year before. Syllabi can never keep pace with that, granted, still there is a huge disconnect. And they still teach you Porter's five forces in b-school. You still get examples of typewriter's in the age of PC. Forget hearing a word about facebook, or cloud computing, or adwords, or SFDC, even SOX. Business schools should not be teaching "basics". They are important, yes, but b-schools are about application of those basics in the real world, and the applications have changed, they are unrecognizable from a year before. There are examples all around in all kinds of businesses- airlines (9/11), telecom (convergence), advertising (online), IT (too many to name), compliance (SOX). Apart from Business Law, I guess. That is as slow moving as time itself, I guess. *****End of Rant*****
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Old 22nd July 2009, 15:33   #111
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I will return to this thread later to comment in a more detailed manner - especially to Samurai's thoughts, which are truly valid but not all encompassing (they'd better be valid, he's very experienced!).

But in the meanwhile, just wanted to drop in a word that good B-schools' syllabus is never really "decades old". The tenets and fundamentals remain the same that were developed decades ago, yes but the cases and their applications change every single year. Yes, every year. During my time in b-school we learnt cases that were still live in their particular companies. Between 2005-07, we handled and analyzed cases ranging from 1963 to 2007 - one of them was on a product portfolio revamp for which the category head of business came down to sit with us for the final presentations.

Of course, this is only valid in the Tier-I b-schools in India, but then that's the whole point of doing a good MBA. There is a WHOLE different discussion here - that of the difference between a good MBA and a run-of-the-mill one. Every year, India generates more than 100,000 MBA grads (I think that's a low estimate), out of whom only ~3000 are properly equipped to deal with business or real-life situations - leave alone experience et al.

But as I said, that's a different discussion altogether.

Cheers!
Payne

PS: It's easier to repeat to yourself that there are no "generalizations" when it comes to business or business-schools.
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Old 14th August 2009, 16:27   #112
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Default Help : Full time MBA or Part time MBA for Fresher.

This is for me.
I have completed my graduation in June. Have a very minor work experience and currently not on job. I had appeared for GCET and scored 203. I am not talking a lot about GCET as not everyone is aware of all the exam.

Now I want to shift from IT field to management field, so obviously I am considering MBA. I am not able to get admission in any reasonably good institute from my GCET score that is good for MCA but not MBA. I was able to secure admission in MCA, but did not want to continue in IT.

Lets consider myself as fresher. Question is Distance learning from Symbiosis or ICFAI or going in for full time MBA. Full time MBA I am not getting admission at a good institute. A new institute is opening in A'bad on 24th. The problem is that I will be in the first batch, so obviously I am not sure of recognition of this college and not aware of placement it can provide.
I could make out from my experience including college project ( one of the female project member :-) :-) ) that I am better at management and good at planning and handling notorious conditions ( one male team member ).
Given this, I realized that I can do better in MBA.
This is understanding that MBA is not equal to free lunch.

Tradegy is that I cannot appear for CAT. My score of 12th is 44% ( excluding trials ).

My plans are :
Go for distance learning, strengthen C++, Java and C# langugages. This way I will ready with either BCA ( in worst case ) and MBA. I might as well end up with a job if I am doing part time MBA. But that job will not be core field like coding.

What will you recommend me : Full time MBA or Part Time MBA.

PS : Going out of country is out of option. I will be 23 on 26-Aug-2009. I cannot afford to spend one more year, already lost two in 12th. BCA is from MSU, Vadodara with 58%.

I have read reviews that distance MBA = joke. No jobs no value. Go for full time MBA.
The institute where I am getting admission for full time MBA is asking for Rs. 5.5 lakh fees for two years. At the end of two years the total expense including my stay in A'bad will go to almost Rs. 7.5 lakh ( all expenses including transportation ). I am not finding it worth to put in so much money and time in institute that is just coming up.
Symbiosis is a reputed institute and it will cost less to me.

What would you recommend me ? Full time MBA ( at a new institute that is inaugurating on 24 aug ) or Part time MBA at a reputed institute.

Last edited by aaggoswami : 14th August 2009 at 16:29.
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Old 14th August 2009, 16:52   #113
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Full time is what i would suggest, part time MBA is good for internal growth in a company.. if you have work experience your best bet would be to go for a Executive program MBA of 1 year in a reputed college.. if you have no work experience full time is the way to go... irrespective of what college you will do your PG from.. what you will do for yourself will matter more
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Old 14th August 2009, 18:32   #114
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I suggest you take up a job and think about this a couple of years down the line. If you had got admission to a reputed institute, I would have suggested you to take up that option, but no point in spending money on some unknown institute. There is no use in doing a part time MBA right away since you'd probably not gain anything from it.
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Old 14th August 2009, 19:02   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Now I want to shift from IT field to management field, so obviously I am considering MBA. I am not able to get admission in any reasonably good institute from my GCET score that is good for MCA but not MBA. I was able to secure admission in MCA, but did not want to continue in IT.

My plans are :
Go for distance learning, strengthen C++, Java and C# langugages. This way I will ready with either BCA ( in worst case ) and MBA. I might as well end up with a job if I am doing part time MBA. But that job will not be core field like coding.
these are conflicting statements. Also, I will warn you that if shifting to management from IT is your way of escaping from work (i.e. move up to mgmt role in It company), it's not good for your career. However if you want to move to general management, finance, HR etc, this approcah makes sense.

two options that you have:
1. MBA now: if you can do it from a good institute, you can get a good consultant position involving a lot of calculations and risk taking.

2. MBA after 5 years: If you have a good industry experience, you can expect to get a job at a higher level with more of decision making roles.

part time /full time. well, there are no real part time MBAs as far as i know in india. most of them are correspondence. If you can find a course that has weekend/evening classes, it will be valued. Distance learning will always be a joke because we value certificates more than the education or learnings.
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Old 14th August 2009, 19:31   #116
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Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
I suggest you take up a job and think about this a couple of years down the line. If you had got admission to a reputed institute, I would have suggested you to take up that option, but no point in spending money on some unknown institute. There is no use in doing a part time MBA right away since you'd probably not gain anything from it.
Thanks!
Its not reputed institute, but faculty is good ( well all of them will speak this ).
I will now wait till august 18 where in there is third round of counseling.
Regarding job, I dont want to continue in this field. Hence I am getting desperate to shift field.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorpsycho View Post
Full time is what i would suggest, part time MBA is good for internal growth in a company.. if you have work experience your best bet would be to go for a Executive program MBA of 1 year in a reputed college.. if you have no work experience full time is the way to go... irrespective of what college you will do your PG from.. what you will do for yourself will matter more
Yes, dad is suggesting full time only. Serious confusion is on my head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vivekiny2k View Post

a) these are conflicting statements. Also, I will warn you that if shifting to management from IT is your way of escaping from work (i.e. move up to mgmt role in It company), it's not good for your career. However if you want to move to general management, finance, HR etc, this approcah makes sense.

b) two options that you have:
1. MBA now: if you can do it from a good institute, you can get a good consultant position involving a lot of calculations and risk taking.

2. MBA after 5 years: If you have a good industry experience, you can expect to get a job at a higher level with more of decision making roles.

part time /full time. well, there are no real part time MBAs as far as i know in india. most of them are correspondence. If you can find a course that has weekend/evening classes, it will be valued. Distance learning will always be a joke because we value certificates more than the education or learnings.
a) I am not interested in IT field anymore. Simply not. I am simply not interested in working in IT company even in management field. That is why I am not involved in any job to avoid confusion of people that is similar to what you have i.e. escaping from work.
The six month project that I had was real world and college was just not involved. We were left in open and worked our way out. Here is where I realized that I am better at management. Two team members were not good at management and the other one was notorious. Had to control him.
This gave me an indication that natural tilt is more towards management than core IT field jobs.

b)
1) I am sure of consultants who can give me an opportunity. This is not the main issue. But matter is whether I will be able to learn or not. College mein to nahi padhate, khud padhna padta hai is what I hear from everyone. Then why go to college. I am in search on institution that can atleast offer some reasonable faculty whose sole job is to give guidance.

2) This is not what I am considering.
Why :
On april 15th 2006, I was returning from GUJCET exam ( compulsory after 12th ). First paper got over at 12:30 pm. Next paper was at 4:30 pm. Just outside the gate, my Spirit's main stand got stuck in some pothole and my left knee was damaged. Went home, despite the pain came back to give exam at 4:30 ( there is a painful long description but not now ).
They bony cartilage between two bones that is to absorb shock was damaged. Could not appear for AIEEE, so could not enter CAI ( Canadian Automotive Institute, right now its called IICS International Institute of Canadian Studies ).

I am already with those born in 1989 and I am 1986. At two places for job I told " you are from Godhra riot batch, you are promoted ".
That exam is another disaster where I have lost 20 marks because I was not given supplementary on time. The day bogie was burned, I was appearing for my 10th Std. Type exam. The rest of exams scheduled after the type exam were obviously postponed.
Our exams were in April and at other places like Rajkot it was taken in March itself.
So people consider me as a promoted person.

I have already lost two jobs because of this factor alone. This 10th and 12th are bottle necks.

I have described all this just to indicate that I am mentally too stressed out to go for MBA after 5 years work experience.


Will keep the thread updated on what I decide.

Thanks for the replies!

Last edited by aaggoswami : 14th August 2009 at 19:44.
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Old 2nd September 2009, 23:25   #117
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Okay, this isn't really a mba vs work question but more of an India vs abroad question.
I have a btech and have been working for a little over 2 years. I am working as a process control engineer (current take home ~ 65k per month). I certainly want to quit this job and move into management for three reasons:
(1)I am sick of doing technical work in a company.
(2)Decently paying technical jobs are few
(3)Existence of the proverbial glass ceiling for technical employees. And even if I do become some sort of a chief technical guy, I wouldn't enjoy that profile.

A US MBA is out of the question because of my extraordinarily bad acads in college, and my profile isn't anything great either. I can probably manage a 740+ GMAT score, but I do not think that is going to be enough.

I am stuck between two choices:

(Option 1) Most of my immediate and distant family has Australian citizenship. My younger bro and I have permanent residency there. One of the options that I have is moving to Australia, do a marketing/mba kind of a course and start working there. I do not have to worry about things like Visa. Normally in Australia, if you have the right to work, jobs are relatively easy to find.
(Option 2) I am quite confident that I can get an admit from one of the top 10 B-schools in India. I have no ambitions of joining an investment bank or a McKinsey and work 20 hrs a day for the rest of my life. I am happy with any job that grants work life balance and pays decently. My father thinks that such a life isn't even possible in India (and I beg to differ)
My family and friends think that I am crazy that I want to slog it out in an IIM, when I have a pretty stable alternative. Yes, the lifestyle in a country like Australia is unmatched. Compared to that, in India, we have corruption, bad roads, dirt and bad sanitation, corrupt cops, sri ram sene and what not. However, there is something about India that makes me want to stay back It's probably the highways (I enjoy driving on Indian highways more. They are a LOT less boring than Australia's cow-free, pothole-free straight nice roads)

A lot of members on this board have been abroad for a good period of time. Also, some are much older and experienced than I. In the long run, is staying back in India not a great decision?
Do you guys have any inputs?
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Old 3rd September 2009, 00:02   #118
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@e1t1bet, you are talking about life decisions here. are you married? do you plan to have kids? do you want to raise them in india or a western society? do you have aging parents that need support? do you have your own support system? your POV will change once that happens. India or australia won't change for years.

you have already told you love India despite it's problems. what else attracts you to australia?

@aagg.., with time you will move on. 8 years down the line, your school qualifications will not even be looked at. Plan for future, don't keep fearing your past. I know its tough, but whoever told you life is fair was only trying to make you happy.
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Old 3rd September 2009, 00:43   #119
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I saw this today and I am really surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anurag_p80 View Post
IMO, big problem. Look at the pace of change around you Samurai. It is accelerating. New technologies have created so many businesses unheard of even a year before. Syllabi can never keep pace with that, granted, still there is a huge disconnect. And they still teach you Porter's five forces in b-school.
I am glad they still teach that, because it is still relevant and will remain so forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anurag_p80 View Post
You still get examples of typewriter's in the age of PC. Forget hearing a word about facebook, or cloud computing, or adwords, or SFDC, even SOX.
They are just products and services, just like slaves were products and bath houses were services in the Roman times. Nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anurag_p80 View Post
Business schools should not be teaching "basics".
In other words they shouldn't be teaching at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anurag_p80 View Post
They are important, yes, but b-schools are about application of those basics in the real world, and the applications have changed, they are unrecognizable from a year before. There are examples all around in all kinds of businesses- airlines (9/11), telecom (convergence), advertising (online), IT (too many to name), compliance (SOX). Apart from Business Law, I guess. That is as slow moving as time itself, I guess. *****End of Rant*****
You are really missing forest for the trees my friend. Better tools of communication, transportation & information have made the business processes faster and efficient. But the basics of business have remained the same and will continue to be so.
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Old 13th November 2009, 08:43   #120
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Quote:
There are 300 applicants for each clerical post at SBI [ Get Quote ], mostly engineers/MBAs, for a job that just requires a Class 12 qualification, says Shyamal Majumdar.

The server of State Bank of India (SBI) crashed last year when two million candidates applied for 20,000 clerical posts. The written examination had to be conducted over four shifts as the bank just could not find enough venues where the tests could be held.
When MBAs aspire to become clerks: Rediff.com Business

This is what happens when a specialized course is offered in every college, it gets diluted to the extent that the MBA graduates don't feel any different from arts/commerce graduates. Same has happened to courses like MCA, M.Tech, and even PhD.

Last edited by Samurai : 13th November 2009 at 08:44.
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