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Old 17th August 2008, 19:07   #16
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Originally Posted by dkamath View Post
Hi, used a StanChart Bank Titanium card, and a colleague used an ICICI Bank Platinum card outside India. We found that both were charged an additional rupee and fifty paise per dollar (approx.) as conversion charge. Does the charge look nominal?

Also FYI, the SCB Titanium Super Value card looks appealing for domestic transactions too. There's a 1% cash back for retail transactions > Rs.1K, 5% cash back on telecom transactions, 2.5% cash back (plus 2.5% surcharge reversal) on fuel purchase. Disclaimer: There's annual fee though, which is usually charged as a one-time fee, and can be recovered in no time, if used on all the above transactions.
Even I have the Stan Chart Titanium card. Makes it a totally VFM (Zero joining and annual fees anyways) if used for making purchases on a regular basis

ajmat,
Why dont you use a Foreign Travel Card when travelling abroad ?

And coming back to the topic,

I guess merchants dont encourage us to pay by credit card. I wanted to buy the N82 in Chennai. Univercell, Mobile Store, Subiksha and such sundry shops wanted 1-2% service charge. For a mobile worth 20k, I guess it was a rip-off! Finally managed to buy it at Viveks.
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Old 17th August 2008, 19:38   #17
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What is a really a killer are forex transactions. HSBC juice me by 10% in currency exchange rates when shopping abroad. Does anyone know any alternates?
That is ridiculous. I am 100% sure I do not pay those rates when I use both my HDFC and Citibank cards.
Call your bank Ajit and fight it out.
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Old 17th August 2008, 19:48   #18
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Err I've got an HSBC card too which I use for paypal transactions all the time. I've never been charged more than Rs 1.50 or so over the current dollar rate. Anyway coming to the point... the dealer is entitled to charge the surcharge if he's selling the product at below mrp. However if you are paying mrp, the dealer can't charge one buck more.
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Old 17th August 2008, 20:18   #19
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I think the 1.5 or 2 % charged is all crap. If you argue enough, the shops waive those off, so I feel it's a money making racket.
Its not 'crap' as you put it. The merchant establishments pay between 1-2.75% so when they charge you it might be wrong but its not a money making racket.

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Originally Posted by Fountainheader View Post
Even I have the Stan Chart Titanium card. Makes it a totally VFM (Zero joining and annual fees anyways) if used for making purchases on a regular basis

ajmat,
Why dont you use a Foreign Travel Card when travelling abroad ?

And coming back to the topic,

I guess merchants dont encourage us to pay by credit card. I wanted to buy the N82 in Chennai. Univercell, Mobile Store, Subiksha and such sundry shops wanted 1-2% service charge. For a mobile worth 20k, I guess it was a rip-off! Finally managed to buy it at Viveks.
On things like mobiles etc the margins for these guys are so low I actually feel that I would not mind paying the charge.

The problem here is that the card companies charge very high percentages compared to abroad because I think they distribute cards indiscriminately and land up with large number of defaulters.

I charge 1% to my patients if they want to pay by card even though I am charged 2.5% - I offer them the choice of cheque payment also where no one loses but if they insist on card I do try and charge 1%.

I justify this [to myself at least] by saying that I am offering to collect a cheque.

BTW I am just right now booking a car in the UK and most companies are charging a surcharge for credit cards. I have never faced this situation while booking cars abroad anywhere else previously.

Last edited by deepakvrao : 17th August 2008 at 20:22.
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Old 17th August 2008, 20:33   #20
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HSBC do not give a surcharge but they "fiddle" the exchange rate. I recently bought a set of golf clubs for $478 via paypal. Paypal issue an invoice for Rs 19500 soon after on my online statement. This gets transfered my HSBC account and become rs 21500.

Issue is that the on line paypal account statement has now morphed into a mere charge of $478 then merely states transferred to HSBC credit card so I cannot prove anything as no rupee equivalents are quoted.
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Old 17th August 2008, 21:00   #21
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Originally Posted by nirmalts View Post
I know a haircut saloon in HSR Layout which has written in public that they will charge 12% VAT for card payments. It is clear that he is not paying tax to government for all cash payments!

Nirmal
Its a normal (mal)practice you can see all over the country. I have recently done my Karizma transit damages at Millenium Motors at Inner ring road near Dell office. The total bill amount was 5196 on bill. But when I received the Transaction slip, My card is charged 5300

When I asked for a reason the cashier just shown me a Paper Stuck to the counter telling every CC pay would attract 2% charge. I told them the charge is fine but give me a bill for that. (Before reading it on Forum I was not knowing that this is illegal). They were not ready to give me a bill of the extra 104 Rs charged to the card. I waisted 1 hour there and ended up paying extra.
Does Anyone has got RBI notification / Paper-cutout-scan telling its illegal? We can have a print of that and show the shopkeeper when they demand it. Is there any helpline number where we can complaint oblut the same ?

Last edited by HotChillyPepper : 17th August 2008 at 21:02.
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Old 17th August 2008, 23:40   #22
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My friend tells me he read that charging the customer a surcharge is illegal as per RBI website.
Ideally using a cash back card (2%) counters the 1.5% of surcharge.
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Old 18th August 2008, 00:27   #23
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I have faced some shops asking extra for debit cards too.

For the first time I was charged around 2.5% for using debit card in petrol pump. The amount was not included in my bill (I always fill full tank) but I found a seperate debit entry (60 rupees) by the petrol pump in my bank statement.

I stopped using debit cards at petrol pumps. I use credit cards only in unavoidable situations. But I am a frequent user of debit cards.

Last edited by PatienceWins : 18th August 2008 at 00:29.
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Old 18th August 2008, 01:36   #24
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As a merchant i would like to put my point of view too.

I have two credit card machines at my shop, one from HDFC and one from ICICI. HDFC charges us a 2.5% and ICICI 1.5% as service charge for payments received via their credit card machines.

This amount i've understood is not charged for merchants with huge transactions, however for small timers like us this service fee cannot be waivered.

At my place a customer can always pay us in cash. If he does not have cash in hand he can go to the nearest ATM, get out the cash and make the payment.

However if the customer wants to pay by card we tell him in advance that a 1.5% surcharge is levied as service charge which is paid to the bank. As rightly mentioned there is no bill for the same because it is a deduction.

Why should i pay the 1.5% from my pocket which is an operating loss to me when i can simply say that i shall accept only cash and no credit/debit cards? I shouldnt care if the customer has to walk 2 miles to find the nearest atm right?

Using our credit card payment system at our place is a privelage and not a right. Every customer understands this and is willing to pay the extra 1.5% for his/her own convinence.


Hope it helps clears some doubts.
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Old 18th August 2008, 08:36   #25
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I can take this as a merchant's view and not as a fair statement.

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Originally Posted by autopsyche View Post
Using our credit card payment system at our place is a privelage and not a right. Every customer understands this and is willing to pay the extra 1.5% for his/her own convinence.
.
It is the merchant's privilege to get the customer and not the other way round. The merchant gets benefited by additional business by way of accreditation to the card issuers. This is true of all things such as coupons, reward schemes, gift vouchers etc. - in every case the merchant shells out commission from his profits.

I generally avoid merchants who charge extra and generally do not go back to them. And I am sure many others do.
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Old 18th August 2008, 10:20   #26
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You said it yourself, then why care putting a CC machine in the first place itself. Dont keep it and let the customer walk to the ATM.

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Originally Posted by autopsyche View Post
At my place a customer can always pay us in cash. If he does not have cash in hand he can go to the nearest ATM, get out the cash and make the payment.

However if the customer wants to pay by card we tell him in advance that a 1.5% surcharge is levied as service charge which is paid to the bank. As rightly mentioned there is no bill for the same because it is a deduction.

Why should i pay the 1.5% from my pocket which is an operating loss to me when i can simply say that i shall accept only cash and no credit/debit cards? I shouldnt care if the customer has to walk 2 miles to find the nearest atm right?
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Old 18th August 2008, 11:04   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autopsyche View Post
As a merchant i would like to put my point of view too.

I have two credit card machines at my shop, one from HDFC and one from ICICI. HDFC charges us a 2.5% and ICICI 1.5% as service charge for payments received via their credit card machines.

This amount i've understood is not charged for merchants with huge transactions, however for small timers like us this service fee cannot be waivered.

At my place a customer can always pay us in cash. If he does not have cash in hand he can go to the nearest ATM, get out the cash and make the payment.

However if the customer wants to pay by card we tell him in advance that a 1.5% surcharge is levied as service charge which is paid to the bank. As rightly mentioned there is no bill for the same because it is a deduction.

Why should i pay the 1.5% from my pocket which is an operating loss to me when i can simply say that i shall accept only cash and no credit/debit cards? I shouldnt care if the customer has to walk 2 miles to find the nearest atm right?

Using our credit card payment system at our place is a privelage and not a right. Every customer understands this and is willing to pay the extra 1.5% for his/her own convinence.


Hope it helps clears some doubts.
+1
Though I am not a merchant, and neither do I own any business establishment, but what is posted i here is the truth.

The 1.5% or 2% that shops charge us extra is what banks chanrge them.
If the business is running at large margins, the shopkeeper might waive off these charges, but thats his privelege, not duty.


Dadu, regrading why CC machines are kept at shops?
That is something that banks want. For a shopkeeper, it doesnt matter. In fact CC payement is even worse off, since he doesnt get the immediate liquid cash, which could make his working capital offbalance.

For a customer like you and me, paying CC service charge is like paying a premuim for convinience, you don't have to carry large currency in your pocket, neither do you have to keep running to ATM every now and then.
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Old 18th August 2008, 11:09   #28
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Thats what I am saying, if the shopkeeper doesnt want it dont keep it. I am willing to pay cash/ DD/ cheque, but dont take the law into your own hands or else if you think you are doing the right thing, provide the receipt.

It a premium for people who rotate money using CC, which I understand and they are willing to pay the extra charge. For me its only a convenience of not carrying money but anywhere they demand extra, I ask them to send someone to the ATM/ my house(which they happily do), else I move to the next shop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha1 View Post
+1
Though I am not a merchant, and neither do I own any business establishment, but what is posted i here is the truth.

The 1.5% or 2% that shops charge us extra is what banks chanrge them.
If the business is running at large margins, the shopkeeper might waive off these charges, but thats his privelege, not duty.


Dadu, regrading why CC machines are kept at shops?
That is something that banks want. For a shopkeeper, it doesnt matter. In fact CC payement is even worse off, since he doesnt get the immediate liquid cash, which could make his working capital offbalance.

For a customer like you and me, paying CC service charge is like paying a premuim for convinience, you don't have to carry large currency in your pocket, neither do you have to keep running to ATM every now and then.

Last edited by dadu : 18th August 2008 at 11:11.
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Old 18th August 2008, 11:22   #29
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Hey, I don't get one thing.
Ppl here are saying that shopkeeper's dont give a bill for the extra charge?

But my personal experience has been that all the shops where I have paid 1.5% extra, the shopkeeper has billed the added 1.5% amount also (The most recent ones being the new tyres I purchased few months ago).


Dadu, in your case, its your choice. The shopkeeper always tells you in advance that you would pay something extra. Just don't take that route, if ou don't wish to pay.
Its a free open market. No one is forcing you to use your credit card, just because you have one.
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Old 18th August 2008, 11:27   #30
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You said it yourself, then why care putting a CC machine in the first place itself. Dont keep it and let the customer walk to the ATM.
Exactly, the CC machine is available for those who are willing to pay the 1.5% for those who do not wish to the ATM / House / Next shop, are always there, just like you said you do when youre out shopping.

Like i said before, if the customer is willing to pay for his convinence, why should i not keep a CC Machine? As long as there is a demand there will be a supply.
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