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Old 27th August 2008, 21:19   #16
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Rajiv, this looks like a documentary on how Japanese aid was used to provide clean drinking water in rural areas - not Indian poverty. For poverty, they show scenes from particular areas of Kolkata and Mumbai, not areas with greenery as backdrop. There is nothing to be embarrassed about our rural areas.

A lot of Japanese come to Bihar to visit Bodh Gaya (they have been doing that for more than 40 years now). Many Japanese agencies give aid (and ideas and labour) to be used directly for the regions around there to give practical solutions.
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Old 27th August 2008, 21:45   #17
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For most of the forigners, India means Delhi, Udaipur and Agra and the villages of north India untouched by modernization. It is sad that they don't know how things are different down south, especially in states like Kerala.
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Old 27th August 2008, 22:02   #18
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@clevermax- kerala has pretty poor infrastructure too, even in the urban areas.
for example- the japanese govt is installing a drinking water project in alleppey district. not in a remote area of allepey, this is the area adjacent to the great 4 lane highway(the only one in kerala)
so expect images of poverty from kerala in japan soon.

also note- kerala has one of the lowest per capita incomes in the country(might be a different matter if black money is counted)

EDIT- also note- 4000 people waited 2 hrs in the sun in allepey to get a single meal that was being doled out by some big shot recently. tell me, if abject poverty did not exist, would people turn up for a free meal and wait 2 hrs?
kerala is no better. the reality is being glossed over by the media, and the people themselves who are too ashamed to admit that they live in penury.

Last edited by rippergeo : 27th August 2008 at 22:06.
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Old 27th August 2008, 23:14   #19
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Originally Posted by rippergeo View Post

EDIT- also note- 4000 people waited 2 hrs in the sun in allepey to get a single meal that was being doled out by some big shot recently. tell me, if abject poverty did not exist, would people turn up for a free meal and wait 2 hrs?
in chennai a similar incident resulted in stampede and deaths. one of the deads owned 3 houses in chennai still she turned up for freebies (saaris i think). No, it's not always about poverty, it's about how greedy we are to consume resources.
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Old 28th August 2008, 08:50   #20
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@clevermax- kerala has pretty poor infrastructure too, even in the urban areas.
for example- the japanese govt is installing a drinking water project in alleppey district. not in a remote area of allepey, this is the area adjacent to the great 4 lane highway(the only one in kerala)
so expect images of poverty from kerala in japan soon.

also note- kerala has one of the lowest per capita incomes in the country(might be a different matter if black money is counted)

EDIT- also note- 4000 people waited 2 hrs in the sun in allepey to get a single meal that was being doled out by some big shot recently. tell me, if abject poverty did not exist, would people turn up for a free meal and wait 2 hrs?
kerala is no better. the reality is being glossed over by the media, and the people themselves who are too ashamed to admit that they live in penury.
Kerala has the lowerst per capita income?!! Thats surprising, even with all those NRI money & black money flowing into the state. I don't think it is true. Can you give a citation? What I find is, even the poor are richer than the poor you find elsewhere. In which other 'similar' city like Cohin you can see all those many BMWs and Mercs for example? (I don't want to compare with bigger cities of course)

Now my point was, in Kerala, there are no deserted villages (except very very few) untouched by modernization, like what you see in north. The population and infrastructure is more evenly distributed. For example,
In my village (it is not a town and no town is nearby) in Kerala, I have access to broadband internet, one speciality hospital and a couple of others, two petrol pumps, few schools including english mediums, two colleges, digital cable tv, call taxis, 4 gsm carriers and one cdma carrier covering the entire area, modern grocery shops - most of these in and around a 3-4Km radius may be. But note that the nearest city is more than 100 Kms away. In contrast, in north, cities have everything, far better infrastructure than anywhere else, but when you go to a village away from city, you find nothing except deserted land. Thats the difference I wanted to point out. I had lived in the north, as well as in Kerala. But now not in any of these places..

Last edited by clevermax : 28th August 2008 at 08:57.
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Old 28th August 2008, 09:14   #21
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Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
Kerala has the lowerst per capita income?!! Thats surprising, even with all those NRI money & black money flowing into the state. I don't think it is true. Can you give a citation? What I find is, even the poor are richer than the poor you find elsewhere. In which other 'similar' city like Cohin you can see all those many BMWs and Mercs for example? (I don't want to compare with bigger cities of course)

Now my point was, in Kerala, there are no deserted villages (except very very few) untouched by modernization, like what you see in north. The population and infrastructure is more evenly distributed. For example,
In my village (it is not a town and no town is nearby) in Kerala, I have access to broadband internet, one speciality hospital and a couple of others, two petrol pumps, few schools including english mediums, two colleges, digital cable tv, call taxis, 4 gsm carriers and one cdma carrier covering the entire area, modern grocery shops - most of these in and around a 3-4Km radius may be. But note that the nearest city is more than 100 Kms away. In contrast, in north, cities have everything, far better infrastructure than anywhere else, but when you go to a village away from city, you find nothing except deserted land. Thats the difference I wanted to point out. I had lived in the north, as well as in Kerala. But now not in any of these places..
I completely agree with you Cevermax. I was also brought up in NE India and i could feel the difference once i reached kerala. In kerala the standard of living of ever citizen is high compared to other states in India. Where in Kerala can you find real slums ? . Every village ( if you can call so ) in kerala is connected well by road, most houses have telephone and these days finding an alto too is not uncommon i .

Most of the families that i know of in kerala definitely has someone working abroad and so do we have lots of NRI money floating across the state...

One more thing that i have noticed is that every village in kerala has good schools, good hospitals and definitely many TODDY shops .
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Old 28th August 2008, 09:28   #22
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Kerala has the lowerst per capita income?!! Thats surprising, even with all those NRI money & black money flowing into the state. I don't think it is true. Can you give a citation?
@clevermax
thanks for that. I have been proven wrong. kerala's per capita income is significantly better than the national average.
below is the link that proves you right and me wrong. I apologise.
http://sampark.chd.nic.in/images/sta.../SDP2005R5.pdf

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Now my point was, in Kerala, there are no deserted villages (except very very few) untouched by modernization, like what you see in north. The population and infrastructure is more evenly distributed.
that is true too.
what I'm saying is poverty exists and all is not rosy. uptil recently I used to think that kerala was wealthy. then I witnessed this event in alleppey where people queued up and waited for a free meal. thats when I thought, if people are desperate to wait for so long just for a single meal,we(kerala) are not that much better than other states.
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Old 28th August 2008, 09:43   #23
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Poverty exists in every country in different perspectives but the question here arises about "governance" they have governed themselves better and have risen up coverting their "bads" into "good'. They were not born with only "goods".

Our governing bodies are still filling their coffers than public governance.

Where is a decent social security in India

Where is the health plan for all.

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Dadu Saab, if you ask me who to blame, I can count 20 different stakeholders, I am a manager by profession .
Its not a question of who to blame, we have different problems and different situations and we have good and bad both. They might just have good.
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Old 28th August 2008, 09:49   #24
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I find no mistake in this documentary.
@rkbharat. They also had documentary about the Indian schooling system and you know how much response we had for that in Japan? They showed a 3-4th grade student telling the 12th tables and these Japanese were astonished to see that.
So, what I mean is, they just show what is available. Nothing exaggerated. Its us who need to make sure that what is available is good.
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Old 28th August 2008, 09:54   #25
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They just showed the part most of us dont see daily.
Rightly said jk. Most of us see only the haves. India is poor, has always been poor. Only the middle class has become richer now.

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Shut up you poor Indian, just drink your glass of hand-pumped water and scurry off happily.
Glug glug.
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Old 28th August 2008, 10:07   #26
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I completely agree with you Cevermax.
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@clevermax
thanks for that. I have been proven wrong. kerala's per capita income is significantly better than the national average.
Happy that we're on the same page...
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Old 28th August 2008, 10:16   #27
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Yaar, the media everywhere in the world speaks about issues that get eyeballs. To the Japs, perhaps these kind of documentaries showcase the kind of difference their aid is making in the developing countries like India. Personally, I dont find anything offensive in this. Give India sometime, we've already made loads of progress, and we'll only get better from here.

Curious though as to why the water pipe is going upwards. Usually the tap is directly mounted at the lowest possible level of the drum to ensure that all the water flows out. Am I missing something? Is this some kind of pressurised vessel? Could you please throw some more light on this?
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Old 28th August 2008, 10:40   #28
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Yaar, the media everywhere in the world speaks about issues that get eyeballs. To the Japs, perhaps these kind of documentaries showcase the kind of difference their aid is making in the developing countries like India. Personally, I dont find anything offensive in this. Give India sometime, we've already made loads of progress, and we'll only get better from here.
Let me mention it, India is a developed country. What makes you think it is a developing country? Is it poverty? What is that Japan has which India does not have? I consider Japan as a poor country as compared to India. Do you know that the mud and sand required for construction in Japan is imported from other countries? Cos they dont have any. There are countries which import even the drinking water from other countries, at times from India.


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Rightly said jk. Most of us see only the haves. India is poor, has always been poor. Only the middle class has become richer now.
I guess you have little or no knowledge about what the government is doing for the poverty in India. Do spare some time and visit the site www.jnnurm.nic.in

Its about a national mission launched by 'Ministry of Housing and Urban Poverty Alleviation', Govt of India. Government has sanctioned Rs Fifty Thousand Crore for providing houses and basic aminities to the slum dwellers all over India. This scheme aims to have a slum free India by 2015. The poverty in India has gone down by 30% in the last 10 years.

Already 3 Lac houses have been provided to BPL families free of cost across INdia. I work for this ministry, I can post pics of the houses if anyone is interested.

Last edited by akash_m : 28th August 2008 at 10:47.
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Old 28th August 2008, 10:59   #29
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Let me mention it, India is a developed country. What makes you think it is a developing country? Is it poverty? What is that Japan has which India does not have? I consider Japan as a poor country as compared to India. Do you know that the mud and sand required for construction in Japan is imported from other countries? Cos they dont have any. There are countries which import even the drinking water from other countries, at times from India.
Hey Akash, Wikepedia defines developing countries as "A developing country is a country which has an undeveloped or developing industrial base, and an inconsistent varying human development index (HDI) score and per capita income, but is in a phase of economic development. Usually all countries which are neither a developed country nor a failed state are classified as developing countries. However, this is not true for all countries, as some 'developing countries' are far more developed than some developed countries."

Without doubt India has to make quite some progress to be called a developed country and its not that we're not getting there. Just that we're not there yet. Google this and you'll find heaps of Indian government websites which claim India is a developing country. Infact, we proudly claim to be representing the interests of the entire block of developing countries in the WTO.

BTW, really appreciate all the good work that you folks in the Govt sector are doing to improve the lives of the poor in India. Keep it up !!!

Last edited by Lalvaz : 28th August 2008 at 11:01.
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Old 28th August 2008, 11:14   #30
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Hey Akash, Wikepedia defines developing countries as "A developing country is a country which has an undeveloped or developing industrial base, and an inconsistent varying human development index (HDI) score and per capita income, but is in a phase of economic development. Usually all countries which are neither a developed country nor a failed state are classified as developing countries. However, this is not true for all countries, as some 'developing countries' are far more developed than some developed countries."
Truely support and appreciate your views. My statement was only a petriotic one made in tune with what Dr APJ Kalam said in one of his speech about India beeing a developed country.

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