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Old 11th September 2008, 19:41   #31
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Originally Posted by aerohit View Post
As i said earlier, India can barely maintain their roads, sewers and gutters, let alone maintain nuclear plants in a large scale.......
ohhh.. what about the nuclear plants we already have? Maybe we should demolish them too. Homi Bhaba would probably be rolling in his grave if he hears your POV !!

Maybe we should also start demolishing the dams and the hydroelectric projects that we have already commisioned so far (from Nehru's time, I might add).

We Indians cant maintain anything, let alone dams and such. After all, Look what happened to New Oreleans after the dykes burst open. But wait, That was in America .
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Old 11th September 2008, 21:56   #32
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Sir, I am all in support for acquiring nuclear power, but not liking the agreements.
I happen to worry about blackmaling from America.
The roads and gutter comment was just an exaggerating style of talking from my side (which actually happens to be true unfortunately)

Second, my world doesnt revolve around America, the world is a great place and there are many great countries. From Seychelles to Brazil. So, why care about dykes in Lousiana. A better example from you should be - 3 Miles Island.

If you want a good example of nuclear energy, learn from France.
They get +50% energy from nuclear energy, more than anyone else in the world.

If you want good example of bio fuels, learn from Brazil.

If you want good example of wind energy learn from Euro.

If you want how to burn petrol, learn from America.

Now, pick one.

Petrol, you are not getting i believe, unless Indians and others stop licking Dollar notes (it is happening slowly though)

I dont know why you are taking about demolishing Dams.
Dams have been in existence since "indian" breed was not even created (which was only created after the migration and mixing of original africans/arabs/aryans etc in india)

America is not interested in helping India because India is acting like a nice little boy. They have their own agenda. They only help if it is in their best interests.

Last edited by aerohit : 11th September 2008 at 21:57.
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Old 11th September 2008, 22:34   #33
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I think we should also look at this agreement from an American point of view as well. Living in North America for quite a few years, let me shed some light on this situation.

India is viewed by US and NATO countries as being a "safe" customer. It is the largest democracy in the world and has never had a history of a political turmoil or a coup (except for the Emergency years I guess).

The only reason India was not favoured by NATO countries was because of its affiliation with the Warsaw Pact countries, most importantly Soviet Union. Now that all of that has ended, everyone wants India on their side, for reasons mentioned above.

Now the nuclear deal kinda ties India with the true "Western world", with billions of dollars of business deals. It is both a good thing and a bad thing for India. On one hand India gets easy access to some much needed technology which can greatly help in its development in the long run. The energy problem is one of the biggest concerns in the country and can be a big deterrent in its growth. On the other hand, it might not be allowed to have close ties with "suspect" countries like Iran, North Korea etc.

If you ask me, I'd gladly go with the first option. India's primary concern should be to catch up with its Western counterparts in terms of economic and technological development, and this Nuclear deal is just the beginning.

If it goes through as planned and India commits to what it said in the agreement, it will bring a lot of confidence to the Western (and NATO) investors and governments and more favourable trade and even defense agreements might follow in the near future.

As an example, we've all seen the billions of dollars wasted on projects like the LCA which could have been put to better use elsewhere if we had more options and flexibility to buy our aircraft from. Also look at countries like Israel, Japan and even South Korea's tremendous growth in the last 40-50 years despite of all their wars and conflicts because of all the favourable free trade and defense agreements. The time has come now to think outside the box, and not just concentrate on our neighbours and their threats.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 11th September 2008 at 22:41.
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Old 11th September 2008, 23:11   #34
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@aerohit, India will ink large deals with France and Russia - in fact, most of the modalities are in place. So, as I said in an earlier post, there will be commerical balance of interests. US will not be able to push beyond an extent because the market is a great leveller.

That said, we need to ack that USA really made all the doors open and did most of the hardwork esp in the NSG. Therefore, as a country we need to give them a good part of the pie. Remember, they are already talking about pushing and making India a full blown NSG member - for such steps, we will need them behind. Please note that the USA generates the maximum MWe of nuclear energy in the world even if the % of total power generation is much lower than France.

Finally, India must look after her interests as Dr. Kalam put in simple and precise terms. Nobody is a friend and nobody is an enemy - this is real politik.
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Old 11th September 2008, 23:35   #35
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This is because, we, as Americans undertand that, you can barely maintain your roads or sewers, or keep your streets clean, let alone maintain Nuclear plants in a large scale....
It is incorrect to compare it this way. Indian nuclear power plants have been run in most professional manner. The safety standards, not to mention the capacity factors, have been exemplary. Please don't bull**** everything in the same breath, because it is Indian.
There is good and bad in the deal. Good is that we have chance to get fuel from outside to sustain our programme. Thorium is still far away. And we can't bypass the earlier stages and pitchfork ourselves just like that. The three stage programme runs sequentially. The bad part is that once we buy expensive reactors from them, we are tied up in the issue of fuel. Theoretically we can buy from any of the NSG countries. But US can always dictate and armtwist. I guess things will work fine as long as India retains it nuclear "gentlemanship". Let's be positive and try to make the best out of this.
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Old 12th September 2008, 08:32   #36
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Default Some doubts

  1. Which agency inspects nuke facilities of:-The US of A.
    • France
    • Australia
    • Israel
    • Other countries of the NSG
  2. If any agency inspects the nuke facilities of the above countries, what is nationality of the individuals conducting the inspection?
  3. Will Indian nationals get to be a part of the inspection team conducting inspections (if any) of the members of the NSG?
And I just one question on the NPT.

Is a certain US of A signatory to the NPT? Why? err... why not??

One more question.

What happens if the Parliament of India passes a law which says that its citizens should be barred from participating in any govt. contracts if they trade or do business with countries or business entities in countries which indulge in activities not conducive to our interests?? (Those reports about members of a certain organisation related to Kh---stan getting military training from ex- US officers in US territory are still fresh in my mind).

Quote:
That said, we need to ack that USA really made all the doors open and did most of the hardwork esp in the NSG. Therefore, as a country we need to give them a good part of the pie.
The US? Or the businesses in US? I am very sorry to point out that the government in US is run by the businesses there; NOT the votes of the US citizens. (errr... it is a bit the same here tooo....)

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 12th September 2008 at 08:37.
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Old 2nd October 2008, 14:26   #37
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Thumbs up Nuclear Deal is Through

This is something which is a big milestone in the future road map towards a SUPERPOWER India. A vision. A dream.

Thanks Mr Prime minister and team.

Cheers
MK
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Old 2nd October 2008, 17:52   #38
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Now Singh is really King! Hurrah!
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