Go Back   Team-BHP > Around the Corner > Shifting gears


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 19th March 2005, 14:17   #1
Senior - BHPian
 
DCEite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: NCR
Posts: 3,015
Thanked: 441 Times
Lightbulb What is driving pleasure?

Here in this forum, this phrase pops up so many times. But i think its meaning is not clearly defined.

To most of us here, driving pleasure means how "fast" the car goes from 0-100kmph.
So a car doing it in 9 secs has better driving pleasure than a car doing it in 18 secs.

Now my point is, this is a very vague description of driving pleasure.

To me a pleasing driving is not necessary the one which is the fastest, but which is comfortable and safer as well.
I just love the cars with good ergonomics (like design of seats, driving position, ac ..etc.) than cars with outright performance and no ergonomics to talk of.
Thats why a tata indica journey of 100 km will be less tiring than the same journey on a Santro xing (badly designed seats and pedals) or a wagonr (narrow and unspportive seats) or an esteem (all of the above bad qualities)...



Thats why a Fiat Palio 1.2 nv with 0-100kmph of 17 secs gives me more driving pleasure than a zen doing the same in 13 odd seconds...

What are the views of fellow t-bhpians on this....

Last edited by DCEite : 19th March 2005 at 14:23.
DCEite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 14:52   #2
Senior - BHPian
 
drifter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Bombay
Posts: 1,469
Thanked: 12 Times
Default

Lets not confuse performance with driving pleasure. The lines can get pretty blurred. I agree with deceite's views. Some cars that perform well can be a mess in the ergonomics department.

But to most on teambhp ... performance = driving pleasure.... comforts be damned!

But i'd personally prefer a car thats both comfortable and has the show to match the go.

Drifter

Last edited by drifter : 19th March 2005 at 14:54. Reason: typo
drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 15:57   #3
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 81 Times
Default

Driving pleasure can be anything. It's not all about acceleration. Depends on the mood.

Nobody rips their car, everytime they sit in it. On a long journey, the Vtec never sees revvs rise above 3000 rpm.

And on a solo drive it never sees revvs drop below 4000 rpm. LOL

So, i get pleasure from both styles of driving. But, it's good to know that my car can offer both, in a reliable and refined way and that's what's so satisfying about it.

But the term "Driver's Car" is directly related to performance in terms of acceleration, braking, cornering etc. A driver's car need not have comfort or ergonomics.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 19th March 2005 at 15:58.
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 16:41   #4
Senior - BHPian
 
normally_crazy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 4,368
Thanked: 383 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
But the term "Driver's Car" is directly related to performance in terms of acceleration, braking, cornering etc. A driver's car need not have comfort or ergonomics.

Shan2nu
Shan,

I thought the opposite. A driver's car has to be ergonomically spot on and comfortable for the driver atleast ?
normally_crazy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 17:08   #5
BHPian
 
GTO - Touring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 713
Thanked: 13 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by normally_crazy
Shan,

I thought the opposite. A driver's car has to be ergonomically spot on and comfortable for the driver atleast ?
Spot on NC! A drivers car is THE car that should have the right ergonomics more than anything. Cos when you are on the limit, you need to reach out to the controls instinctively.

But coming back to what I think is the topic of the thread : Get this. Every morning when leaving for work...I have my C, Vtec, Esteem and Jeep. its obvious that my Jeep is the slowest of the lot.

But yet, 29 mornings out of 30...my hand reaches out for the Jeeps keys. Sometimes, Its not about what your car can do...its how your car makes you feel !

GTO
GTO - Touring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 17:50   #6
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 81 Times
Default

Well if you're talking about ergonomics as in hand brake, gear lever, etc then yes, it has to have that. No point having your handbrake on the other side of the world when you need it the most.

Look at WRC cars, perfect example for what a driver's car should be like. It maynot look sophisticated from the inside but, what you need is always at hand. And i remember Rtech posting a thread on how driver centered the S2000 interiors were. That is the kind of ergonmics were talking about.

Anyway lets get back to the main topic before this turns into a driver's car thread.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 19th March 2005 at 17:53.
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 18:06   #7
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 71
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

i would tend to measure pleasure in terms of the overall driving experience....
and i feel, distinguishing Pleasure from Thrills would drive home the point...

a classic example would be my 35 km return drive from office in Fort to my home in the central s'urbs... done on most days post 9 pm.... moderately good roads.... dwindling traffic.... the music of ur choice.... ur the king of the roads....
- Thrill for me is when i zoom thru and cover the distance in 30-35 mins of total high alert.. edge of seat.... vroom vroom driving...

- And pleasure is when, i am on cruise mode... and am generally slipping and easing thru the traffic.... accelaration is generally gradual.... cruise speed would be 90 kmph on the eastern express..... stress free driving....
(Had a better analogy to differentiate between Thrills and Pleasure.. but then.. thot i'd stick to driving..... )

so if u were to build on this example..
- all the adrenalin rush relate driving would get categorised under Thrill...
- and all the cruise mode, relaxed drives would get categorised as Pleasure...

and hence my signature......

Drive for the pleasure of it..... not the thrill!!
vivaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 18:55   #8
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 81 Times
Default

Well, i would disagree. When i drive on the Hubli-Ankola road, i usually cruise at 120kmph, on an expressway 120 would have been boring but, on these roads it can be quite thrilling.

But, at the same time, i'm not on the limit, i'm calm and not on the edge of my seat. You don't have be go overboard to get thrilled, i get it when ever i take a turn which i feel was precise, calculated and quick at the same time.

Rash driving with aggressive driving inputs is not my idea of thrill.

But then again thrill levels differ in many ways. We do 160kmph and feel great but if you ask an F1 driver, he'll say "160kmph? Man that's boring speed".

So, pleasurable driving isn't always slow, it can be fast too.

Shan2nu
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 19:33   #9
BHPian
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 71
Thanked: 2 Times
Default

well shan...

I guess you dint get the essence of my response.... nowhere do i mention that pleasurable driving needs to be slow driving.... the intention is to understand the threshold which separates thrill driving and pleasure driving....

Taking cues from ur response .... if 120 on the hubli ankola road is thrilling for you... then i would probably classify pleasure driving for u at probably 100.. when u would have been a lil more relaxed.... unless 100 is again on the boring side for u

in a nut- shell..... "Cruise mode".. might be a better word.... albeit in the colloquial sense of the word....


and yes.. if its the thrill that gives you the pleasure... well.. then.... nothing more to add!!!

cheers....
vivaid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2005, 19:56   #10
Senior - BHPian
 
Shan2nu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hubli - Karnata
Posts: 5,525
Thanked: 81 Times
Default

Quote:
nowhere do i mention that pleasurable driving needs to be slow driving....
You said ""And pleasure is when, i am on cruise mode... and am generally slipping and easing thru the traffic.... accelaration is generally gradual.... cruise speed would be 90 kmph on the eastern express..... stress free driving....""

90kmph on an expressway is very much slow driving. It's not pleasurable, it's boring!!!

Quote:
and yes.. if its the thrill that gives you the pleasure... well.. then.... nothing more to add!!!
More or less like that. My drives are pleasurable and thrilling at the same time. Relative speed is what gets me going. 120 on the Hubli-Ankola road is pleasurable while 120 on an expressway would kill me, unless i'm driving a Wagon R. LOL

Shan2nu
Shan2nu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 16:01   #11
BHPian
 
IndianDawg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mumbai, India
Posts: 95
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

Driving pleasure?
SPEED and only SPEED.

definately driving safe but when the empty lane arrives i accelerate and dont bother how much kmph i touch but speed that makes you feel very fast and driving perfectly , safely that gives me pleasure not touching 140 kmph or anything but driving very fast but should be safely and perfection should be there that makes me feel that i am a very good driver overall
IndianDawg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 20:23   #12
Senior - BHPian
 
ananthkamath's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 1,194
Thanked: 46 Times
Default

My definition of driving pleasure: (In order of importance)

A1) Suspension Response: Most important factor. Turn-in should be crisp & aggressive with no body roll; Mid-corner predictability should good.

1) Steering Response : any input on the wheel must translate into instant output from the front wheels.

2) Gearbox Feel: Must be direct and positive; especially the dog leg shifts like 2-3 & 4-5.

3) Throttle Response: Must be good; in other words in-gear acceleration is much more important in the real world rather than 0-100 or 0-160.

4) Brake Modulation: Must have good bite at high speeds with progression being more important at low speeds.

5) Ergonomics: As someone said, everything must fall to hand easily; the relationship between pedals-wheel-gear lever must be comfortable.

6) Seat: Must offer excellent side support while cornering and good lumbar & thigh support. (which is why I am making my own seats)
ananthkamath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 20:47   #13
Senior - BHPian
 
kiku007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 1,595
Thanked: 1,198 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dceite
Thats why a tata indica journey of 100 km will be less tiring than the same journey on a Santro xing (badly designed seats and pedals) or a wagonr (narrow and unspportive seats) or an esteem (all of the above bad qualities)...



Thats why a Fiat Palio 1.2 nv with 0-100kmph of 17 secs gives me more driving pleasure than a zen doing the same in 13 odd seconds...

What are the views of fellow t-bhpians on this....
Driving Pleasure takes different meanings for diff People and Diff drives.
Take ur Eg. The Indica provides excellent Driving Pleasure on a Highway for 100 kms(i.e. free roads) when comp to Santro/Wagon R but the same Indica is a nightmare(Irresponsive Engine/Poor gear shift) to drive in the stop go City traffic. Here the Santro/Wagon R provide more Driving Pleasure than the Indica.

And there's also an emotional angle to it(Don't know how many of you would agree to it)!!....think about this..My first vehicle,TVS Scooty (1998 model) gives me more driving pleasure than my Suzuki Fiero...can't explain but it happens!!

Frankly when u like ur car/bike u say ur car/bike is the best in Driving Pleasure..I mean..u wont bother if the driver seat has no height adjustment.(My scooty didn't have Gears at all!!)
kiku007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 21:38   #14
Senior - BHPian
 
The Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1,116
Thanked: 58 Times
Default

Driving Pleasure= Ease of driving(in complete controll of the car) + Feel of the car(confidence and snagfree disposure) and behaviour( what image the car renders you to the outside world)

*Behaviour: Might not be applicable to drivers above 45yrs in most case...
The Wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd November 2005, 21:39   #15
BHPian
 
msprabhakar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Mumbai
Posts: 264
Thanked: 73 Times
Default

1. An even road and steady traffic
2. A quiet cabin with 92.5 FM on, preferably with Jaggu & Tarana on "Good morning, Mumbai" show!
msprabhakar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Driving pleasure as the criteria for buying Diesel cars! DCEite The Indian Car Scene 216 15th April 2009 15:32
SUV / Car for driving pleasure in 20 lakhs budget urs_frienddelhi SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 42 6th October 2007 10:39
Looking for a hatch with good driving pleasure Raajiv Hatchbacks 49 15th September 2006 16:42
Driving pleasure wanted: Esteem or Swift? DCEite Hatchbacks 33 29th March 2006 12:56


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 17:30.

Copyright 2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks