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Old 10th May 2012, 15:21   #211
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

If the ER contribution does not go into the PF fund, how can you withdraw that? Even your interest etc is only for the total amount (which has less than twice your contribution)
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Old 10th May 2012, 15:26   #212
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

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Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
What is this pension fund?

I thought that when you withdraw, you get the full amount which is full share of EE and full share of ER?
EPFO

The Scheme on its introduction applied on compulsory basis to all the new members of Provident Fund and the existing members who were contributing to the Employees' Family Pension Scheme-1971

The new Pension Scheme, alike the old Employees' Family Pension Scheme, 1971 derives its financial resource by partial diversion from the Provident Fund contribution, the rate being 8.33% in lieu of 2.33% against the old ceased Family Pension Scheme-1971

Yes when you withdraw you get full amount including 8.33%. See my answer a few posts above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srishiva View Post
If the ER contribution does not go into the PF fund, how can you withdraw that? Even your interest etc is only for the total amount (which has less than twice your contribution)
It goes into same PF fund, only gets handled differently i guess (Not sure how they do the accounting). Its a part of PF fund only and you can withdraw the whole amount.

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 10th May 2012 at 15:29.
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Old 10th May 2012, 15:39   #213
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

I am still confused. Lets take an example :-

I checked EPF website for balance of my previous company which i have left recently.

You need to type your PF number and they send you the balance via. SMS to your mobile phone

I got below info from them regarding my particular balance

EE : X amount
EF : X amount- 20K

My queries

1. Why is EF 20K less?

2. I plan to withdraw the full amount. So will I get EE+EF+20K ( I assume 20K is diverted to another fund or my understanding is totally incorrect?)
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Old 10th May 2012, 16:00   #214
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
I am still confused. Lets take an example :-

I checked EPF website for balance of my previous company which i have left recently.

You need to type your PF number and they send you the balance via. SMS to your mobile phone

I got below info from them regarding my particular balance

EE : X amount
EF : X amount- 20K

My queries

1. Why is EF 20K less?

2. I plan to withdraw the full amount. So will I get EE+EF+20K ( I assume 20K is diverted to another fund or my understanding is totally incorrect?)
That 20 K is gone, but you will get a meagre pension when you retire from that corpus. My seniors in Vizag Steel who retired recently are getting a petty Rs 1500 per month, while those who retired a decade ago are getting only Rs 750 per month.

This EPS scheme was introduced in Nov, 1995, and existing members then were given an option to take it or not. At that point of time, they increased the PF deduction and employer contribution to 12% in place of 8.33%.

I had opted not to take the scheme, as it was a Robin Hood policy of the government. The government robs the rich (by the way, we are considered rich ) and feeds to poor unorganized sector.

I withdrew my entire PF when I moved to IT sector, and therefore I got a new PF number at Hyderabad. As I was considered to be a new member, the EPS scheme was compulsory for me, unlike earlier.

I need to refresh my mind about how much portion of the extra 3.7 % paid by the employer (12% less 8.33%) goes towards the EPS, but that is exactly why the ER contribution does not match the EE contribution.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10th May 2012, 16:01   #215
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay380 View Post
My PF No is MH/PUN/124112. When I enter these details in EPF site, it asks for Establishment code. What is that?
Here Akshay,
You can search for the establishment code through this link
Establishment Information Search
Search by either, your company's pincode or name. It works.

@Mayank :
I checked mine and my wife's PF balance online.
While in my case the Employer contribution was 51% of employee contribution, in my wife's case the same was 80%. While I know, that ER contribution is divided in to two parts, but how is this huge difference explainable, any idea ?
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Old 10th May 2012, 16:11   #216
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

I cross-checked just now from the Personnel Department of Vizag Steel, and they said that EPS was made compulsory to all members sometime in 2003, including those like me who'd opted not to join the scheme. They were also surprised that I was asking this question, as i was then considered to be an expert on the subject

Half the amount of the increase in employer's contribution goes to the EPS scheme (12% minus 8.33%), which approximately works out to 1.8 %.

Therefore, something is fishy if the contribution is only 51%. In my case it is around 91%.
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Old 10th May 2012, 17:20   #217
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
EE : X amount
EF : X amount- 20K
I calculated the EF percentage and its coming to roughly 90%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
That 20 K is gone, but you will get a meagre pension when you retire from that corpus.
Gone? Gone where? When do we get a pension/month from this fund? Where can we get details of this fund and its balance? I think this would apply only for government sector and not private companies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
I checked mine and my wife's PF balance online. While in my case the Employer contribution was 51% of employee contribution, in my wife's case the same was 80%. While I know, that ER contribution is divided in to two parts, but how is this huge difference explainable, any idea ?
Looks like your employer is taking you for a ride. Check back with them.
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Old 10th May 2012, 17:29   #218
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
That 20 K is gone, but you will get a meagre pension when you retire from that corpus.
20K is gone nowhere, it will come out if you decide to withdraw and the account gets closed/settled. I have done this myself and have received full amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
While in my case the Employer contribution was 51% of employee contribution, in my wife's case the same was 80%
Check this thing out, in your payslip first and then the link i gave above. The % numbers should tally. If still there is something missing get in touch with your HR is they have deposited their portion of the amount? (Usually this does not happen)

Last edited by mayankjha1806 : 10th May 2012 at 17:32.
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Old 10th May 2012, 17:55   #219
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Mayank you are the resident PF expert . . Thanks for clarifying the doubts in detail .

So as Mobike mentioned . For example the SMS we get as

EE : 100 rs
ER : 70 rs

Now when we close or withdraw the account ,do we get 170 rs or 200 rs ?
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Old 10th May 2012, 19:02   #220
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobike008 View Post
I calculated the EF percentage and its coming to roughly 90%.



Gone? Gone where? When do we get a pension/month from this fund? Where can we get details of this fund and its balance? I think this would apply only for government sector and not private companies.


It has gone to the corpus of the Govt on India, and will be disbursed to members on their retirement. It applies to all employees, and not just those with the government.

In my case too it is around 91% of the employee contribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
20K is gone nowhere, it will come out if you decide to withdraw and the account gets closed/settled. I have done this myself and have received full amount.
I honestly don't think this is correct. The government cannot refund money from that corpus except on retirement, death or permanent disabiltiy.

The rule, as far as I remember, says you will get around 50% of your basic pay, subject to the maximum ceiling prescribed by the GOI from time to time. The max was Rs 750 at the time of introduction, and has been revised to Rs 1500 later.

Rs 1500 per month will work out to 10 to 20% of basic for most guys in IT, therefore the figure of 50% is illusory, as long as there is a cap on the amount.

It was only due to this draconian 'ceiling' that I'd chosen not to opt for in in 1995. The Supreme Court had instructed the GOI to give members an option at that time, till they decided on the fairness and reasonableness of the new scheme. I believe it was in 2003 or 2004 that the SC agreed with the GOI and all members, including those who'd opted not to join, were compelled to join with retrrospective effect from Nov, 2005.
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Old 10th May 2012, 19:59   #221
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
I honestly don't think this is correct. The government cannot refund money from that corpus except on retirement, death or permanent disabiltiy.
I cant really put the corpus remittance details as evidence but for your satisfaction here is an excerpt from Form 10(c). It says this form is for Withdrawal of Pension Fund.

The "Provident Fund" Thread-epf10c.jpg
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Old 10th May 2012, 20:27   #222
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by mayankjha1806 View Post
I cant really put the corpus remittance details as evidence but for your satisfaction here is an excerpt from Form 10(c). It says this form is for Withdrawal of Pension Fund.

Attachment 925658
Thanks for the form. I cross-checked with my Finance counterpart (now General Manager Fin) and he said that only those members who have less than 10 years of membership in the EPS are eligible to withdraw the amount, and not old timers like me.

However, the withdrawal in such cases would be only a percentage of the amount remitted to the EPS, and not the full amount.

For guys with more than 10 years of membership, the amount can be claimed as monthly pension (not lumpsum), subject to the limit presribed by GOI from time to time, only on the events below:-
  1. Death
  2. Permanent disablement
  3. Retirement. For this purpose, completing age of 58 is also taken as retirement, even if the company's retirement age is 60.
Hope this clarifies things.
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Old 11th May 2012, 09:03   #223
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Default re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordmanchau View Post
While in my case the Employer contribution was 51% of employee contribution, in my wife's case the same was 80%. While I know, that ER contribution is divided in to two parts, but how is this huge difference explainable, any idea ?
Ford,

As others have suggested, kindly check with your HR/Finance dept.

One more thing which I had observed recently was If there was a name correction or any database change reflected during the tenure of employment, there exists a remote possibility that the records are not reflected and the amount goes into another account. Heard it from a friend of mine.

Hope this helps
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Old 16th May 2012, 11:52   #224
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Default Re: Availing Gratituty

Hi Guys

Need your guidance.

What is the procedure of availing gratituty after completing 5 years in a company ? Do we need to submit any docs to the company or to the PF office ?

Is gratituty taxable in our hands ?

Any guidance on the same in highly appreciated.
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Old 16th May 2012, 12:19   #225
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Default Re: Availing Gratituty

Quote:
Originally Posted by lambuhere1 View Post
Hi Guys

Need your guidance.

What is the procedure of availing gratituty after completing 5 years in a company ? Do we need to submit any docs to the company or to the PF office ?

Is gratituty taxable in our hands ?

Any guidance on the same in highly appreciated.
If you have not left the company, then you are not entitled to payment of gratuity. 5 years of service is a condition, but also one must separate from the company.

The earlier limit for gratuity was 3.5 lakhs, which was non-taxable. But in the recent Pay Commission , it was increased to a higher amount. I am not sure what the new limit is, and how much of it is non-taxable.
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