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Old 23rd June 2017, 07:30   #601
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

You have to apply for pf transfer it won't happen automatically when you link a new epf number with your uan
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Old 23rd June 2017, 12:20   #602
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

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Originally Posted by Oxy View Post
Thanks for this.

When I try to activate the UAN, it says it's already activated. I then tried the "Forgot Password" and changed my password. But after doing that, when I go to the passbook page and try to login, it says "Invalid UAN or Password".

The "helpline" number given at the top of that page does not work either.
Exactly same result for me yesterday. But when i tried today it worked. Guess it takes a day's time to update. Try today once. It should work.

BTW I couldn't find my passbook. Instead a message saying its a part of exempted establishment(i.e. Trust). Guess that's because most of the Indian IT services firms have their separate trust for maintaining PF.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 14:51   #603
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

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Exactly same result for me yesterday. But when i tried today it worked. Guess it takes a day's time to update. Try today once. It should work.

BTW I couldn't find my passbook. Instead a message saying its a part of exempted establishment(i.e. Trust). Guess that's because most of the Indian IT services firms have their separate trust for maintaining PF.
It takes one day to be updated. Same thing happened for me also. I had called up the helpline number on the site.

They informed me that updation of credentials happens across these two sites twice a day. They asked me to try later. And next day it worked.

I see last year interest credited to my account as well.
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Old 23rd June 2017, 15:36   #604
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

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Originally Posted by hserus View Post
You have to apply for pf transfer it won't happen automatically when you link a new epf number with your uan
Yes, I had applied for the transfer (after re-reading my post, I realized that I hadn't mentioned it). This was during the time when the web portal was down for months on end. They first asked me to do the online way, then asked me to go back to the offline way as the portal was down and finally just sent me a note saying that it was 'done'.

Looking at the status on the website now, I guess it's not really been done ?
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Old 23rd June 2017, 19:49   #605
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

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Originally Posted by sdp1975 View Post
Did you check your passbook from https://passbook.epfindia.gov.in/Mem...Book/Login.jsp ?

Me , my wife's and a colleague's interest has been credited.

Seeing your post, I tried checking the passbooks in both my accounts (old employer and current), but got 'page not found' errors earlier today. But now I am able to see both my passbooks, and the earlier one has been updated till March 31st, 2017.

As the new passbook was not showing data for the past month (solved only today), I used the old system of submitting a physical transfer form to the PF office a couple of days ago, after getting my current employer's signature.

I was assured by the PF officer that the transfer would reflect in my new account by middle of next week. I'll check then and update this thread.

Last edited by vnabhi : 23rd June 2017 at 19:50.
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Old 28th June 2017, 16:37   #606
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

I'm happy to inform that my amount got transferred to my new account over the weekend, barely 2 days after submitting the physical form. I am now able to see both my new and old passbooks on the UAN portal. The new one shows the amount transferred also.

Only small issue is that my PF contribution for April 2017 (I joined on the 17th) does not figure in the new passbook, though my payslip shows it. I spoke to the PF officer and she asked me to find out the ECR number of the challan deposited by my employer. I got it now and sent it across. Let me see how long it takes.

This apart, I could see that interest was paid on my old amount only for April and May. I was told that since the transfer took place before the 25th, interest would not be paid. Instead, it would be paid on the accumulated balance on my new account. So far so good.
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Old 8th August 2017, 19:54   #607
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Folks

I wonder why none of us are aware of a landmark judgement by the Supreme Court in March 2017, wherein they said EPS can be calculated based on the employee's total pay, and not on just basic pay capped at Rs 15000 a month (this was 6500 a month till September, 2014). I got this information from some colleagues in HR of SAIL, where I worked for 2 decades.

I don't have the full picture yet, but here's what I have learnt:
  1. From November 1995, 8.33% of the Employer's contribution of 12% of basic pay was to be diverted towards EPS. The balance 3.67 % was to go the the PF account. But there was a cap of Rs 5000 per month then, therefore the amount in excess was being diverted to the employee's PF balance. The cap was raised to Rs 6500 in August 2001 and to Rs 15000 in September 2014. Therefore amounts of Rs 417 per month only were deducted towards pension fund till August 2001, Rs 541 pm till September 2014, and Rs 1250 thereafter.
  1. Based on the above limits, an employee would be entitled to pension on attaining the age of 58 years. The pension payable per month was a meager amount based on the formula of last paid basic (restricted to Rs 15000 currently) multiplied by number of years of pensionable service, and dividing the amount by 70.
    Based on this, if an employee had a basic of Rs 50000 a month, and 15 years of pensionable service, the pension per month would be Rs 15000 multiplied by 15 and divided by 70. This works out to Rs 3214 per month only!
  1. I believe the March 2017 judgement says the employee's total pay should be taken for computing both EPS deduction, as well as pension calculation. The employee will have the option of diverting funds from his PF balance to the pension fund in order to be eligible for higher pension.
    I infer total pay for people in government means basic and dearness allowance, and for us in IT it means basic and flexi allowances and special pay. I assume it would not include HRA, transport allowance, medical reimbursement, sodexo coupons, etc. Clarity is still lacking on this point.
  1. Going by the above judgement, the EPS deduction per month will increase to a much higher amount instead of the current Rs 1250. Assuming an employee has 50000 rupees as basic pay and another 50000 as special allowance, 8.33% will work out to Rs 8333 per month. Therefore the difference of Rs 8333 and Rs 1250 per month would need to be diverted to the pension fund. This means around Rs 7083 a month would need to be reduced from the PF balance and put into the pension fund.
    With interest calculated from November 1995, this could be in several lakhs. My colleague made a rough calculation and it worked out to Rs 18 lakhs to be reduced from his PF balance.
    Of course, calculations will vary in each of our cases.
  1. But the icing on the cake is the pension entitlement. From a meager Rs 3214, it would shoot up to around Rs 21428 per month! Now that does look attractive, right?

I'll share more information as soon as I get it. Below are some links.

http://english.manoramaonline.com/bu...-benefits.html

Calculation illustration as per EPFO RO Trivendrum.PDF.pdf
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Old 8th August 2017, 20:43   #608
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
But the icing on the cake is the pension entitlement. From a meager Rs 3214, it would shoot up to around Rs 21428 per month! Now that does look attractive, right?
I haven't yet verified this, but if this is true then it is bad news. I already hated the EPS contribution increased from 541 to 1250. For the amount that is being deducted every month, what we eventually receive as pension is peanuts.
Even if one decides to contribute on actual salary
1. PF contribution gets significantly reduced, which in effect means lesser lump sump at retirement.
2. Maximum possible pension after retirement will be 50% of the base salary on which 8.33% is calculated.

Only saving grace here is, it states that pensionable salary is the last 12 months salary on which the 8.33% is contributed.
So I put out another question. Say I contribute at 15000 base pay for 34 years, and for the last year, I contribute at the base of the entire salary, lets say for calculation purposes, 100,000. Will I get a regular pension of
100,000 * 35/70 which comes to 50k a month?
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Old 8th August 2017, 21:44   #609
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

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Originally Posted by vinit.merchant View Post
I haven't yet verified this, but if this is true then it is bad news. I already hated the EPS contribution increased from 541 to 1250. For the amount that is being deducted every month, what we eventually receive as pension is peanuts.


Only saving grace here is, it states that pensionable salary is the last 12 months salary on which the 8.33% is contributed.
So I put out another question. Say I contribute at 15000 base pay for 34 years, and for the last year, I contribute at the base of the entire salary, lets say for calculation purposes, 100,000. Will I get a regular pension of
100,000 * 35/70 which comes to 50k a month?
In the case of older guys like me, it will surely be very attractive. With around 1.6 lacs average salary for the past 12 months, my pension per month would be Rs 34000 instead of Rs 3241 ! Of course, I'd have to divert around 25 lakhs from my PF for this to happen. This is only a rough estimate, as the amount to be diverted with interest needs to be calculated like in the example attached to my earlier post.

As regards your question, if you see the attached example calculation, your contribution towards EPS would need to be re-calculated on your actual pay from the time you are covered under the scheme and not merely on what you have contributed for the past 12 months.

Last edited by vnabhi : 8th August 2017 at 21:48.
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Old 8th August 2017, 22:51   #610
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

Does the scheme have return of capital?

Also, if a person needs to divert Rs 20 lakhs to the scheme, how much does he gain over investing the same amount directly?
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Old 9th August 2017, 11:09   #611
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Does the scheme have return of capital?

Also, if a person needs to divert Rs 20 lakhs to the scheme, how much does he gain over investing the same amount directly?
Not to my knowledge. It is a pension scheme that provides for monthly pension payments as far as I know.

As regards your question, if you invest 20 lakhs in the open market on a mix of mutual funds, you might get around 10 to 12% returns in period of 3 to 5 years. It would have been a much higher return if you'd invested in January 2016, as the sensex rose sharply in the last 20 months. But there is also a risk associated, especially when the market crashes.

Therefore, even if one takes 15% average rate of return over 20 lakhs, it works out to Rs 3 lakhs per annum. This in turn works out to Rs 25000 a month.

But by diverting the same amount to EPS fund from your PF account, your pension will get hiked to Rs 34000 from Rs 3200. This hike of 32 k is quite a lot compared to Rs 25000 indicated above. Also this is risk-free and paid as long as the pensioner lives. After that, his spouse and children get a percentage of the pension for as long as they live.

The only flip side is that the pension per month could be taxed. This apart, the amount diverted (like 20 lakhs) does not get returned after a set period, whereas in the case of mutual funds, you get that amount invested back, apart from accumulated interest.
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Old 19th September 2017, 16:31   #612
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Default Re: The "Provident Fund" Thread

I quit my previous company (Chennai) 5yrs back and initiated a PF transfer to my present company's (Hyderabad) trust twice. For some reason it didnt go through and couldnt personally followup since i was not staying in Chennai.

Last week tried to check the balance and got a message that my account is marked as inoperative account and to contact the EPFO.

What should be my next course of action?
Can I withdraw if not a transfer?
What is the procedure involved?
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