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Old 13th December 2008, 09:56   #16
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The suspects also happened to be using mobile phones. What will they do - ban mobile phones too?
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Old 13th December 2008, 10:16   #17
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As rightly pointed out - this is all hog wash to give a fake sense of security.
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Old 13th December 2008, 10:39   #18
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Okay, We very conveniently blamed the police or ATS for overstepping and diverting from the issues, Did any one bother to read the real news from the news papers. Here it is, quoting it from the newspapers:

Quote:
First, it was the GPS disc mounted on the roof of their car that got people of Khambalia suspicious of their activities. Jamnagar police promptly detained Mahesh Parab and Anil Jagtap, after seeing the GPS system fitted in their car.
Hey btw noob question what is this GPS disc??

Quote:
The laptop contained Army personnel marching at Wagah border, video recording of a bus headed from India to Lahore, clipping of Jamnagar airport that is also used by Air Force fighter planes.
Quote:
The company says the two were surveying Saurashtra to collect data and maps for GPS services meant for mobile phone companies and other corporate houses. But, the company officials had not taken prior permission required for any such activity ," said Jamnagar police officials.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/A...Times of India

Now the questions which should be asked:

Why didn't they take permission for the official survey which is being conducted by a company for commercial purposes despite the information that this is a sensitive area and after the Mumbai attacks strict vigilance is being maintained in this part of the country?

Why shouldn't the police and ATS stop and check suspicious people with high-tech gadgets(for the cops) when they suspect that this can cause harm to the country?

Why shouldnt the cops act on people who are suspiciously moving around air force bases and that too in part of the country where we Pakistan's agencies will surely try and map sensitive areas for their benefit?

Come one, we can critisize cops everytime they goof up but atleast let them work this time.

I know the cops are not always right but neither always wrong too, so I guess we should let them do their work. can we?
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Old 13th December 2008, 11:52   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by setuniket View Post
Okay, We very conveniently blamed the police or ATS for overstepping and diverting from the issues, Did any one bother to read the real news from the news papers. Here it is, quoting it from the newspapers:
Well said,we are in such a time span that we need to think twice before we move in out now,points mentioned in newspapers look valid,what is the use of having clippings of Army personnel marching at Wagah border, video recording of a bus headed from India to Lahore, clipping of Jamnagar airport that is also used by Air Force fighter planes?In one thread we are talking of mumbai saga and here we jump on authorities blaming our privacy and basic rights!Internet cafe obeys some strict logs since long time and they still running,study each law setby our government,on first look it looks a violation of our rights but that is how world shaping up right now.Our govt is not banning GPS if it is used to trace roads in cars/knives if used to cut vegetables/camera to take wildlife shots etc.If I live in a dry state and have a licence/permit to consume alchohol issued by authorised doctor I can consume it at my place and those who live in such state where liquor is freely available can consume it either in rooms or in bar but not in public.
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Old 13th December 2008, 12:24   #20
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Considering the arrest of those two guys, the police did a right job. Those guys need to be arrested as they did not have correct permission.

However, the way they did it, is it right? Did the completely try to find out the things? The first thing they did was to get the media attention. So that they may get their names in the list of promotion or medals. If anybody can remember, please see what the Calcutta police did. They blew up the cover of an intelligence agent by going to the media first before trying to find out the truth. Again, people know about the famous Arushi murder case. And then the scientist frame up by Kerala police.

AFAIK, the Wagah border pics are commercially sold by BSF (I have bought one) and the India - Lahore bus videos are also freely available and has been show on TV many times.
I am not sure of Jamnagar air base, but I have been through that airport and the passenger behaviour would have made the chaos at boarding the bus at many cities look very disciplined and decent. Also not sure what kind of pics they had, but it may be google ones.

I don't think the terrorists or any criminal operates like this, so blatantly open. They would be the most law abiding citizens till they put their plan in operation. The police should change their style of thinking.

If you take the interview of all the police personal and if they are honest, you will be surprised by the reason they have joined the police. I don't remember the time, but India Today carried an article on one guy becoming IAS officer because he could get a dowry of Rs 50 lakh!!!.
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Old 13th December 2008, 12:34   #21
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I agree that the 2 persons arrested in Jamnagar had too much with them. We do have instances of the govt. approving surveying agencies to do GIS Mapping and survey for GPS purposes. If the agency which employed the 2 individuals in question here was conducting a survey for GPS mapping, they should have taken permission from the authorities. If they did not take permission, then the agency and its management should also be put behind bars. Nonetheless, I would still question the imposition of the Official Secrets Act on the 2 individuals. We do have instances of the govt. imposing this act in the past to hide their incompetence.

That said, I don't think that there is much the police can do if an individual is using GPS for personal navigation purposes. This incident will not prevent me from using my unit.
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Old 13th December 2008, 12:55   #22
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Agree, its not a crime to have laptop with photos of Wagah Border, or even Lahore bus or Jamnagar Airprt(?), these minor things take a serious turn when you are caught doing more serious thing. It simply aggravates the suspicion, an act which is not a crime becomes one when the circumstances ask for.

and secondly the terrorists are amongst us, they dont come from another planet, you cant pinpoint and identify them, in a big crowd in Mumbai or in Delhi, in the fast locals and blueline buses/Metro, you cant say the person next to you is just another law abiding citizen or may be he a pontential terrorist in reconnaissance mission. Anyone suspicious will be stopped and checked if possible, whats wrong in that..?
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Old 15th December 2008, 13:58   #23
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Strictly speaking and going strictly by the book - use of GPS requires a licence in India. It may sound ridiculous but true. Apparently use of any radio frequency (including remote controls of all sorts) unless denotified by the government requires a licence. Now the normal gadgets have been denotified. Since the GPS frequency has not been denotified by the government, technically you do need a licence (like we used to need a licence to operate a transistor radio untill Rajiv Gandhi abolished it in the mid 80s).
I first read this ridiculous thing in an interview of the Wireless Advisor to the Government of India, Mr P.K. Garg in the mycoordinates magazine in 06. I don't know if laws have been changed ever since. You can read the interview on the net. it's still there.
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Old 15th December 2008, 14:41   #24
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GPS is a receiver, not a transmitter. By your logic, even a FM radio requires a license!?
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Old 15th December 2008, 15:03   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
GPS is a receiver, not a transmitter. By your logic, even a FM radio requires a license!?
This is not my logic sir. This was stated by the wireless advisor to the government of India - a very senior IAS officer, Mr PK Garg - in a magazine interview. Just google the phrase 'gps india licence".
In the case of FM radio and TV remote or car unlock remote etc those frequencies have been denotified by the government through specific gazette notifications. So you are free to use them without a licence.
Radio frequency of any type is a controlled thing in India.
GPS frequency - at the time of the interview - was not freed through such a notification and therefore by default would need a licence.
Prior to mid 80s radio sets needed a licence. My father used to pay the licence fee at the local post office every month. I don't know how old you are. But those who are in their 40s would remember those dreadful days of licensing raj.

PS: Sending and receiving radio frequency that is not specifically denotified is a crime. The law enforcement agencies can catch you. It's another matter that the local policeman has no clue about such things.

Last edited by Sudipto-S-Team : 15th December 2008 at 15:08.
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Old 15th December 2008, 15:06   #26
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If that is true, it means GPS enabled phones are illegal, and you cannot use them without license!?
this is truly insanity!
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Old 15th December 2008, 15:11   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sudipto-S-Team View Post
Prior to mid 80s radio sets needed a licence. My father used to pay the licence fee at the local post office every month. I don't know how old you are. But those who are in their 40s would remember those dreadful days of licensing raj.
Well said, sir. I still have a copy of my dad's radio licence and the yearly fee that he'd paid. Though I scoff at the rigid licensing raj at that time, the booklet gives me fond memories of my dad and the Philips Novofonic radio that we'd had. The radio was connected to the Gerrard 6-LP changer,....but oh, I'm going OT.
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Old 15th December 2008, 15:52   #28
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Some years back, I was pulled up by a traffic cop on a routine night time nakabandi.
In my leather laptop case, they found the following:
1 laptop
2 cellphones with their respective chargers, headsets, memory cards
1 spare cellphone battery
4 pendrives
1 external hard drive
several other usb cables, etc.

No amount of explaining would help. They got suspicious because I was not carrying the laptop charger. I told them it is a heavier variety and I have 2 of those, 1 at home and other at office.

I made it amply clear to them that all these products were either owned by me or my company and I can prove it to them. Under no circumstance would I pay them any bribes. Finally woke my boss and he gave the cops some choicest marathi shivya and I was allowed to go.

I have stopped using laptop cases since then and use a backpack instead.
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Old 15th December 2008, 15:59   #29
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IMHO, more then GPS, this was the issue that got them in trouble :

Quote:
"Their digital camera too had clippings of some prohibited spots - a photo of Jamnagar airport's main gate, boundary walls and also buildings. The two had also attempted to shoot a blue fighter aircraft. Air Force campus and station is situated right beside the Jamnagar airport and photography and videography in this zone is prohibited," said a senior ATS official.

Last edited by NetfreakBombay : 15th December 2008 at 16:01.
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Old 15th December 2008, 16:32   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
If that is true, it means GPS enabled phones are illegal, and you cannot use them without license!?
this is truly insanity!
I have a feeling a. either the GPS frequency has been denotified recently or b. the phone based GPS actually communicate through the frequency alloted for telecommunication.
I suspect the first hunch is correct (otherwise how could mapmyindia etc sell their GPS legitimately) but I can't find anything on the subject on the net. Will have to find out.
But believe it or not - someone who is conversant with bureaucracy and rules etc told me - selling GPS and using GPS are two different things !! Meaning, you can sell it perfectly legally if it is not a restricted or banned item but not use it. lol . Such ridiculous loopholes are quite possible in India.
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