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Old 19th January 2009, 17:31   #16
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Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
Vasu: Not entirely correct.

Seeing the volume of traffic that has grown exponentially to and from Gurgaon, the Expressway has done its bit to keep the situation from deteriorating. Its not perfect by any stretch of imagination, but neither is it completely useless.
I am only saying that it has barely kept up with demand. Perhaps demand was also supply driven and driven by anticipated supply.

If you look at all road projects, their success is predicated on improving the situation in the short-term. Has that happened? Perhaps the demand forecasts were not correct.
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Old 19th January 2009, 17:53   #17
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Probably.

I have been traveling on that stretch almost daily since October 2006 (when the expressway was under construction) and I have only seen my drive getting easier by the day. However, I cannot comment on the situation before the construction started.

If and when the overhead bridges for pedestrians is provided and the Tag lane is made exclusive for tag owners, the situation would only improve.

Edit: For more info the expressway, read this
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...on-border.html (Quick Guide to KM24 Toll Plaza (Delhi-Gurgaon border))

Last edited by Eddy : 19th January 2009 at 17:58.
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Old 19th January 2009, 19:26   #18
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Vasudeva ji,

Your estimation is quite incorrect. There are two reasons:
a. Peak hour demand has outstripped the non-peak demand growth by miles. And you can't build lanes excessively because....
b. The real mess is in the connecting infrastructure - the exit for Signature towers fouls up because the red light is an abomination courtesy endlessly long/innumerable trucks for Maruti. There are other such examples like the IFFCO chowk snarls for example. And of course, people who can't queue in the left lane but need to crowd the right lane ( Udyog Vihar exit in the morning towards Delhi)

problem is that an expressway is not a one shot solution/panacea for ALL the ills. It has to be part of an integrated transportation solution, but the government is too busy making horrible roads without drains (it fouls up in winter rains!!!) through chacha/bhatija contractors to even bother about what is required.

The biggest scam in rural haryana is the concretisation of roads. They are making almost 10 inch thick roads in RURAL areas of all the places (I went to sultanpur yest) - but no drains. NO prizes for guessing what will happen when it rains.

And there's no light in the tunnel either.
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Old 19th January 2009, 19:51   #19
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
The biggest scam in rural haryana is the concretisation of roads. They are making almost 10 inch thick roads in RURAL areas of all the places.
Its not only rural Haryana, Most of the roads to and in old Gurgaon have been concreted without any emphasis on the water drainage.
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Old 20th January 2009, 09:43   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
If you look at all road projects, their success is predicated on improving the situation in the short-term. Has that happened? Perhaps the demand forecasts were not correct.
Vasu : I am not sure if anybody does forecasting in India and I am sure even if they would have done some they couldnt have provided us with more then a 32 lane toll gate, which is largest in Asia and 3rd largest in the world. The important thing they are not able to manage it the way it was planned and designed.

The 2 major plans were, which have now been stripped by some of us are :
  • The by-lanes were constructed and designed for 2-wheelers but are not used as they were suppose to.
  • The TAG lane will only be used by tag holders which is not happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddy View Post
I have been traveling on that stretch almost daily since October 2006 (when the expressway was under construction) and I have only seen my drive getting easier by the day. However, I cannot comment on the situation before the construction started.
Eddy : I am doing this stretch since July 2003, that is when there was no sign of expressway, there was this normal border ( check nakka types ) then. I stay in south delhi, and some 6 years back it use to take me 1.5 hours to reach home and same is the case today. But i would like to thank to the expressway that i am able to reach home 1.5 hours today, if there was no expressway today, it would have taken me close to 3-4 hours to reach home .



I remember when initially the TAG was introduced it was for some two thousand rupees, i purchased it for that much, and it was fun to drive then as there was this exclusivity around. The authorities goofed up here when they went on distribute the TAGs for free in a lot corporates including mine. Now at times it much easier to pay 17rs and proceed then to wait for your turn in the TAG lanes.
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Old 20th January 2009, 09:55   #21
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I stand by my assertion that internationally road projects are planned and designed to improve the situation through both supply expansion (road building) and demand management (access controls, restrictions).

In fact, growing and dynamic areas such as Gurgaon and NCR may never be free of congestion. Unfortunately, throwing money through supply expansion may not improve the situation beyond a few years, unless demand is managed on a cost-effective basis with the aim of reducing the burden that excessive congestion imposes upon travellers.

Think back and ponder whether your travel time reliability, predictability, and safety have increased. I remember traveling through Delhi-Gurgaon many times over the years. In 2006 Feb, I travelled 4 days in 2 weeks from East Delhi at 840AM and reached Jacaranda Marg in 60-65 mins (through Dhaula Kuan). That is a distance of 37 kms. These days I leave home at 805 AM and barely reach Shipbuilding at 9AM.

Thank God, I am out of here in 3 days!!!!

Anyway, for people interested in knowing the technical aspects of congestion, they can ask me to email them OECD's Managing Urban Congestion, published in 2007.
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:21   #22
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hunji saar,

Very well said. They are predicated. However, like today morning 840am - there was this HUGE jam coming from Delhi side on the Radisson flyover that backed up for miles.

I also realized another shortcoming. I was prev sect 54, now 45. I have reliable 20 min transit time home to nearby airport everyday because I go against the flow

I have found the tag lane very decent and good to use as well!! Normally not too painful. But yes, I can see how people who commute to gurgaon would be pained.

Do mail me the report! pmed my email.
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Old 20th January 2009, 11:26   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Very well said. They are predicated. However, like today morning 840am - there was this HUGE jam coming from Delhi side on the Radisson flyover that backed up for miles.

Do mail me the report! pmed my email.
I also suffered the same jam caused by a brand new Honda City (less than 1 mth old). Its bonnet and bumper were smashed.

Where is your email. PM me.
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Old 20th January 2009, 15:27   #24
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The reason for two wheelers facing issues is the higher average speeds, the surprise element of pedestrians (no pedestrian bothered to notice me ever while on bike) and vehicles entering/exiting where they shouldn't (leisure valley eg). That many bikers ride in wrong lanes/without rear view mirrors and not defensively doesn't help the cause.
Apart from that, the major reason is that high speeding cars or call center cabs often take the left most lane (2-wheeler lane), and hit the slow moving vehicle(bike) in the process. This happened on 16th January as well. I saw the accident scene near Atlas Chowk, there was a Honda City which ran over a motorcyclist who was driving in the correct lane! So, the two-wheeler becomes the victim of accident for no fault of his.


Quote:
That is not only stupid wishful thinking - it is downright lethal. From where someone like me sees it:
a. I pay a considerable amount in taxes, and as a tax payer I don't see ANY reason why I should be denied use of the expressway - it has had many crores from govt as funding.
They are not asking you to pay toll. Now don't ask people flying in helicopters to land on NH-8 too, just because they pay taxes. Every part of the road (including service lane), is for a specific vehicle class. We dont follow this rule, and more importantly, we are not forced to follow it, this is where the problem is.

Quote:
b. I cannot anyways solve the issue of the marauding callcenter cabs or daredevil pedestrians. I can just ride peacefully in my lane (that means the leftmost unless I am overtaking/too many trucks are there) if people will quietly let me do that.
You can do your best, follow lane driving, drive withing limits and so on. But you can't stop 4-wheelers speeding at 120kmph+ on left most lanes hitting you, can you?

Quote:
c. I am more than willing to pay toll (Vadodara Halol tolls bikers) - I see no reason why bikers should be exempt.
Simply because bikers are banned from using expressway.


Quote:
d. The most important problem is that the traffic in the service lanes is PAINFUL. Who are we kidding? At HH Chowk, at Grace Toyota and bang opposite, the service lane is a foot deep puddle of sewer water. Everywhere else, there's 3min long redlights, endless trucks/jams. I see no reason why I should suffer that nuisance because of either indisciplined four wheelers or other suicidal pedestrians/bikers.
Suffering a badly maintained service lane is much better than breaking the law and putting your own life on danger, isnt it?


Quote:
To those wanting to protect two wheelers - thanks but no thanks. Kindly ask your friends/family/... to use the service lane but don't nuisance my life in the name of safety.
You cannot be a solution while being part of the problem itself. This "Laws are meant to be broken" attitude won't help anyone.
True, there should be more challans, cameras etc., but as of today, the situation is what we all know like. Things cannot change overnight. Specially knowing how the governments and administrations in our country work.
But meanwhile, we can bring a change in ourselves. Lets atleast follow the law. Sure it will not completely stop the accidents, but atleast reduce it?

Last edited by DCEite : 20th January 2009 at 15:36.
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Old 27th January 2009, 10:22   #25
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Interesting article in today's HT:
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Old 30th January 2009, 15:26   #26
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
Apart from that, the major reason is that high speeding cars or call center cabs often take the left most lane (2-wheeler lane), and hit the slow moving vehicle(bike) in the process. This happened on 16th January as well. I saw the accident scene near Atlas Chowk, there was a Honda City which ran over a motorcyclist who was driving in the correct lane! So, the two-wheeler becomes the victim of accident for no fault of his.
So where on expressway/service lanes is a biker to consider himself safe?

Quote:
Every part of the road (including service lane), is for a specific vehicle class. We dont follow this rule, and more importantly, we are not forced to follow it, this is where the problem is.
Agree. What I'm saying goes one bit further, and asks for justification of non-provision of a two wheeler lane given the volume of traffic in India. I don't see why someone else should be given the right of way because he bought a different vehicle from mine. I am as much a law abiding, full tax paying citizen of this nation.

Quote:
You can do your best, follow lane driving, drive withing limits and so on. But you can't stop 4-wheelers speeding at 120kmph+ on left most lanes hitting you, can you?
By that rhetorical logic, I'd stop riding bikes in the city or on the highways. Its like the rest of Gurgaon or Delhi is safe. But like I say, please don't banish bikers to the service lanes because the society is downright incapable of disciplining the 4wheelers.



Quote:
Simply because bikers are banned from using expressway.
And why? There is still no rational cause. Let's take a example to eliminate the hyperbole.

Because there are enough perverts in Noida, let the Government ban any woman from being seen in public in Noida - make indian dress/burqahs compulsory to prevent eveteasing - but no one implements such ridiculous "solutions", do they?

Why this ostrich solution to bikers, when the madness is much worse in the service lanes.

Quote:
Suffering a badly maintained service lane is much better than breaking the law and putting your own life on danger, isnt it?
Like I said, please let me lead my life peacefully.

Its a downright stupid vicious circle - because 4 wheelers are indisciplined (just like everyone else) - 2wheelers are confined to service lanes - where their time gets wasted while they are as subject to marauding call center cabs and stupid drivers like elsewhere.

If one is not to protest stupid nonsensical laws, then we might as well be sheep. This is a democracy.

Quote:
You cannot be a solution while being part of the problem itself.
That is because your definition of the problem is WRONG. The proposed solution is to discipline the wrong guys. Pushing bikes to service lanes will NOT stop the accidents. Please smell the roses.

Quote:
This "Laws are meant to be broken" attitude won't help anyone.
Correction: Its more of not obeying irrational laws, and doing what's safest and best for me.

Why don't you come and experience the expressway in all its peak hour glory on bike sometime? I'm game to have you as pillion.

Quote:
True, there should be more challans, cameras etc., but as of today, the situation is what we all know like. Things cannot change overnight. Specially knowing how the governments and administrations in our country work.
Meaning - give up hope.

Quote:
But meanwhile, we can bring a change in ourselves. Lets atleast follow the law. Sure it will not completely stop the accidents, but atleast reduce it?
What you somehow refuse to realize is that defensive/adept bikers are less at risk, and that the alternative is grossly inconvenient and equally unsafe.

Its quite easy to pass such pity-full comments on an internet car forum, if you've not commuted everyday by bike and suffered the alternative, one can easily preach a medicine that one neither understands, nor ever will taste.
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Old 4th September 2009, 11:56   #27
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My office is near Hero Honda Chowk. After last night's rains, this place has become a mess, literally! Reason - Waterlogging.

It was more like a swimming pool infact, with over 3-4 feet deep water in the side-lane, and over a feet on the main expressway itself. Saw lots of cars being towed away by cranes. Water had even entered into interiors of the cars!

And, this is not the first time it has happened. Whenever it rains, the scene is similar on this stretch of the expressway. Why don't authorities do something? I feel like being cheated. After paying toll, do we deserve these kinds of road/infra?
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Old 4th September 2009, 13:07   #28
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Originally Posted by horsepower View Post
It is more frustrating driving on the expressway then on the normal road.

I do Gurgaon-Manesar and Gurgaon-delhi, sometimes both on a single day, I feel cheated after paying so much as toll tax, one has to still wait in TAG lines for stupid driver's in the TAG lanes without TAG's, 2-wheelers and other traffic which is not supposed to be there, pedestrian risking thier lives and motorist's in order to cross over to other side to reach thier homes and offices.

It is one badly planned expressway.
I disagree with everyone who says that this is a "badly planned expressway"
IMO, On the contrary its a very well planned expressway.
think about it, you have nearly 4-6 wide lanes each side, a very smooth road, great lighting, convenient entry and exit ramps, a MASSIVE toll plaza, clearly written directions, A decent speed limit.. what else can you ask for?

So why is the Driving experience so pathetic?
Thats simply because of the brazen ignorance and disregard of Road Manners and Laws by the people using it.

Why do you find Trucks moving at a snails pace in the rightmost fast lane blocking all traffic? why does Nothing work to move their slow A@@ out of the way, Even if you continuously honk or flash your lights -
Because the Road is their Playground where they will do as they please

why do you find Humongous queues despite of having a massive toll plaza?
Because of dumb idiots, who have no patience or manners to follow a queue system, you will notice Call Center Sumo and Qualis wallas or even private cars/Trucks cutting in an already formed queue because according to them the road and Traffic is a game where everyone makes their own rules.

Why do you find Bikers/Pedestrians dead on the expressway road?
Because despite of Clear Signs and Warnings given to them, they still want to dare going on an fast paced, chaotic deathtrap of an expressway, because that will apparently save them a "few minutes".
Yes,agreed, the security guards deployed there should be more efficient in preventing them to enter, but ain't the bikers/Pedestrians smart enough to use simple common sense and make sensible decisions, specially decisions that could very well turn out to be a matter of life and death?

Why cant you maintain a constant, Decent speed on an expressway which is meant for smooth sailing and high speeds?

because no matter what the Government does for us, we will never be able to understand and follow "a system", because despite of being taught to be civilized and follow queues and maintain discipline, in school, we thought it only applied to school and left it there. heck, most of the people using that expressway never even went to school.

unfortunately, this is the true face of our great country. Bah !
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