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Old 9th February 2009, 19:43   #1
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Default Can a Company Deny PF payment after leaving Service?

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Now comes the classic "Tata" part. TCS has not honored the employment offer till today.
I left TCS 3 years back and they still didn't pay my dues (PF etc.) When I contacted HR, they said as per their policy, as I didn't stay in India for 6 months after returning from abroad, they have marked me as "absconding" so I won't get my dues!

Some of my colleagues managed to get part of their (same situation as mine) dues after paying 2.5-3 lakhs rupees as "damage payment" to TCS.
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Old 9th February 2009, 20:35   #2
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I left TCS 3 years back and they still didn't pay my dues (PF etc.) When I contacted HR, they said as per their policy, as I didn't stay in India for 6 months after returning from abroad, they have marked me as "absconding" so I won't get my dues!

Some of my colleagues managed to get part of their (same situation as mine) dues after paying 2.5-3 lakhs rupees as "damage payment" to TCS.
Actually you need to resign properly and take your service certificate . It depends on what you signed as service agreement
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Old 27th February 2009, 09:37   #3
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Originally Posted by sbasak View Post
I left TCS 3 years back and they still didn't pay my dues (PF etc.) When I contacted HR, they said as per their policy, as I didn't stay in India for 6 months after returning from abroad, they have marked me as "absconding" so I won't get my dues!

Some of my colleagues managed to get part of their (same situation as mine) dues after paying 2.5-3 lakhs rupees as "damage payment" to TCS.
Kind of OT for this thread, but since its about TCS.

They will send you home for good if you take pix inside campus (maybe only for training sites, but still)
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Old 27th February 2009, 10:34   #4
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Originally Posted by sbasak View Post
I left TCS 3 years back and they still didn't pay my dues (PF etc.) When I contacted HR, they said as per their policy, as I didn't stay in India for 6 months after returning from abroad, they have marked me as "absconding" so I won't get my dues!

Some of my colleagues managed to get part of their (same situation as mine) dues after paying 2.5-3 lakhs rupees as "damage payment" to TCS.
Dude .. I was with TCS for 3 years and now I am an Ex-TCSer ...

In this situation how can you blame the company ? If I am not wrong, before going abroad you must have signed a new agreement on a stamp paper that you have to stay minimum of 6 months after coming from Onsite failing which you have to pay 5 lac INR ... ( this does not hold good for travel less than 30 days) .. Now you broke the agreement .. did not pay the damage amount what you agreed for .. and how can you expect the company to be fair to you ?

Its a common practice everywhere that if you are not resigning properly then you wont get any service certificate, character certificate etc. How do you expect to get the PF when you have ditched them ... I think TCS treated your colleagues well to pay a part of their PF .. and moreover I dont think you will be allowed to make a come back to the company at a later stage.

Lets be fair to our organization first then ask them to be fair to us.
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Old 27th February 2009, 11:36   #5
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Originally Posted by sbasak View Post
I left TCS 3 years back and they still didn't pay my dues (PF etc.) When I contacted HR, they said as per their policy, as I didn't stay in India for 6 months after returning from abroad, they have marked me as "absconding" so I won't get my dues!

Some of my colleagues managed to get part of their (same situation as mine) dues after paying 2.5-3 lakhs rupees as "damage payment" to TCS.
Did you resign or did you leave?
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Old 27th February 2009, 12:02   #6
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Arent such agreements illegal unless they are both ways. For example company should also sign that they cannot terminate you for 6 months after returning from on-site!
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Old 27th February 2009, 12:03   #7
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How do you expect to get the PF when you have ditched them ... I think TCS treated your colleagues well to pay a part of their PF
That is illegal. PF can not even be claimed in case of loan defaults.

A RTI application to labour commissioner will set the company right.
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Old 27th February 2009, 12:33   #8
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That is illegal. PF can not even be claimed in case of loan defaults.

A RTI application to labour commissioner will set the company right.
Well dont know about this legal stuff related to PF .. But after signing an agreement on a stamp paper if a person is not respecting the terms and conditions and quiting without informing, then he is liable to pay the damage amount for sure .. So before demanding for the PF or the transfer of PF he or she should settle the damage amount otherwise the company wont even bother to speak. Have seen number of people quiting in the same way but havent heard of any one who wanted to claim his PF. So I just wanted to tell before expecting the company to do right thing, we should be correct.

You can very well file an RTI application, but be also ready to pay the damage amount for which you agreed to pay on a legal paper before boarding the flight.
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Old 27th February 2009, 13:19   #9
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sam_boy, just because something is signed on stamp paper does not make it stand up in court. I am not a lawyer, but from what I have heard, bonds were never enforceable in court because they were one sided.
For example 1 year bond that you won't leave company. The bond is invalid unless company also puts in bond that it cannot sack you before 1 year is over.
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Old 27th February 2009, 14:06   #10
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You can very well file an RTI application, but be also ready to pay the damage amount for which you agreed to pay on a legal paper before boarding the flight.
Not sure about legality of such bonds, but PF is clearly out of bounds from ANY company/person.

As per Indian law, PF along with few other things like agriculture land can not be used as lien.
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Old 27th February 2009, 15:03   #11
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The Company will not respond unless damage payment is made to them.
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Old 27th February 2009, 17:17   #12
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Well dont know about this legal stuff related to PF .. But after signing an agreement on a stamp paper if a person is not respecting the terms and conditions and quiting without informing, then he is liable to pay the damage amount for sure .. .
FYI - There has been a supreme court ruling that no organisation/body/AOP/person can compel another to work (with pay obviously )

Secondly any agreement made in contravention to existing rules in the nation cannot supersede the law, in this case the PF act.

Third - PF cannot be garnished (attached) nor can any company have any control over the PF funds of an individual working for them, as the law is very precise in this respect, if they have made a deduction on your account by way of PF, by the 15th of the next month it has to be deposited with the PF commissioner's office. If not then the person goes to jail.

In your first sentence you have said that you are not aware of the law. This is precisely the malaise in our country, someone says something and we obey it because of the fancy conundrums associated with it (Stamp paper, judicial stamp paper etc), tell me if I were to get a court attested stamp paper will that entitle me to own the Taj Mahal ? , similiarly one cannot make an agreement contravening any act in force in the country.

Coming to lay offs, nothing is fair. In the USA this is a done thing because the law is fast and speedy, here in India its not the same, enforcement and conviction rates are very very low.

Cheers
M M

Last edited by Technocrat : 5th March 2009 at 15:30. Reason: Splitting post across two threads
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Old 27th February 2009, 18:34   #13
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Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
FYI - There has been a supreme court ruling that no organisation/body/AOP/person can compel another to work (with pay obviously )

Secondly any agreement made in contravention to existing rules in the nation cannot supersede the law, in this case the PF act.

Third - PF cannot be garnished (attached) nor can any company have any control over the PF funds of an individual working for them, as the law is very precise in this respect, if they have made a deduction on your account by way of PF, by the 15th of the next month it has to be deposited with the PF commissioner's office. If not then the person goes to jail.

In your first sentence you have said that you are not aware of the law. This is precisely the malaise in our country, someone says something and we obey it because of the fancy conundrums associated with it (Stamp paper, judicial stamp paper etc), tell me if I were to get a court attested stamp paper will that entitle me to own the Taj Mahal ? , similiarly one cannot make an agreement contravening any act in force in the country.

......

Hope this clarifies your doubts.

Cheers
M M
Excellent post mmmjgm. Makes a lot of sense.

BTW, your handle is VERY VERY difficult to remember.


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Old 27th February 2009, 20:02   #14
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Originally Posted by mmmjgm View Post
FYI - There has been a supreme court ruling that no organisation/body/AOP/person can compel another to work (with pay obviously )

Secondly any agreement made in contravention to existing rules in the nation cannot supersede the law, in this case the PF act.

Third - PF cannot be garnished (attached) nor can any company have any control over the PF funds of an individual working for them, as the law is very precise in this respect, if they have made a deduction on your account by way of PF, by the 15th of the next month it has to be deposited with the PF commissioner's office. If not then the person goes to jail.

In your first sentence you have said that you are not aware of the law. This is precisely the malaise in our country, someone says something and we obey it because of the fancy conundrums associated with it (Stamp paper, judicial stamp paper etc), tell me if I were to get a court attested stamp paper will that entitle me to own the Taj Mahal ? , similiarly one cannot make an agreement contravening any act in force in the country.

Cheers
M M
I know well that the PF is the employee's money not the employer's ... The company in any case can not add the PF to improve the looks of the Balance sheet.

But what matters here is the case of an employee who has not resigned properly and whose job has been terminated abruptly ... I just meant to say if some one is correct on his front then these things cant go wrong ... Now I am not getting into Judicial thing .. Well, I am a simple law fearing Indian national and always try to obey the things where I sign and always expect things to be straight.

My point is why be on the wrong side first ?? Pls do not misunderstand the argument .. I myself resigned from TCS and never ever had any complaints during the settlement part ( i had my share of problems there but who is all happy in the job ? ) .

This is a recession topic and lets not get into this deeply .. I just conveyed my point .. With no disregard to any one.
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Old 27th February 2009, 22:00   #15
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Originally Posted by sam_boy View Post

But what matters here is the case of an employee who has not resigned properly and whose job has been terminated abruptly ... I just meant to say if some one is correct on his front then these things cant go wrong ... Now I am not getting into Judicial thing .. Well, I am a simple law fearing Indian national and always try to obey the things where I sign and always expect things to be straight.

.
Not resigned properly means
1) Absconded, without notice,
2) Resigned without serving/paying notice
3) Resigned with paying notice /without serving notice
4) Resigned with serving notice hence no need for paying notice.
5) Terminated - very rare.
6) Deceased, no one can do anything here.
7) Medical reasons - involuntary.

These are the possible scenarios for leaving an organisation. Wont get into transfers or onsites.

Now a bond is illegal, if under a bond and the HR representative is not signing on your PF release papers (application to withdraw or transfer PF to new employer) you can send in a notice and then a lawyer's notice to the effect to comply with your requests to transfer/release PF from the PF commissioner's office.

Meanwhile if you try the pyaar mohabbat route with the HR it pays off most of the times, else you have the legal route.

Any which ways, if in a bond or without, the worst penalty the court (in very adverse conditions) can levy the basic pay as a notice period pay to the complainant. (employee)

The bond in all shapes/sizes/colours and entities cannot be enforced upon you, its only a tool to make you reconsider your decision to leave an organisation. Basically bond in the absence of any liability upon the employee is as good as toilet paper (liability means outstanding company loans, unreturned blackberry/laptop/confidential material relating to a project etc. Restricting access to company IT property, resources etc).

The last sentence in the above paragraph is very very difficult to prove in court as it takes an IP attorney (himanshugoswami is one) there are other lawyers too on the forum as well. Honestly i do not know whether the labour court has the ability to deal with an IP case, more likely the HC in your area can take cognizance again, very difficult to prove.

Trust me there are worst situations where harassment of a company to ex employees is concerned, please PM me in case you want further info.

Cheers.
M M
P.S, I understand your reasons to post, however the forum is the place where information is asked for, and given.

Last edited by mmmjgm : 27th February 2009 at 22:11.
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