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Old 10th May 2005, 23:49   #16
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hi all, am using IE 6 since a very long time and have faced NO PROBLEMS, but i had problems with Netscape always...

i'm thinking to try mozilla sometime soon only for all your advise that TBHP site works fine in this browser...(no idea the reason for it???)

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Old 10th May 2005, 23:49   #17
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freak it doesnt work man i tried it a zillion times
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Old 11th May 2005, 00:05   #18
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hey cheating death ,
try mozilla it works fine.it works just fine no problem with anysite and nothing pops up while using mozilla.

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Old 11th May 2005, 00:14   #19
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revv i still love netscape ... i want netscape
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Old 11th May 2005, 12:54   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheatingdeath
revv i still love netscape ... i want netscape
wow nice to meet a Netscape fan
First thing you should do is scan your computer for viruses, spyware
then check whether you had any error while installing any windows update? if yes restore your computer to previous state (using system restore) if not try to install that update once again

delete netscape application data (in Start > Run type %appdata% & delete netscape folder if you have any data like mails etc on Netscape then move that folder to someplace)

download Netscape from Netscape.com WITHOUT using any download manager
install

& if it does not work you can always resinstall WIndows
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Old 11th May 2005, 13:11   #21
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cheatingdeath,

Option 1: Clean all netscape related data from your box including anything inside "application data" and "local data" in your "documents and settings" folder. Try now!
Option 2: At the time of booting, boot with last known good profile option. Install windows updates. They mostly don't do harm to your computer (well, mostly!). Update your windows with all latest critical security related patches. Other patches, you can ignore. Try now!
Option 3: You really dont need netscape, trust me! Mozilla FireFox IS Netscape (in fact, Netscape navigator was supposed to be pronounced as mozilla). It is far more feature rich than IE (attention: all IE lovers), almost couple of generations ahead and most of the sites work fantastically. If any site doesn't work, there is a FireFox extension which lets you open in IE without leaving FireFox. Outlook 2003 compares well against Thunderbird, but IE is hopeless when compared against FireFox.
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Old 11th May 2005, 13:27   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
cheatingdeath,

Option 3: You really dont need netscape, trust me! Mozilla FireFox IS Netscape (in fact, Netscape navigator was supposed to be pronounced as mozilla). It is far more feature rich than IE (attention: all IE lovers), almost couple of generations ahead and most of the sites work fantastically. If any site doesn't work, there is a FireFox extension which lets you open in IE without leaving FireFox. Outlook 2003 compares well against Thunderbird, but IE is hopeless when compared against FireFox.
I was waiting for someone to say this for a long time!

first of all Netscape is not Firefox
In late 90's Netscape went open source (i.e. they published their code) & long with that they decided to build a browser from scratch
Hence Mozilla browser was born & it made well known that Netscape will support Mozilla but will use Mozilla's code in their product which they do.

Later on Mozilla foundation was established. By the time Mozilla hit version 1.0 it was too feature rich (mail, composer, chat etc) also its size was more compared to its rival Opera (as IE comes pre-installed it was not considered) & hence inorder to creat just browser which will be small in size, consume less memory Mozilla Firefox browser was built (it has gone zillion name changes)

When firefox hit its milestone (version 1.0 final) its userbase was way too small for hackers to concentrate & hence it was reffered to as safe browser however at same time MS responded with Windows XP SP2 which included lots & lots of security enhancements

And now since Firefox has a bigger userbase it is becoming more & more vulnarable (all this with userbase less than 10%)
Please read this article http://www.ebcvg.com/articles.php?id=708

So if you really want to use alternative browser go for Opera. www.opera.com its very small, bloody fast & wayy much secure than any of its rivals
and if not then IE 6 with SP2 is a good combination just make sure to install a well reputed antivirus & enable windows firewall

And comparing Thunderbird with Outlook 2003 ? :WTF:
Have you used Outlook 2003? heck even Outlook Express is better than thunderbird

Last edited by adya33 : 11th May 2005 at 13:29.
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Old 11th May 2005, 13:43   #23
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Looks like some interesting debate coming up now

Quote:
I was waiting for someone to say this for a long time!
first of all Netscape is not Firefox
In late 90's Netscape went open source (i.e. they published their code) & long with that they decided to build a browser from scratch
Hence Mozilla browser was born & it made well known that Netscape will support Mozilla but will use Mozilla's code in their product which they do.
Well, Mozilla code is still backported to Netscape. And most importantly, they use Gecko rendering engine, which makes it the same browser at heart.

IE 6 IS simply outdated browser and if you really want to close your eyes and stick with it, then its your choice. I have used Opera as well, but the discussion is between IE and FireFox, so let me not go off topic.

Quote:
And comparing Thunderbird with Outlook 2003 ? :WTF:
Have you used Outlook 2003? heck even Outlook Express is better than thunderbird
Really? Based on your comment, it appears that you have never used Thunderbird. I suggest, you go and check it out first and then come back with a comparison.

BTW, I have so far used VM, ELM, PINE, MH, MUTT, Outlook Express, Outlook 2000, Outlook 2003, Netscape Mail agent, Mozilla mail agent, Thunderbird (and few more) as my mail clients and I sure know what I am saying. And also, to be on record, I currently use Outlook 2003 and Thunderbird both. Integrated corporate Calendar support is the only thing that makes me use Outlook 2003, but for anything else Thunderbird is far superior.
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Old 11th May 2005, 14:05   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RX135
Looks like some interesting debate coming up now



Well, Mozilla code is still backported to Netscape. And most importantly, they use Gecko rendering engine, which makes it the same browser at heart.

IE 6 IS simply outdated browser and if you really want to close your eyes and stick with it, then its your choice. I have used Opera as well, but the discussion is between IE and FireFox, so let me not go off topic.
As I have said that Netscape uses Mozilla's code
And they share same rendering engine but there are a few changes in Netscape (AOL integration etc)
and no one is closing eyes & saying IE is best, but have you looked how many vulnarabilities have been found in Firefox after version 1. 0 compares to IE6 SP2
IE wins in that section, MS has had a lot of trouble with security in past but finally they are getting their act right & doing the right thing

IE6 SP2 also gives more information about security, filedownload riscks etc. When launching EXE from Firefox download manager downloaded gives message like "exe files may contain virus & all" &
IT GIVES YOU OPTION TO NEVER REMIND YOU OF SAME THING AGAIN isn't that funny

also as for Firefox features they have been copied from Opera (tabbed browsing, type as you find, RSS support) Internet Explorer 6 SP2 (blocked popup notification bar, image resizing)

as for Opera I just mentioned for the people who might read this post & will give it a try as it is a really wonderful webbrowser which isn't getting as much attention as it deserves


Quote:
Really? Based on your comment, it appears that you have never used Thunderbird. I suggest, you go and check it out first and then come back with a comparison.
I have used Thunderbird in recent past specially after it hit 1.0 version (which in my opinion was hurried)
and comparing it with Outlook 2003 (which also I have used) is foolish.
Outlook supports contact synchronisation over a lot of PDA/Mobile phones, has a great calendar support, a great task manager, scheduler
the only thing I liked about Thunderbird was RSS support

Outlook 2003 can be compared with Thunderbird + Sunbird http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird.html (but it is still has a long way to go)

Last edited by adya33 : 11th May 2005 at 14:08.
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Old 11th May 2005, 14:36   #25
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As I have said that Netscape uses Mozilla's code
And they share same rendering engine but there are a few changes in Netscape (AOL integration etc)
Such some cosmetic changes dont make them separate browsers. They are the same. Rendering engine is the heart of any browser and both have the same.

Quote:
and no one is closing eyes & saying IE is best, but have you looked how many vulnarabilities have been found in Firefox after version 1. 0 compares to IE6 SP2 IE wins in that section, MS has had a lot of trouble with security in past but finally they are getting their act right & doing the right thing
So far only couple of "extremely critical" security issues have been reported against FireFox whereas with IE there are tons of issues, day in and day out. Spywares, adwares rampage on your systems merrily. If you think, SP2 makes it secure, think twice! There was SP1 earlier as well, which was supposed to make it secure. On 2000, last security patch is SP4. Bottom line is that, one can't be sure. I have SP2 AND some more patches installed on my box. I don't want this discussion to turn from IE v/s FireFox to MS v/s Linux, so I'll stop here.


Quote:
When launching EXE from Firefox download manager downloaded gives message like "exe files may contain virus & all" &
IT GIVES YOU OPTION TO NEVER REMIND YOU OF SAME THING AGAIN isn't that funny
If you have anytime worked on software development, you won't be surprised with that. Different people want different options. e.g. I would never want that message to show up. It is just so obvious for me, so dont want to see that damn message again and again. For typical end user, it will be required.

Quote:
also as for Firefox features they have been copied from Opera (tabbed browsing, type as you find, RSS support) Internet Explorer 6 SP2 (blocked popup notification bar, image resizing)
So, does that make it bad? It does offer far richer features than IE. BTW, Tabbed browsing was invented way back in 1994 by InternetWorks and not by Opera. "Type as you find" has been there in (X)Emacs since ages. I am myself using it for past 10 year.

Quote:
as for Opera I just mentioned for the people who might read this post & will give it a try as it is a really wonderful webbrowser which isn't getting as much attention as it deserves
As I said, discussion started was IE v/s FireFox and not FireFox v/s Opera.


Quote:
I have used Thunderbird in recent past specially after it hit 1.0 version (which in my opinion was hurried)
and comparing it with Outlook 2003 (which also I have used) is foolish.
Outlook supports contact synchronisation over a lot of PDA/Mobile phones, has a great calendar support, a great task manager, scheduler
the only thing I liked about Thunderbird was RSS support
Are you talking about Mail agent or a calendar or a scheduler? As a mail agent, Thunderbird surpasses it in every sense. Calendar support is better for Outlook simply because it is MS product and Exchange is MS product as well.

As a mail agent, Outlook doesnt even connect to 2 exchange servers in same profile. Its message searches take ages. Stores every thing in one big .pst, which if corrupted, leaves you nowhere. I still suggest, you USE and compare both clients feature by feature, and you wont regret choosing Thunderbird. My company pays hefty sum for outlook license, but still I find Thunderbird more useful, which is just a free tool. That sums it all up.

Last edited by RX135 : 11th May 2005 at 14:47.
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Old 11th May 2005, 21:02   #26
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Such some cosmetic changes dont make them separate browsers. They are the same. Rendering engine is the heart of any browser and both have the same.
they ARE two different browsers who have same rendering engine
Don't Alto & WagonR have 1.1 engine???? but they are TWO DIFFERENT cars


Quote:
So far only couple of "extremely critical" security issues have been reported against FireFox whereas with IE there are tons of issues, day in and day out.
that is my point! it has hardly been a year (or less than that) since version 1.0 came out, with market share less than 10% & already it has had few serious flaws, mainly spoofing vulnarabilities,
http://secunia.com/product/4227/#advisories - please read

again as I have said IE has had its share of problems before but MS is getting its act together & SP2 is a major upgrade from SP1 (SP2 is more like a new OS while SP1 was just a collection of patches)

Quote:
If you have anytime worked on software development, you won't be surprised with that. Different people want different options. e.g. I would never want that message to show up. It is just so obvious for me, so dont want to see that damn message again and again. For typical end user, it will be required.
isn't firefox, internet explorer all targeted towards "JOE" users more & not geeks like us!
I also hate to see the message again & again BECAUSE I know what damanges might be done but 95% of users out there don't know that!

Quote:
Are you talking about Mail agent or a calendar or a scheduler? As a mail agent, Thunderbird surpasses it in every sense. Calendar support is better for Outlook simply because it is MS product and Exchange is MS product as well.
actually here depends as what you want. I want a PIM than just a mail agent, but then again it depends on what you want
as I have said I have used both of 'em

being free isn't good enough for choosing any software, it more about getting things done & if Outlook does it better then why not pay for it? BTW Thunderbird is not a free as like BSD it comes under GNU liecense which says that if you hack its code & make changes then you are support to submit them to thunderbird code
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Old 11th May 2005, 21:27   #27
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Quote:
BTW Thunderbird is not a free as like BSD it comes under GNU liecense which says that if you hack its code & make changes then you are support to submit them to thunderbird code
sorry actually ment to say GPL liecence
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Old 11th May 2005, 22:45   #28
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Quote:
So if you really want to use alternative browser go for Opera. www.opera.com its very small, bloody fast & wayy much secure than any of its rivals
: thumbs up : I use ONLY Opera since the last 2 months (love it to death). Its now the only way to surf for me.

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Old 12th May 2005, 12:17   #29
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they ARE two different browsers who have same rendering engine Don't Alto & WagonR have 1.1 engine???? but they are TWO DIFFERENT cars
Mind you, they are browsers and not cars. Speed of browser, parsing, laying out controls on screen et.al. depends on the engine. For Netscape and Mozilla, even the add-on features are almost the same. If you want to call AIM integration etc. as features or differentiaters, then I am speechless

Quote:
that is my point! it has hardly been a year (or less than that) since version 1.0 came out, with market share less than 10% & already it has had few serious flaws, mainly spoofing vulnarabilities,
http://secunia.com/product/4227/#advisories - please read
It is open source and open to scrutiny of millions of people, who can even look at code to find out security flaws. So, there should have been tons of flaws, but there aren't. Second thing, it makes it more solid and foolproof since it goes through far more QA than closed source software. If you talking about maturity of product, as a software matures, it becomes more and more stable. What do you want to choose? A product which has 2 security defects, which are anyway fixed (see Mozilla foundations take on that flaw also), or a product, which had security flaws all over the places right from its birth. And IE is supposed to be a mature product. Microsoft had no intentions to even work on it till very very recently. FireFox is evolving.

Quote:
again as I have said IE has had its share of problems before but MS is getting its act together & SP2 is a major upgrade from SP1 (SP2 is more like a new OS while SP1 was just a collection of patches)
Wait for few months (or days?)! you'll have new OS (with fresh defects) or another Service pack. Period.

Quote:
isn't firefox, internet explorer all targeted towards "JOE" users more & not geeks like us! I also hate to see the message again & again BECAUSE I know what damanges might be done but 95% of users out there don't know that!
So? It has option for both, geeks and dumbos. Show or dont show the dialog.


Quote:
actually here depends as what you want. I want a PIM than just a mail agent
So, how does that make Thunderbird bad mail client (to the the extent of calling it "WTF?" ) ? It does perfectly what it is supposed to do.

Quote:
being free isn't good enough for choosing any software, it more about getting things done & if Outlook does it better then why not pay for it?
Did I say, I chose it because it is free? In fact, we have already paid for Outlook and I am using Thunderbird.

Quote:
BTW Thunderbird is not a free as like BSD it comes under GNU liecense which says that if you hack its code & make changes then you are support to submit them to thunderbird code.
It has a specific purpose. I suggest, read one of RMS's speeches to understand the philosophy behind it. (RMS = Richard Stallman). I don't agree with all RMS talk, but he does have sound logic behind the philosophy.

I am not exactly sure if Mozilla has Open Source license or LGPL or GPL. I think, it is open source and not GPL. There is lot of difference between the two. In terms of licensing and in terms of philosophy.
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Old 12th May 2005, 13:05   #30
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Mind you, they are browsers and not cars. Speed of browser, parsing, laying out controls on screen et.al. depends on the engine. For Netscape and Mozilla, even the add-on features are almost the same. If you want to call AIM integration etc. as features or differentiaters, then I am speechless
AIM integration might be useless for us same with local weather search.
however online radio, stock quotes which is integrated into Netscape are indeed features if you don't want to call them feature & keep saying these two are same browsers then its your choice

and as for open source myth, the main reason it has servived is because it has had a very small user database.
it is *ALSO* assumed that anyone who will find a bug will submit it! but its not an ideal world most of hackers won't even publish it & use it to their advantage

as for IE6 having flaws from birth could you please provide source

Quote:
So? It has option for both, geeks and dumbos. Show or dont show the dialog.
but the problem is that the default selected option is "OK" while chances are most users won't even read the message & will just hit OK and also dumbos will be needed to remind the risks everytime for this.
if it had any option under about:config which most geeks use then it would have been fine

Quote:
So, how does that make Thunderbird bad mail client (to the the extent of calling it "WTF?" ) ? It does perfectly what it is supposed to do.
you compared Thunderbird with Outlook 03 which has a tons of more features than thunderbird
as for using thunderbird its your choice to use it.

and Mozilla has its own "Mozilla Public License (MPL)" (sorry for mentioning it as GPL) according to which
"3.2. Availability of Source Code.

Any Modification which You create or to which You contribute must be made available in Source Code form under the terms of this License either on the same media as an Executable version or via an accepted Electronic Distribution Mechanism to anyone to whom you made an Executable version available;"
for complete liecence http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/MPL-1.1.html

Quote:
Wait for few months (or days?)! you'll have new OS (with fresh defects) or another Service pack. Period.
I didn't knew getting updates was a BAD thing.
anyways MS shipped SP2 CD for free (YES FREE) no shipping & handling cost to anyone everyone this is something Open Source ppl will never be able to do.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/d...s/default.mspx

Even the newly launched Windows XP 64bit will be given for FREE to users having original copies of Win XP Pro 32bit all you have to do is play for shipping charges
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