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Old 12th May 2005, 13:34   #31
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however online radio, stock quotes which is integrated into Netscape are indeed features if you don't want to call them feature
They are not exactly features, they are extensions or add-ONs. And stock quotes are available with FireFox.

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and as for open source myth, the main reason it has servived is because it has had a very small user database. it is *ALSO* assumed that anyone who will find a bug will submit it! but its not an ideal world most of hackers won't even publish it & use it to their advantage
Hackers of course won't (neither is that expected), but beta testers would. Go through bugzilla anytime to check it(which is again Mozilla product).

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as for IE6 having flaws from birth could you please provide source
You want me to do this? Just google for security flaws in IE and you'll know all by yourself. There are just too many.

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but the problem is that the default selected option is "OK" while chances are most users won't even read the message & will just hit OK and also dumbos will be needed to remind the risks everytime for this.
Even dumbos, need to check the checkbox, which he won't care and hence, shall keep on getting same message.

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you compared Thunderbird with Outlook 03 which has a tons of more features than thunderbird as for using thunderbird its your choice to use it.
I told you earlier, except calendar support, there is absolutely nothing special in outlook 2003. No, not even the much talked about "followup" folder! I use both every day. Thunderbird is superior as mailing agent.

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Any Modification which You create or to which You contribute must be made available in Source Code form under the terms of this License either on the same media as an Executable version or via an accepted Electronic Distribution Mechanism to anyone to whom you made an Executable version available;"
This IS the philosophy behind it. You can't take my source code for free and then sell if off without giving the source code. If that is allowed, Microsoft will start packaging Mozilla as part of Windows next day

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I didn't knew getting updates was a BAD thing.
It is not. At least, they are fixing the security flaws. But every day updates mean, tons of security breaches which are there and which are being fixed.

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anyways MS shipped SP2 CD for free (YES FREE) no shipping & handling cost to anyone everyone this is something Open Source ppl will never be able to do.
Do you think MS is for charity? They are giving it free because of the serious problems in their software. Open source doesnt charge you exhorbitant money (or any money). Obviously, they cant afford to do so.

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Even the newly launched Windows XP 64bit will be given for FREE to users having original copies of Win XP Pro 32bit all you have to do is play for shipping charges.
That is a nice thing to do. It just means that they are feeling the heat and are being proactive. NT was supposed to eat into high end Unix market, which it started doing, but then Linux more than spoiled the party. It started eating into MS's homeground, i.e. desktop computing.

Last edited by RX135 : 12th May 2005 at 13:35.
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Old 12th May 2005, 14:04   #32
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They are not exactly features, they are extensions or add-ONs. And stock quotes are available with FireFox
they are integrated in Netscape while for FF extensions are available


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You want me to do this? Just google for security flaws in IE and you'll know all by yourself. There are just too many.
u said IE has flaws from ground up source please with its rating.

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I told you earlier, except calendar support, there is absolutely nothing special in outlook 2003. No, not even the much talked about "followup" folder! I use both every day. Thunderbird is superior as mailing agent.
Schedular, Task manager are not useful? funny isn't it
please give me WHY Thunderbird is superior?? I have also used both please give me features WHY?

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It is not. At least, they are fixing the security flaws. But every day updates mean, tons of security breaches which are there and which are being fixed.
Everyday? It is second Tuesday every month. And with Automatic Updates on there is no need to worry about any update. Which is far better than to download entire setup again as like Firefox (and that too on desktop without even asking)


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Do you think MS is for charity? They are giving it free because of the serious problems in their software. Open source doesnt charge you exhorbitant money (or any money). Obviously, they cant afford to do so
They are giving it for free because they care for users who don't have access to highspeed internet connection.
And as for Open Source they won't charge you exhorbitant money but they always keep on asking for money
And as for Open source not affording that is the whole point MS has far better resources than any of its competitor

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That is a nice thing to do. It just means that they are feeling the heat and are being proactive.
they are simply giving it because they want your who have paid for 32bit but have 64but processor get maximum advantage

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but then Linux more than spoiled the party. It started eating into MS's homeground, i.e. desktop computing.
Linux on Desktop. Thats the best joke ever
2001 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2002 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2003 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2004 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2005 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
this just goes on & on & on
Linux on desktop is just a joke! pure joke

The best OS on desktop is OS 10.4 a.k.a. Tiger by Apple computers
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Old 12th May 2005, 15:02   #33
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they are integrated in Netscape while for FF extensions are available
Just packaging differently (that too minor differences) doesn't make different browsers.

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u said IE has flaws from ground up source please with its rating.
I didn't spend any time to search, but just refering to your favourite Secunia. http://secunia.com/product/11. And, these are just security flaws. Not all bugs. Even right now, it is "highly critical". About doubts on open source QA, the "extremely critical" defects in FireFox were published by Mozilla Foundation itself.

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Schedular, Task manager are not useful? funny isn't it
please give me WHY Thunderbird is superior?? I have also used both please give me features WHY?
Who says they are not? But, use PIM for that. What you are talking about is complete Office suite. If you are so keen on those, I suggest, check out Evolution.

Thunderbird extensions make it so powerful, It's UI is clean, its organization of data is far better, I can insert quick text, my HTML mail doesn't add microsoft specifc style sheets, it supports message faces, it has news reader which Outlook 2003 does not have (uses Express for that, what a pity for a mail/news reader), live feeds, RSS, supports global/local inbox, I can check my yahoo/gmail in Thunderbird, do signature switch by toggling a key, use multiple accounts to switch easily, colored quotations for plain text, remove duplicate messages, and much more.

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And with Automatic Updates on there is no need to worry about any update.
Refer to same thread, when Cheatingdeath complained about automatic updates. I have (surely many others) faced similar problems in past, when things break down instead of patching up. No problem currently though. Even on corporate level, people dont automatically install all updates. They have SUS where they download all updates and push selected patches to client systems.

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They are giving it for free because they care for users who don't have access to highspeed internet connection.
They should care more about releasing more secure product in first place. I have nothing against MS, and they are the best in UI and seamless cross-product integrations. But fact remains that IE sucks.

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And as for Open source not affording that is the whole point MS has far better resources than any of its competitor
Better resources? Sure, when it comes to marketing, law suits and killing other products.

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they are simply giving it because they want your who have paid for 32bit but have 64but processor get maximum advantage
Your resource rich company is lagging far behind. 64 bit systems like AS/400 exist since ages. Even Linux has them.

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Linux on Desktop. Thats the best joke ever
You may take it as joke, but MS is not. No wonder, they are spending like hell in anti-Open Source propaganda. Neither is IBM think-tank idiot, which has recently started heavily funding open source projects. One of the major problem why linux market share does not seem to raise is because it is freely available. You dont need to purchase a license from anyone. So, out of 4 installations, only 1 installation is registered. But, again we are drifting into separate topic, i.e. MS v/s Linux.
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Old 12th May 2005, 15:08   #34
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Originally Posted by adya33
Linux on Desktop. Thats the best joke ever
Linux on desktop is just a joke! pure joke
The best OS on desktop is OS 10.4 a.k.a. Tiger by Apple computers
Why do you think Linux desktop is a joke?

I have used Redhat and SUSE for many years and I didn't find them to be a joke. Yes, some applications written by some individuals suck, but that doesn't make it a bad desktop.

Nobody, not even microsoft considers Linux desktop as a joke.

I am not only using Linux as a desktop, but also have started trying my hands on Solaris 10 now. I have it on my AMD64 Acer Ferarri 3400 laptop and it is working brilliantly.
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Old 12th May 2005, 15:35   #35
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Just packaging differently (that too minor differences) doesn't make different browsers.
again your choice. they are two different browser who have same rendering engine. Period

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About doubts on open source QA, the "extremely critical" defects in FireFox were published by Mozilla Foundation itself.
now be prepare to reinstall all broken extensions
& next week get ready to download setup 4.5MB again.
4 major updates within few months after launch with user base less than 10%
give attention to figures cause numbers talk

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Who says they are not? But, use PIM for that. What you are talking about is complete Office suite. If you are so keen on those, I suggest, check out Evolution.
give me windows port of Evolution & then lets do the talking (cause Windows is what is used widely in corporate environment) also how likely is it that a guy buying new PC will go for Linux? (talking about joe user again)


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They should care more about releasing more secure product in first place. I have nothing against MS, and they are the best in UI and seamless cross-product integrations. But fact remains that IE sucks.
Typical what open source freak would say.
If you are pointing fingers at MS then how come vulnarabilieties are found in open source software?
fact is that no matter how software is produces (closed/open source) vulnarabilities will still be there

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Better resources? Sure, when it comes to marketing, law suits and killing other products.
is there anything wrong with competing with others & using your resources to win competition, I don't think so. Its upto the small company to come up with its unique ways to compete with big companies
also u do know that almost all of the open source freaks work with software companies full time (including MS) & work for open source in spare time.


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Your resource rich company is lagging far behind. 64 bit systems like AS/400 exist since ages. Even Linux has them.
Sure lots of technologies have been around for ages but what about public availibility?
It was untill AMD came with their 64bit processor that is when a normal user was able to buy a 64bit hardware (Intel followed later on)
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Old 12th May 2005, 15:37   #36
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Originally Posted by adya33

Linux on Desktop. Thats the best joke ever
2001 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2002 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2003 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2004 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
2005 : This is the year of Linux on Desktop
this just goes on & on & on
Linux on desktop is just a joke! pure joke

The best OS on desktop is OS 10.4 a.k.a. Tiger by Apple computers
Adya are you currently running Tiger on your apple? There cant be many of those around.

How many desktop versions of Linux have you used? I've tried quite a few - some suck, some are good, others are damn good. I personally like the Live CD Linux OS which you can carry on your CD like the Knoppix or Slax.
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Old 12th May 2005, 15:52   #37
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Originally Posted by deepakhon
Why do you think Linux desktop is a joke?

I have used Redhat and SUSE for many years and I didn't find them to be a joke. Yes, some applications written by some individuals suck, but that doesn't make it a bad desktop.

Nobody, not even microsoft considers Linux desktop as a joke.

I am not only using Linux as a desktop, but also have started trying my hands on Solaris 10 now. I have it on my AMD64 Acer Ferarri 3400 laptop and it is working brilliantly.
Whenever I am talking about use I am always considering JOE user & not GEEKS

As for linux it all starts with fonts
it isn't as good a Windows but slowly getting there
then theres boot manager if you configure it correctly then fine or else you are screwed
next comes packages... there are 3 to 4 types of packaging schemes for Linux so downloading software from Linux section won't be enough. Check which packages are available to download then select your appropriate one & then you go

also the big big big problem is CHOICE OF PACKAGES it may be said that it gives you wide veriety but it is also killing it
firstly there are lots and lots and lots of choices which will simply confuse JOE user.
too much of option can give you a headache
then comes where did I saved my files? where are myfiles /user /dev /hdd where to search?????
then comes DRIVERS

and starting computers how much time does it takes to start a computer?


as for Red Hat its unability to play MP3 files out of box. there may be legle issues but then again JOE user doesn't care he just wants to play the damn song!

using Linux feel like lots of pieces joint together & it lacks the integrated feel

but then agian some people like lemons & some like oranges
it just matter of choice

haven't used Solaris yet so can't really comment
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Old 12th May 2005, 15:54   #38
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Dear Adya33, now you have drifted whole attention to Linux vs MS, which I have been trying to avoid since beginning. Not because I dont want to discuss, but because it is too lengthy topic to discuss in THIS forum. Create another thread if you want to, but in a software technology forum and not Automotive forum. I'll be more than glad to join you there.

We started off by discussing Netscape == FireFox, IE vs FireFox, Thunderbird vs Outlook. In that respect, I have answered all your questions. If you want to blindly believe IE is better than FireFox, please go ahead and do that. But, dont claim than IE 6.0 is safer and better than FireFox. Same holds good for Thunderbird vs outlook. I have given answers to all questions raised by you, with due justification. One last comment! When FireFox releases new versions, they are feature enhancements and bug fixes, while when IE releases it is security defects fixed.

BTW, go through *any* market survey of your choice, you will see dropping market share of IE. Some surveys claiming that Gecko based browsers have almost taken over IE (which you will rubbish as open source freaks). All this, when just 2 years ago, IE had more than 95% market share.

So, I am closing the topic from my side. T-BHPians can form their opinions based on the discussion so far.
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Old 12th May 2005, 15:57   #39
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Originally Posted by Steeroid
Adya are you currently running Tiger on your apple? There cant be many of those around.

How many desktop versions of Linux have you used? I've tried quite a few - some suck, some are good, others are damn good. I personally like the Live CD Linux OS which you can carry on your CD like the Knoppix or Slax.
no man I wish I was using Apple.
one of my friend has it & I use it quite a lot

I have used quite a few Linux distros
every distro (& infact every OS) sucks in its own way, its just a matter of choosing one which sucks the less accroding to your use.

I have used knopnix great concept. really nice can be a great rescue disk, thankfully never had to use it

Last edited by adya33 : 12th May 2005 at 16:16.
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Old 12th May 2005, 16:14   #40
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Originally Posted by RX135
Dear Adya33, now you have drifted whole attention to Linux vs MS, which I have been trying to avoid since beginning. Not because I dont want to discuss, but because it is too lengthy topic to discuss in THIS forum. Create another thread if you want to, but in a software technology forum and not Automotive forum. I'll be more than glad to join you there.

We started off by discussing Netscape == FireFox, IE vs FireFox, Thunderbird vs Outlook. In that respect, I have answered all your questions. If you want to blindly believe IE is better than FireFox, please go ahead and do that. But, dont claim than IE 6.0 is safer and better than FireFox. Same holds good for Thunderbird vs outlook. I have given answers to all questions raised by you, with due justification. One last comment! When FireFox releases new versions, they are feature enhancements and bug fixes, while when IE releases it is security defects fixed.

BTW, go through *any* market survey of your choice, you will see dropping market share of IE. Some surveys claiming that Gecko based browsers have almost taken over IE (which you will rubbish as open source freaks). All this, when just 2 years ago, IE had more than 95% market share.

So, I am closing the topic from my side. T-BHPians can form their opinions based on the discussion so far.
nobody is blindly beliving in IE being better than Firefox rather I was defending IE & all the acusations made at IE
fact is it is a wonderful browser & I am saying this after using both of 'em for a long time (though my favorite is Opera)

as for updates having new features I would suggest you take a look at current change log

as for FF lets wait few years till all the buzz gets settled & lets see what comes out !

but then again it all comes down to what you need & what you are comfortable with.

anyways it was nice debating with you.
Haven't had such a good debate with anyone for a long time
may be we can continue this at Pune Meetup?
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Old 12th May 2005, 16:20   #41
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Originally Posted by adya33
anyways it was nice debating with you.
Haven't had such a good debate with anyone for a long time
may be we can continue this at Pune Meetup?
As promised in last post, I wont continue this debate now. I seem to be getting into too many debates. Had another one with GTO recently.

Yep, we should continue Linux vs MS in next Pune meet (and hope, we wont get kicked in our respective butts by others ) I don't drink, but if you do, I'll buy you a beer.
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