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Old 16th August 2012, 19:14   #31
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Default Re: Stem Cells

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Originally Posted by rajesh1868 View Post
@zoombiee,

If the twins are identical, then you can go ahead with one. If not, it is advised to store both but still you can go ahead with just one. The probability of a match that sibling gets, iirc is more than 50%.
I dont think that statement is completely true. You could have one sibling with a genetic disorder even with identical twins. Having the other twins stem cells will make sure that could be overcome (with future technology). The stem cells stored will rarely be beneficial for the kid who donates them. It will be for the sibling or other family members.
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Old 1st October 2012, 11:50   #32
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Default Re: Stem Cells

Has any one used StemCyte India for Stem Cell harvesting?
My wife is 34 Weeks pregnant and we are planning to have the delivery in Apollo and it looks like StemCyte is one of their partners. Hence would like to get any feedback of this org.
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Old 13th October 2012, 15:18   #33
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Default Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

Hi Everyone,

I am due soon to become proud father of my second baby (Just a few weeks away). Now as me and my wife prepare for the event, we are also planning to bank the stem cell (Cord Blood and Umbilical Cord) of the newborn and have gone though 3 service provider till now
CyroBankIndia
Lifecellindia
Cordlifeindia

i find the pricing to be similar and finding them claiming to be the best. Now all these claims have confused me so far and was looking for advice from Bhpian if anybody have used any one of them and can provide a feedback.
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Old 13th October 2012, 15:28   #34
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I used Lifecell when my kid was born. Can't tell about the others, but they give you an option of a one time payment, which is quite convenient. But be warned, umbilical cord stem cell therapies are no where in sight, and for all you know, they may be leap frogged by developments that allow scientists to turn skin cells etc into stem cells. So the odds that your kid or it's sibling benefit from this are very low - so take this up only if the amount you are spending is chump change for you.
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Old 13th October 2012, 17:06   #35
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

I hope i should never need to use them. But it's always better to have a piece of my mind (atleast i know i am future ready).
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Old 13th October 2012, 17:59   #36
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

We got this for our son who was born last year. Went in for this from Lifecell as there are some developments on the space with some good results. We spoke to a few docs known to us too and they recco'ed we go for it if we could afford it.

We hope we never have to use them, but in case we do, we know we will never regret the decision.
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Old 13th October 2012, 19:03   #37
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

I was in same boat around a year and a half ago. ready with the cheque but thanks to correct input and correct time I refused to go for the same.

1-> none of the facilities are proven and give long term gurantees
2-> search online, consumer complaints..

and a few things, that a doctor (in relation) we knocked our door for his advise.
1-> if this is such a good thing why doesn't govenment publicize it.
2-> if you got a genetic issue then its same genes be it at time of birth or otherwise
3-> The quantity of cells, preservations specially coz in india conditions where electricity issues etc are a lot a big issue
4-> age of 20 - 25 is usually not the age you will require it, mainly at 40+
5-> parents, sibilings usually match. check out the number of stem cells success stories vs bone marrow stuff (source of stem cells from sibling)
6-> in developed countries, if this was too much promissing would have been made mandatory.
7-> reliance some time ago was a public bank (ur cells can be given to others) but gone private now (ur cells only for you) WHY?? coz in public bank the one who needs pay for it but in private one who is preserving pays for it (read demand case)
8-> why none of the big corporate dealing in genetics into it. all the companies have tieup with some other foreign company and they are not ready for co-location storing (get the cells, split them into 2 and store some in india and some in US) if required merge the two and give it to us. but the answer is NO even if you are ready to pay 10 times.

in short, please pay me the money.. i will act that those precious stuff is stored securely and when you will ask for me (the contract would be over) or i will say sorry the count was low or say the sample gone bad last week and now not usable

I hope you got the message, however i am not asking you not to go for stem cell preservations however though i said its just a few 20-30% extra for delivery can secure my child's future however i still decided not to go for stem cells preservation after hearing from horses mouth (a doc himself who called in front of me to other docs and each and every one saying not to go for it and they themselves did not go for it for their kids)

Last edited by amit_arya : 13th October 2012 at 19:04.
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Old 13th October 2012, 21:34   #38
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by abbey4u View Post
Hi Everyone,

I am due soon to become proud father of my second baby (Just a few weeks away). ...
Dear Abbey many congratulations to you and your wife (or husband) !

I thought about the same thing almost 2 yrs ago and did a lot of search and do have something to add here, though Amit_arya beat me to it.

Anyway, let me take Amit's post (I agree to most of it) to put my comments:


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post
...


1-> none of the facilities are proven and give long term gurantees
2-> search online, consumer complaints..
aboslutely true espcially in Indian context. Simplest of mistakes (not maintaining a cold chain to the facility or a prolonged power failure) can render the samples useless, even if they were useful in the first place - and this is a big question-mark.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post
and a few things, that a doctor (in relation) we knocked our door for his advise.
1-> if this is such a good thing why doesn't govenment publicize it.

Actually the NHS in UK does it by default for all babies born there. However that is not for the benefit of your baby or even anybody in your family - the samples go into a stem-cell-bank from where anybody in UK can get the cells.

This is very different from the advertised use case, in a cell-bank even if your sample is not useful, some other sample may be. Plus you don't have to pay unless you eventually use it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post
2-> if you got a genetic issue then its same genes be it at time of birth or otherwise
If you read the advertising carefully, almost nowhere do they claim to help your baby - they claim to help the siblings if those are form with genetic issues. For the baby from whom the cells are extracted, the procedure has very little value (read further).

The problem is the samples may not have much value for even siblings - the amount of samples is too small, and alternatives like bone-marrow transplant take care of almost all cases. Plus technology has been advancing very fast in this field for last few years (since Obama came to power - Bush had cut funding for all research and tried to put roadblocks for researchers using outside funding) and recently even skin cells were "fooled"into behaving like stem cells. Chances are within a decade this technology will have next to no utility.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post
3-> The quantity of cells, preservations specially coz in india conditions where electricity issues etc are a lot a big issue
4-> age of 20 - 25 is usually not the age you will require it, mainly at 40+

I touched upon these in the above, but the age issue is particularly important - the storage companies do not promise more than 25yrs because frankly it is not known whether the cells will be good after even 20yrs in the freezer.

In the west, it is different - they put the cells in a bank from where anyone else can take the cells as well (and your child can take someone else's cells) - i.e. chances are they will be used before "expiry". This is not the advertised usecase and since neither you can receive someone else's cells nor someone else can receive yours in the Indian context, this is serious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post

5-> parents, sibilings usually match. check out the number of stem cells success stories vs bone marrow stuff (source of stem cells from sibling)
6-> in developed countries, if this was too much promissing would have been made mandatory.
Making it mandatory is possible nly in coutries like China, but in UK unless the parents specifically request not to do it, this is done by default. In US and most of the west it is highly encouraged. However they store it in a bank -read my comments above. In all such cases the facility is provided free, the user of the cells (not the donor) has to pay at the time of use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post
7-> reliance some time ago was a public bank (ur cells can be given to others) but gone private now (ur cells only for you) WHY?? coz in public bank the one who needs pay for it but in private one who is preserving pays for it (read demand case)
This is the other point - in west the demand is coming in countries with govt. run healthcare, almost entirely in the form of a stem cell bank. That is subsidised by the state and so the donor doesn't pay.

In India the donor (i.e. you) end up paying a lot of money for questionable benefits to you, and in fact to anybody else.

Now the potential benefits are real enough for the state to provide a subsidy, especially because done at a large scale this is not that expensive either.

However to store your own cells without subsidy means the benefits have to be better than "potential" - that is not a settled questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post
8-> why none of the big corporate dealing in genetics into it. all the companies have tieup with some other foreign company and they are not ready for co-location storing (get the cells, split them into 2 and store some in india and some in US) if required merge the two and give it to us. but the answer is NO even if you are ready to pay 10 times.
well actually this is neither a good idea nor feasible (legal issues), but more importantly this is off topic.

I think amit is trying to point out here that the sincerity of these companies is questionable, and that I agree to.

They are asking you to pay now, while the cells are good for 20+ years according to them. Now what happens if they go bankrupt in next 5yrs? Are they putting part of your money in bank so the next acquirer can take care of the cells?

Chances of something like a bankruptcy happening to these comapnies are far higher than chances that something bad will happen to your child (though in a large population chances that something will happen to somebody, are fairly high)


Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_arya View Post

in short, please pay me the money.. i will act that those precious stuff is stored securely and when you will ask for me (the contract would be over) or i will say sorry the count was low or say the sample gone bad last week and now not usable
...


The worst part at the end
-

While the chances of the sample being useful to your baby or her siblings in future are between slim to none, there is a great chance that the baby might be hurt in the present thanks to the procedure:

To get a reasonably good amount of sample doctors are known to clamp the umbilical cord quickly after the baby is delivered. This cuts the flow of blood (the same one you want to store) and raises the odds of childhood anemia heavily.

There have been studies linking the time (shortness of it) the doctor took to cut the umbilical cord to childhood anemia - effects persists for years after birth.

Several countries are now asking their doctors to wait for a few minutes after birth before cutting the cord, the problem is this also means hardly any storable stem-cell sample remains.

Once again - for countries that bank the samples the above is not a problem, because the usecases are so rare that even if a small percentage of babies yield a good sample, then over a large population a good enough amount of sample may be collected - this is not the scenario for you.


Any good (or at least honest) doctor will tell you that the companies operating in India give the exact opposite of the above advice - cut the cord quickly to get as much sample as possible. I guess that is why Amit_Arya's doctor told him NOT to do it. We must really admire such doctors because there is a cut they get from the money you are paying.



On final note - I came to know about this before becoming a father two years ago. I spent weeks trawling for information, learning new terminology and what not and bothered my relatives (most are doctors) so much some of them stopped taking my calls for some time - ultimately I decided not to do the procedure - not because it was expensive but because I just didn't want to take a chance of extra complications done by a doctor in a hurry to get some stem cells.

I believe I made the right decision.
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Old 13th October 2012, 22:02   #39
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

Hi Vina

thanks, your response make me more comfortable that i also made the write decision

I just wanted to clarify one point which (i think) is probably mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vina View Post


well actually this is neither a good idea nor feasible (legal issues), but more importantly this is off topic.

I think amit is trying to point out here that the sincerity of these companies is questionable, and that I agree to.

They are asking you to pay now, while the cells are good for 20+ years according to them. Now what happens if they go bankrupt in next 5yrs? Are they putting part of your money in bank so the next acquirer can take care of the cells?

Chances of something like a bankruptcy happening to these comapnies are far higher than chances that something bad will happen to your child (though in a large population chances that something will happen to somebody, are fairly high)
See my idea was, these 3-4 companies have cell preservation centers at Mumbai, Chennai (and not sure bangalore / HYD). my concern was if its chennai and a tsumani hits or if the facility is struck my bomb (during war) or earthquake etc then atleast some stem cells should be preserved.

the sales person said that way the count of stem cells would be too less to help your kid. at that time i said ok you can always merge the two collections and it gives me some protection over the complete sample getting destroyed due to some local event in the center or in the city the center is present.

i also asked them, i am willing for annual preservation if every year they can provide me a report on the condition of stem cells and on that too they gave a negative reply saying "sir the could of cells would decrease on each testing and it would be useless after 2-3 years"

see all excuses, you would end up paying for the something whose quality can also not be judged at any time except when its a real emergency and you want to use it.

Regards
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Old 14th October 2012, 00:18   #40
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

Thanks for valuable insight. After i went for their presentation and my questionnaire, here's few information i got

a) Cordlife provides dual storage (Calcutta and Singapore), Lifecell in Chennai and Cyrobank in Gurgaon
b) Cord blood can't be multiplied whereas umbilical cord tissue ( Mesenchymal (MSCs) cells ) can be multiplied and expanded. However treatment from cord blood is only proven until now (example cancer). Treatment using Umbilical cord is still in research and has potential of treating skin disease and things like diabetes. Again few operation for diabetes has been done in pune and PGI chandigarh but things are still in observation before they claim the success.

c) In case of failure to preserve samples they are going to provide cells from various public banks across the world and if they fail to provide from their own network they will pay around 15 Lac, so that one can purchase from different service provider. I know money will never be able to compensate the loss but the clause generally speaks of confidence.

d) Cordlife claims to provide necessary sample to the whole family (not just the child or sibling) free of cost from their banking network if the HLA doesn't match between parent and child. So i guess this means it will be helpful for parents too.

e) They have multiple accredition and certification from AABB/CAP/WHO GMP Standard etc.

I have asked all three of them to send me a copy of service agreement so i go through the fine prints before deciding to go for it.

I think its fairly new and a lot of research is still going on and with science enhancing itself every passing day, who knows by the time 20 years passes, they can then able to come up cure of many disease and may be able to preserve a little longer. I know there's a lot of uncertainty about the potentials of this technology and stem cells, but why not if i can afford to. The only concern is immediate affect to new born and i will make sure i am convinced about the child safety before i commit to it else i will back out. I am going to speak to few doctors including docs at fortis and Apollo before i take any step towards this.
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Old 14th October 2012, 07:37   #41
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I don't see any safety issue. Our doctor at Breach Candy was fairly skeptical about the upside from the stem cell banking (his reaction was, "If you want to waste your money, I can't stop you"), but told us that there would be no harm whatsoever to the child from that.
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Old 14th October 2012, 08:03   #42
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

When my daughter was born, I took advice of a doctor heavily involved in stem cell research. He opined that soon technology will evolve and it would be possible to find stem cells from body / tissues and there won't be any need to revert to umbilical cord for these cells. Also he mentioned that the science of using stem cells to help humanity is not yet full proof though is developing fast and hence not sure if these stem cells could be used effectively.

He also mentioned that stem cell preservation is sort of fad among IT couples as many companies used to provide 1st installment earlier years.

Hence no harm in investing but only time would tell if it is going to be useful in'vest'ment or waste.

I did not preserve same for my daughter as my wife delivered suddenly in few days thereafter and had no time in hand. But if it would have been possbile, I would have preserved. C'mon we spend 30-40K on seat covers!
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Old 14th October 2012, 09:22   #43
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

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Originally Posted by abbey4u View Post
c) In case of failure to preserve samples they are going to provide cells from various public banks across the world and if they fail to provide from their own network they will pay around 15 Lac, so that one can purchase from different service provider.
Why not buy it from different networks across the world when you actually require it rather than banking it?
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Old 14th October 2012, 12:17   #44
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

my ten cents on this from a medical perspective. ill divide it into 3 parts
1 what are stem cells
2 why are they so hyped
3 should they be banked.
most of you know the basics so kindly correct me if i mistype and those are still confused please use me and pubmed.com for clarifications.


1) every one here knows that all life generates from one cell- ZYGOTE half of moms genes and half of dads.
the genetic matter get expressed and the cell multiplication begins. everything is the same until few thousand replications later where the cell- start to differentiate much like a spurned lover who becomes a villain.
this process is due to the various ways in which genes express themselves. slowly the mouth-anus cavity is formed in the center of double walled tube with three distinct layers, each layer again differentiates into further compoments- skin, organs, hair, heart, ets, i mean sab ka maalik ek. everything comes from the same single cell.
these are called totipotent (omnipotent in cell world) because with the right mixture of enzymes and nutrients it is possible to deferentially grow all kinds of cells.

2)stem cells are hyped because even in experimental phases they have shown remarkable results. recently a kid who throat was injured permanently received a throat transplant which can never be done normally due to host vs graft reactions. however coating them stemcells saved the day. right now stem cells are like a box of lego bricks . everyone know you can make wonderful stuff from them . and is ever changing. just too much utility.

3) should they be banked.??
many here are expressing that 20-25 years isnt enough and no one gets sick in that time.
thats a wrong way of looking at this.
because mounds of growing research data suggest that stem cell lines have lots of uses..right from replacing marrow in leukemic kids to even generating new limbs.
it will take atleast 2-3 decades for this technology to become commercially viable .
or else for teh emergence of a new tech
calle De-differentiation the goal here is to reduce full mature cell lines into stem cells again to help them multiply however it is atleast 25-50 years away for successful and large scale implementation.

so the end line is that if you can afford it or if you already have a kid for whom this wasnt done. please get cord blood banked. if you may never use it thats great news. if you have to use it you shall be very very glad that you did save them.
remember that it rains only when we dont carry umbrellas.
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Old 14th October 2012, 16:16   #45
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Default Re: Stem Cell Banking in India : Advice Needed

We already have a thread for this http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...tem-cells.html (Stem Cells)
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