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Old 3rd June 2005, 14:36   #16
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You asked and answered your own question.
Exactly my point. If a general view goes against a certain manufacturer, theres nothing biased about it. It's not one person saying that, but majority of the members.

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Last edited by Shan2nu : 3rd June 2005 at 14:37.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 14:49   #17
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Some people like it black, and some like it white. Differences of opinion will exist, and a community is as much about opinion as it is about facts.

As mentioned previously, no one has a bias with vested interests. If I dont like a particular company (whether automotive or otherwise), I sure as hell am vocal about it. Some people are cheesed off with Hyundais attitude toward blatantly copying the Accords rear end...some are with Fiats management skills (or the lack of) etc. etc. Why must they not be honest about how they feel!!

The thread opener has a good point with Mitsubishi. But the difference is that Mitsubishi isnt directly there in India - They have not even invested a single $$$. It is debatable whether riding on the back of one of Indias oldest car companies may have given them an advantage. But do you think that HM may abandon India due to mounting losses? No one really talks about the Lancer as much as the Palio and Petra due to lack of interest. Hell, the mumbai showroom sells only 4 cars a month! The current lancer is just too outdated to speak about and mention in most automotive discussions.

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Old 3rd June 2005, 14:57   #18
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There is nothing wrong having strong +ve or -ve individual opinion about any car or manufacturer. But it should not be "fanatical" or "ill-logical" as Steer pointed out. One such example that quickly comes to mind is, recent polls on hatchbacks and small cars. I guess, one was deleted by Mods, since I could not find it later. (I am NOT picking on anyone by giving that example. So, nothing personal!)
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Old 3rd June 2005, 15:02   #19
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You cant call it a bias, its just that a lot of people dont like it when some companies do some things, thats all. This is the only place where we can be frank about our opinions, so actually this is the place where you really can see what the right people think about the car makers.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 15:15   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by islero
This is the only place where we can be frank about our opinions, so actually this is the place where you really can see what the right people think about the car makers.
Maybe off-topic, but I wouldn't completely agree with that statement. There are lots of other places (e.g. dedicated Yahoo groups) where you can really see what the right people (read real owners) think about the car makers.

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Old 3rd June 2005, 15:50   #21
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Many people here hate FIAT. But then many people here love Palio and Petra. So the ias is towards which side? BTW, I don't think people really care about Mitsubishi to hate it
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Old 3rd June 2005, 16:07   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Minardi
Many people here hate FIAT. But then many people here love Palio and Petra. So the ias is towards which side?
Fiat car and Fiat Management come as "Love me-Hate me" combo offer. You choose, what you want.

Last edited by RX135 : 3rd June 2005 at 16:11.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 17:13   #23
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on this page FIAT has got 12* mentions
MITSUBISHI has got 8*



now ...... what could that mean ? conspiracy theories anyone ?








* approx figures ... do you seriously think i have the time to count and check !!

Last edited by Mad Monkey : 3rd June 2005 at 17:16.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 20:03   #24
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I would really suggest that you look at some of the forums setup by 1st world countries. A certain movie review site which is also a haven for movie downloads ( i won't take names, but will give you enough clues to figure out for yourself) has members who literally take to doing personal attacks on each other. And those posts hang around, never deleted, maintained for the entertainment of the world.

The largest forum for the 3 pointed star has members of a similar variety. Go ahead and read such forums, the bias is so evident and in your face, you'll rather consider yourself lucky that you are spending time on this forum rather than those.

My point is, we, TB moderators and members cannot bend somebody's opinion out here. If someone holds an opinion, fine respect it. Pushing your choice or opinion down one's throat is a serious no-no.

Fiat is a victim of its own policies. It can't be unnoticed. Owners have borne the brunt, people visiting their dealerships have seen through their problems, have read on the status of the company. Opinion by any individual here is not formed on the basis of one piece of information. It builds over time.

Of-course at the end of the day, if you genuinely feel that someone's opinion is valid enough, to hold it to be your own, fine. So whom should we blame here.. the opinion maker or the opinion acceptor?

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Old 3rd June 2005, 21:19   #25
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well, all of you are right in your own specific ways, i guess.... as for me, i love all machines, almost equally; even the mighty jag and the humble 800, the bajaj boxer ct and the ninja zx-12R....believe it or not..!!! i think that all machines are great in their own respects, and it's only when you compare, that you find faults, gremlins and drawbacks.

so, basically, opinions are good, and that's what keeps the world rolling- if everybody just liked hyundai or chevrolet, then what would be the point?? but one does tend to bias towards a certain manufacturer due to some attachments, or qualities that he might have found endearing, and that's quite normal- it's only when you get obsessive, that the problem creeps up. like somebody said, "when you point one figer at someone, there are three are pointed at you"... so, being a little biased towards a particular company might be okay, but that shouldn't lead to bashing others...; somebody stated the example of hyundai badmouthing others, instead of focussing on the plus points of the excellent products that it has- which backfired. so, a gentle biasing to the extent of affection is good, but not obsession.

and like revv pointed out, this is a great forum here, and we all love it- it's almost like automotive nirvana out here, like having a second home... and i too, think that this forum is way better than others; some of us might have strong opinions, but i don't think anyone here intends to hurt other's feelings, intentionally or unintentionally; we are a family, after all.... of course, these are my views..(he..he..)..
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Old 3rd June 2005, 22:37   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvmaster
My point is, we, TB moderators and members cannot bend somebody's opinion out here. If someone holds an opinion, fine respect it. Pushing your choice or opinion down one's throat is a serious no-no.

Fiat is a victim of its own policies. It can't be unnoticed. Owners have borne the brunt, people visiting their dealerships have seen through their problems, have read on the status of the company. Opinion by any individual here is not formed on the basis of one piece of information. It builds over time.
Revv
True....i don't believe in bending opinions or brainwashing. I also understand that every member has a right to love or hate a certain brand or product, because love or hate is highly individual.

but it is the blanket statements, which sometimes are without basis or requisite personal experience backing them, that worry me as a member. why does it worry me ? because i look to the content in this forum to provide me some value addition with respect to my knowledge on the indian car scene.

While what you have mentioned about FIAT is definitely true, is it not also true that a number of FIAT bashing posts are by members who make casual statements have never owned a FIAT or experienced a bad FIAT dealer ? There are examples here where in certain threads, people just jump in from no where and advise members to *CHANGE THEIR PURCHASE DECISION AND CHOOSE SOMETHING OTHER THAN FIAT* even though the decision to purchase FIAT was already made and the thread was not about requesting for advise on a purchase decision. do you not feel that is pushing it?

my worry is what fellow member Steeroid has perfectly stated:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid
Yes, me worry because we are all members of the forum. The image the forum projects to the world outside is a reflection of the posts here, which is a sum total of our opinions - if some or all the members show bias, the forum will be viewed as biased and vice versa.

This place is what we all make of it, so we must worry if someone perceives a certain tilt in its opinions.
It is not that I am personally offended by any bias or opinion. But I personally have gained something from being in this forum. There are many other members like me who are totally blank when it comes to their car purchase decisions. When they hit here for help, does a post like the example one I described above help her/him or does it enhance the credibility of the forum?

thats all I wanted to put across. love or hate is fine. you do not need a valid or logical reason to love or hate a person, product or brand.

but advise does need to be logical and based on personal experience and/or concrete information.

on a side note, there have been too many of purely speculatory posts here on the future of FIAT and their cars. have to say I admire the sense of conviction the new FIAT owners have displayed in sticking to their guns (without being vocal about it) and going for what they felt was right.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 22:52   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
Why don't you go to this page and check out my post. I posted that at 12:19 today which was before you posted your "bias based thread" at 12:22.

The car manufacturer i hate

Shan2nu
i did not see that thread shan2nu. but like i have mentioned in just my previous post, love/hate opinions are not what my original thread was about, nor do those concern me. i was referring to how sometimes unjustified statements and unsolicited opinions/advise, that too, out of context, could affect the judgement making process of a car buyer and turn him away from a product/brand, which might in fact be the best suited for her/him, especially if the concerned buyer is not very well acquainted with cars and techincal aspects in genenral or the indian car scene in particular.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 23:40   #28
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Quote:
i was referring to how sometimes unjustified statements and unsolicited opinions/advise, that too, out of context, could affect the judgement making process of a car buyer and turn him away from a product/brand, which might in fact be the best suited for her/him,
How can somebody decide what's best for you? On a recent post, SMG mentioned that he read (on a Palio forum), someone mentioning that the NHC was beaten by a hill. God knows how many such insane stories have been written on other forums but, do you see a drop in NHC sales? Bottom line is that people don't care, if you say a car is bad, he'l test drive it for himself and then decide.

Many say the OHC had a pathetic interior, that's ok cos atleast i didn't choose it for it's interior.

Can you give us some examples of biased comments made by our members. I'd like to see those statements, that made you think so.

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Old 3rd June 2005, 23:43   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hell_rider
especially if the concerned buyer is not very well acquainted with cars and techincal aspects in genenral or the indian car scene in particular.
If that is the case then that concerned buyer should welcome each and every input that is flowing in. Given a particular car, 10 different opinions are possible depending on the way one looks at that car.

If my intension is sell that car within 3 years then I would be more concerned about its 'Resale value', and if I want to keep that car for more than 5 years then 'After sales support' , 'Spare parts cost' etc will influence my decison.

If I am a family person then I would pay attension to Safty features, rear seat comfort rather than BHP and 0-100 benchmarks.

If I want it for week end trips, highway driving then I would be checking some different aspects.

It is up to the buyer to decide his/her priorities and weigh each such input accordingly. By expressing opinios nobody is forcing taht concerned buyer to buy or reject a car. If one doesn't like that, then s/he should be better off with the sales talk offered at a car dealership.
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Old 3rd June 2005, 23:50   #30
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This really isnt a matter of bias - it is simply a case of several individuals voicing their own, individual opinions.

The fact that there are several Hyundai & Fiat bashers does speak volumes of how these individuals feel about these manufacturers and their products - and thats that.

By the way, I own a Fiat myself, a Palio GTX and I absolutely love it. That doesn't necessarily mean I love Fiat. And yes, Hyundai does need to 'get a life' and get more original.
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