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Old 11th June 2009, 14:14   #226
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Thanks guys for the suggestions. About late nights, one doesnt know wht kind of part time job i'll get there. But, as suggested, a car would be a better option if its a night shift part time.

Keep the pointers coming...
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Old 11th June 2009, 14:25   #227
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hey Zero with all due respect there is a thread on relocation. You can post your concerns there. further posts in this matter may defeat the purpose for this thread. PM me if you have any specific concerns I was in Sydney for 3 years.
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Old 11th June 2009, 14:30   #228
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Rather than taking out swords of words against Australia, lets reason more on what we are.

1) Why do Indians have to go abroad for further studies, mainly Australia ?
a) Getting into even an average college for PG courses is not easy. Always there is influence/contacts, etc. Add to that reserved seats ? Now what is reserved seats ? I call it Racism. If one really wants to help the weak, help them financially not by giving them seats in any institution.

Australia has one of the easiest visa procedures. Its quite easy to get in there. And admissions are also not that difficult as compared to India.

2) Why people settle over there if they have gone in for studies.

a) Life is ( now was ) better. You dont get a million jerks to get to one destination. You have better facilities available as a citizen with better administration. Obviously who will not love to have a peaceful life.

We must accept that we are a poor, unorganized nation with very very poor ( probably the worst ) thinking on earth. We have racism within ourselves. " I have contact so I can solve this problem easily ", " I have money, so no issues, I can get away with anything ", etc. are the reason why we are poor.

60 years after independence, we are still to learn a thing or two about hygiene and discipline. 60 years and we still dont have roads.
People with cars having red line on number plate to indicate that they are associated with government. What is that ? I call it racism.

Lets look into ourselves first and then pinpoint at others. About global citizen or the concept of globalization, we are not into it. China navy will probably the biggest if they continue to expand at the current rate till 2020.

What do we have as a nation in terms of defense equipment ? LCA ? A new tank is built using someone's base and we spend more time naming it.

Its clear that we are not able to stand against this issue because we ourselves are racist and not united.
Australia has a right to act in the way they want. We went there begging, Australia did not come over here to give us an invitation.
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Old 11th June 2009, 14:43   #229
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Someone here mentioned that there are no 'sub-par universities' in Australia. I beg to differ. I went to Deakin , its one of the best (it has some rankings and a HUGE campus , make that several campuses across the nation). I have seen friends who flunked who went to sub-par Unis mainly into catering (cookery as they call it) and know exactly what a sub-par Uni is. Its basically a small building with all Indians or Chinese students. Classes can also be held in Punjabi / Hindi since a lot of lecturers are from here as well. Students end up not attending and simply paying up for the PR points. The recent changes in immigration has put an end to that. The Universities are still thriving, I expect they will be hit in a few months as newer students realise the impact of these changes.

Indians here are not selfish , its just that most of us have no family support and so we must make it a point to look after our own. Rather than big groups get a close number of few friends who help out no matter what. Finally try to find a good person and you will have a good friend. People everywhere are the same, you have a mix of good and bad.

The situation here is improving. Cops are using horse-back police, the air corps , sniffer dogs and continous patrolling to bring down the criminals. It seems to be working and we can actually see a difference on the streets. Its too soon to say anything though and only time can tell. However the issue has come into the mainstream and most Australians are ashamed of these events and sympathise with us. We should not go over board and loose this sympathy from the common man.

We do not lie to get residency to the visa officer. How is a person who has never been to Australia before supposed to know if he / she will settle there after studying ? How can this person predict the future? Thus how can this person be lying ? Australian immigration is clear in allowing students who meet their skills in applying for a residency and staying back. If they dont mind, why do you?

I reserve my comments on moustaches, scratchy balls and sweaty jeans. Its getting hilarious , which its not since people have suffered a lot.

To summarise, make few good friends , if possible before you leave - there are orientation sessions. Make SURE that you are going to a good Uni , trust me theres nothing more important. You are spending a LOT of money. Those Unis which are good are excellent and complete value for money. The country is safe, simply keep safe. If you must work till late / travel early , buy a car. Decent ones which will last out your study trip cost as little as 2000-3000$. Thats less than a single unit's fees (a degree consists of 12-18 units at the minimum). So dont tell me you cant afford it. Finally there is some crime, so dont scream racism if your pocket was picked. The thief really couldnt care less.

Apologies, didnt mean to hurt the feelings anyway.

Among the insults that were being thrown around, Indians getting thrashed, Hinduism getting thrashed, this is what i noticed.

I thought it was okay with the locals , if students from India or China came to study and settled down there. Its surprising that they feel invaded ! I mentioned it thats why.

What you say makes lot of sense, the need to stick to our own because they will only help us out.

And we only smile at people we are familiar with, even at our work places; but those people are happy to smile/and wish if there is a eye contact. Im not saying they are better but thats the way they are. Maybe they view our attitude as a negative.
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Old 11th June 2009, 14:45   #230
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Australia did not come over here to give us an invitation.

Though I agree to whatever else you have said, This sentence is not entirely true. Many Australian Universities come to India to advertise, so that students go join them. So they did come and invite students over.
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Old 11th June 2009, 14:52   #231
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Originally Posted by spadival View Post
I have to respectfully disagree. This thread will showcase the fact that many Indians are mature enough to laugh at themselves and more important, look at themselves in the mirror before pointing fingers at others.
@Spadival: I respect your opinion since you are out there. At the same time, regarding your disagreement, would you also disagree to the fact that often in this thread people are making personal and semi personal attacks on each other rather than discussing the matter? I one hundred percent agree with your statement at the end of the quote. But that was not what I was referring to. Also, it is not as bad, I just pictured some foreigner reading it and thinking "they are still fighting amongst themselves....".
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:03   #232
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Originally Posted by hemanthisgreat View Post
Though I agree to whatever else you have said, This sentence is not entirely true. Many Australian Universities come to India to advertise, so that students go join them. So they did come and invite students over.
+1 I got admission in one such 'Hotel Camps'

By the way the reason they did so and initially started in 1996 when i first got admission there was; the population there was aging and it was not a proper immigrant mix as evident in USA / UK. It was also under the pretext that it shall raise their income by bringing USD to their nation. It benefits a country such as these by having our intelligence utilizing their brains to the benefits of their nation. A nation to be very succesful have always had immigrants. They got there because of immigrants. Once they have met their requirement of particular type of foreign nationals they make the laws more stringent and uninviting.

1. PR was available by only a 1 year Masters degree. Now not.
2. US Student visa to H1B conversion was very easy long ago. now not

Another classic example; USA's major labour force is run by Mexicans. Why? what would happen if all mexicans vanished? Same way IT force is run by Indians. According to me australia did attempt to get there but failed when their immigration laws were not as stringent as USA. This led to refugees from Bangaladesh, Fiji and many other countries. They are also termed as 'DESI'S'. So two wrong people can make it wrong for all others too. So in a nutshell all this was invited by Australia themselves.

Another thing which we forget; aboriginies are the real australians. The whites who claims their ancestors to have been there are actually sons and daughters of prisoners who were let loose on this Island by Queen Elizabeth. Now use your imagination.

Last edited by D-Man : 11th June 2009 at 15:12.
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:03   #233
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami
What do we have as a nation in terms of defense equipment ? LCA ? A new tank is built using someone's base and we spend more time naming it.
Aaggo, lets not start bashing indian forces and the defence capabilities. If You would only read what India is procuring/provisioning to East and South India, You wouldnt be talking them here.
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:27   #234
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Originally Posted by Exhaust_Note View Post
would you also disagree to the fact that often in this thread people are making personal and semi personal attacks on each other rather than discussing the matter? Also, it is not as bad, I just pictured some foreigner reading it and thinking "they are still fighting amongst themselves....".
I agree, but I am sure the mods will clean it up nicely. Just report the posts (including mine if necessary) that contain personal/semi-personal attacks. Of course, this thread seems to present a slightly heavier workload for the mods. But If you call this fighting, you should visit some of the foreign forums.
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Old 11th June 2009, 23:41   #235
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Originally Posted by spadival View Post
I agree, but I am sure the mods will clean it up nicely. Just report the posts (including mine if necessary) that contain personal/semi-personal attacks. Of course, this thread seems to present a slightly heavier workload for the mods. But If you call this fighting, you should visit some of the foreign forums.
Agreed. I accept that I am not too well read on forums other than Microsoft. Hence I rest my argument in this. Regarding reporting I did not find anything wrong in your posts at all. Only a few of us here are letting their emotions get the better of them. And taking the hint from the famous SKODA post where people were getting impatient to get the RS off the header, I am sure the mods are well aware and they have a good reason to let this go the way it is.
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Old 12th June 2009, 00:14   #236
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Originally Posted by kaushik_s View Post
Hope I too haven't hurt your feelings. If so please forgive.
Regards,
Hi Kaushik,

Cut short your quote just to keep this post short.
No you have not hurt my feelings and there is nothing to forgive. We are having a dialogue. When we put up posts, we are exposing ourselves and our posts to criticism, misunderstandings, misinterpretations, but also to agreements, debates etc. As long as there is no intended malice, why ask for forgiveness (even if there is a rider, "if") as seen above. And I really feel that some of our lines have been misinterpreted between us.
But jokes aside, the brutalities were the main concern.

But I do have certain problems, two major being the following:
1) Our media. No further comment, not worth it.
2) Our representatives, like consular staff, government ministers etc.
They just appear to be impotent and ineffective particularly when they should appear to take a stand and show solidarity. Their first priority is not national, it is self. And all their ability works in that direction. So they cannot give 100% for national interest. There are 100's of examples for this. Not only on this issue, but everything starting from sports to defence to foreign affairs to, well almost everything. Some individuals will be an exception, we are talking in general.

My posts, your replies, my comments in return do not make a difference to the situation. I am glad that the problem seems to be abating, and I dare say that a partial reason is the vigilante student groups which were subsequently formed. And the Australians had the sense to finally speak up and move to contol the situation. But if you notice, this seems to have happened after a retaliatory attack. That they could have moved in earlier can be dabated.

But many posts were so hilarious, though the topic we were debating was serious, I had good laughs. But you can see how we differ among ourselves. Within this country we have differences and use degratory terms to folks from other parts of our own country. And we do that mainly within the country. I have seen that in a situation were there are fewer people from the Indian peninsula region, they are very friendly among themselves. But the moment there are many, they divide themselves. Recently in Germany, at a Hotel there was a steward with a tag "Herr Choudhury". I asked him where he came from, he was a Bangladeshi. And he spoke to me in Hindi, spoke the language proudly because HE proudly told me that he can speak Hindi. Our problem starts the moment we have several people of a folk away from home. I know that in Madurai, there is a Gujrat Samaj. But as soon as more Gujju's landed up over there, a second Samaj was formed. You can check this out. And I say shame on them!
If and when we start a thread on Indian behaviour abroad, we will have a real fun thread. I have many many anecdotes. But also remember, there are many, many and many Indians who have really integrated abroad, are respected and sucessfull.
Did we really need to pull ourselves down so much on this thread? Just asking.

Cheers harit

Last edited by harit : 12th June 2009 at 00:17.
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Old 12th June 2009, 12:00   #237
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Hi Harit,
Yeah, there was a communication mis-match within our posts while both of us kind of talking in the same line, it happens very frequently in online communications. Good to know that there is no hard feelings because of this.
Now back to the topic, I'm just hoping that things are simmering down now and pray that it'll never happen again.
Regards,
Kaushik
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Old 13th June 2009, 08:52   #238
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I have been following this thread and also the spree of comments following a few online videos (youtube etc.) of this incident. While it's no doubt a shameful incident, and agreed the local Aussie police were insensitive to it, the fact is that both sides have their flaws to check when it comes to reacting to such situations.
All I can say is, it's much like the Into-pak partition- both sides had played much role in the violence and destruction that followed, both being against each other. It's the same here. They have their flaws, so do we.
Reading the comments like the ones posted here by Aussies as well as Indians in context of this video:

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

just shows how incidents like these bring out the worst in people of both sides. Both are ruled by spite, jealousy, animosity, and can go to the extent of making the most immature comments about one-another, even ignoring the actual serious incident featured, where the actual concern should be justice meted out and punishing the guilty.

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Old 16th June 2009, 10:22   #239
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Originally Posted by Stanher View Post
.
All I can say is, it's much like the Into-pak partition- both sides had played much role in the violence and destruction that followed, both being against each other. It's the same here. They have their flaws, so do we.
Reading the comments like the ones posted here by Aussies as well as Indians in context of this video:
.
I have been following this thread closely and the incidents that happened in Australia. I have refrained myself from posting anything but its about time.

I thought that this might be a case of we being soft targets in AUstralia.
Indians are not big guys and these Aussies are built big and hence we by defatult become soft targets...but hold on a minute why is it that the other Asian students are not being 'robbed & mugged & beaten up' ? Point to ponder.

Another point, I have many friends in Ameria who say they have been mugged, but if they have co-operated they have been let off (in majority of the cases). All of the Aussie attacks did lead in some kind of beating / stabbing / petrol bombs thrown on them, even though according to police all the attacks are robbery attempts ?

@ sambhai, i know you have a very larger and big brother view about Australia, but you just cant ignore all of this. Aussies are RACIST. THey have had it easy all the while, the 'Dollor an Australian' meant that these lazy blokes never had to work so hard, now they are finding the going difficult and Indians there are hard working and taking their jobs. So they are resorting to the only way they know...getting down and dirty.

Here forum members would argue, that because of a few australians you can't name the whole country as racist. But l differ. If it was a one off case, i would have not. Also there have been past incidences of Racist attacks on people from the INdian subcontinent in the past.

Racist attacks grip Australia Read the below incident, it shows how meticulously a 'racist' attack was planned.

Its about time we realized that this is NOT a one off attack, and worse the Aussie governtment wants to play this down.

Thumbs down for the Racist Australians.
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Old 16th June 2009, 11:12   #240
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I think there is a lot of confusion in your mind, no doubt caused by the media circus going on in India about the recent events.

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but you just cant ignore all of this. Aussies are RACIST.

Here forum members would argue, that because of a few australians you can't name the whole country as racist. But l differ. If it was a one off case, i would have not.
Racist attacks grip Australia Read the below incident, it shows how meticulously a 'racist' attack was planned.

Its about time we realized that this is NOT a one off attack, and worse the Aussie governtment wants to play this down.

Thumbs down for the Racist Australians.
I just have a multiple choice question for you.

Who are these racist Australians?

A.)People of Anglo-saxon origin who targeted people of Middle Eastern origin during the Cronulla riots?

B.) People of Middle Eastern origin who attacked people of Indian origin in Harris Park ?

C.) People of Indian origin who then randomly target innocent people of Middle-east/Anglo-Saxon origin in retaliation (described in above article)?

D.) All of the Above.

If your answer is D, then we have reached some understanding of the situation on the ground. But even then, "All of the above" does not cover every resident of Australia - irrespective of whether he/she is black/brown/white. So you still can't call Australia a racist country.

I can cite the numerous riots between various religious/regional forces in India and say India is a racist country. But I will not.

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Originally Posted by ac 427 View Post
.but hold on a minute why is it that the other Asian students are not being 'robbed & mugged & beaten up' ? Point to ponder.
Even the Chinese Govt has complained about attacks on Chinese students. But they did it during the anniversary of Tiananmen square Massacre and hence not many took it seriously. A local newspaper had a cartoon with the caption "How to keep Chinese students safe?", The Answer was "Keep them in Australia"

Last edited by spadival : 16th June 2009 at 11:31.
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